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Author Topic:   WTF is wrong with people
Coyote
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Posts: 6037
Joined: 01-12-2008
Member Rating: 1.6


(1)
Message 436 of 457 (708915)
10-16-2013 11:05 AM
Reply to: Message 435 by Phat
10-16-2013 10:55 AM


Re: A partial summary.
Both may be honest yet both may arrive at differing conclusions.

When scientists have different conclusions they usually turn to the evidence to determine which conclusion is correct.

When believers have different conclusions you often get a schism. That is why there are so many different religions, denominations, sects, etc. today.

Belief is often not subject to evidence.


Religious belief does not constitute scientific evidence, nor does it convey scientific knowledge.

Belief gets in the way of learning--Robert A. Heinlein

How can I possibly put a new idea into your heads, if I do not first remove your delusions?--Robert A. Heinlein

It's not what we don't know that hurts, it's what we know that ain't so--Will Rogers


This message is a reply to:
 Message 435 by Phat, posted 10-16-2013 10:55 AM Phat has not yet responded

  
jar
Member
Posts: 29820
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004
Member Rating: 1.5


Message 437 of 457 (708916)
10-16-2013 11:08 AM
Reply to: Message 435 by Phat
10-16-2013 10:55 AM


Re: A partial summary.
Phat writes:

perhaps, but I dont believe that critical thinking is the same for everyone. One man may "throw god away" since they believe that GOD, if GOD exists will exist anyway and expects that person to freely question and doubt. Another man may believe that God cannot be thrown away to begin with...it would be like throwing the air or the water away...impossible.

But nothing in that post has anything to do with reality or critical thinking rather a great example of not critically thinking. It is perhaps the best example so far of what the problem is.


Anyone so limited that they can only spell a word one way is severely handicapped!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 435 by Phat, posted 10-16-2013 10:55 AM Phat has not yet responded

  
frako
Member
Posts: 2716
From: slovenija
Joined: 09-04-2010


Message 438 of 457 (708920)
10-16-2013 11:28 AM
Reply to: Message 431 by jar
10-16-2013 8:56 AM


Re: A partial summary.
Religious people also contributed to our knowledge and understanding of evolution, global warming, endangered species, germ theory, the big bang, physics, medicine, just about any field you care to mention.

Yes when they strip down their religion to the bare essentials they can function rationally. Yea Jesus is the son of god i know that because it says so in the bible and i also know that the bible is full of myths and anecdotes but that part is true.

How many Catholics do you think actually believe that the bread turned in to Jesus'es flesh and the wine in to his blood. How many do you think shrug it off as just a ritual preformed by the church.

Most religius people actually strip down their religion so fare that they should be called deists its just that their deity has a name.

Yes, there is a Christian Cult of Ignorance but there is also a Conservative Cult of Ignorance and Muslim Cult of Ignorance and Liberal Cult of Ignorance and Atheist Cult of Ignorance and

Yea ignorance is bliss but if you where to put those cults of ignorance on a scale from most ignorant to least, witch cults would rank most ignorant religious cults or secular cults.

The question of why folk deny such things, why they deny evidence does come down to comfort but that is true in many areas. It is human nature to accept the status quo until the pain of not changing becomes greater than the pain of change. That is most often seen today in personal relations; marriages are a great example.

Yea you have women who get beat by their husbands every day but still love them and think they love them. Denying evidence starring them in the face.

In the case of issues we often address here that conflict does devolve to changing the status of the Bible. So called Biblical Christians have a status quo that is based on denying evidence and finding work arounds that allow them to maintain the comfortable fictions. They begin by believing that the Bible is without contradictions even though the very first two books of the Bible are mutually exclusive.

Once you build a belief system that is based on mental dishonesty then denying reality and evidence becomes easy and comfortable.

Yea but its religion that puts them on the path of denying evidence. Its just that some religions found out that if their flocks dont deny reality and substitute it with the bible they are on a slippery slope to deism and atheism. Cutting off the funds to that religion.

But you also have to remember that the flock is not intentionally dishonest or even know that they are. Their program as you can see with Faith wont allow for anything that contradicts their beliefs, its like pushing a square trough a round hole information contradicting their beliefs cant get in. And if you manage to hammer it in it gets distorted or broken.


Christianity, One woman's lie about an affair that got seriously out of hand

What are the Christians gonna do to me ..... Forgive me, good luck with that.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 431 by jar, posted 10-16-2013 8:56 AM jar has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 441 by jar, posted 10-16-2013 11:47 AM frako has responded

    
frako
Member
Posts: 2716
From: slovenija
Joined: 09-04-2010


Message 439 of 457 (708921)
10-16-2013 11:33 AM
Reply to: Message 432 by Phat
10-16-2013 10:21 AM


Re: Reasons why this thread is due for Summary
Its entertaining to read these debates/discussions because through our words, we all get to "know" each other in an anecdotal sense. Interactions between humans are part of the process...imagine a man--a scientist--living alone on a planet who came up with several theories (and perhaps a few facts) on his own...without any interaction with others. Would his work be important? If so, to whom?

Depends on what he found out if he found out that friction causes heat, and that heat can be used to light a fire so he does not freeze to death at night then its very important for him. Because the next day he can find out how to split hydrogen from water to make fuel for the rocket that will take him home where he can tell other scientists about his grate discovery how you can use friction to make fire


Christianity, One woman's lie about an affair that got seriously out of hand

What are the Christians gonna do to me ..... Forgive me, good luck with that.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 432 by Phat, posted 10-16-2013 10:21 AM Phat has acknowledged this reply

    
frako
Member
Posts: 2716
From: slovenija
Joined: 09-04-2010


Message 440 of 457 (708922)
10-16-2013 11:38 AM
Reply to: Message 435 by Phat
10-16-2013 10:55 AM


Re: A partial summary.
perhaps, but I dont believe that critical thinking is the same for everyone. One man may "throw god away" since they believe that GOD, if GOD exists will exist anyway and expects that person to freely question and doubt. Another man may believe that God cannot be thrown away to begin with...it would be like throwing the air or the water away...impossible. Both may be honest yet both may arrive at differing conclusions.

Yea one man might ask what if god where to die tomorrow would anyone notice? Apart from a few select people feeling a disturbance in the force would we even notice. Days would still come and go its not god that is spinning the earth on its axes or around the sun newtons laws of motion cover that. People would still be borne its a fact about our biology that humans are made when a sperm cell inserts itself in to an egg cell that egg cell then just follows its "programming" to make a human, no god involved .... how would we really notice that god is gone?


Christianity, One woman's lie about an affair that got seriously out of hand

What are the Christians gonna do to me ..... Forgive me, good luck with that.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 435 by Phat, posted 10-16-2013 10:55 AM Phat has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 451 by Phat, posted 10-18-2013 5:58 PM frako has responded

    
jar
Member
Posts: 29820
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004
Member Rating: 1.5


Message 441 of 457 (708923)
10-16-2013 11:47 AM
Reply to: Message 438 by frako
10-16-2013 11:28 AM


Re: A partial summary.
No, it is not religion but rather a matter of being taught how to think. I was raised in a religious family and educated in religious schools yet I have absolutely none of the problems you ascribe to religion.

Anyone so limited that they can only spell a word one way is severely handicapped!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 438 by frako, posted 10-16-2013 11:28 AM frako has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 442 by frako, posted 10-16-2013 11:53 AM jar has responded

  
frako
Member
Posts: 2716
From: slovenija
Joined: 09-04-2010


Message 442 of 457 (708925)
10-16-2013 11:53 AM
Reply to: Message 441 by jar
10-16-2013 11:47 AM


Re: A partial summary.
yea i know you are religious. What religion and witch denomination?On a scale from 1 to 10 how religious are you? 1 if you hear voices telling you to sacrifice your neighbour to your god you run to the nearest mental facility, 10 if you here the same voices you immediately start building a pyre.

Christianity, One woman's lie about an affair that got seriously out of hand

What are the Christians gonna do to me ..... Forgive me, good luck with that.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 441 by jar, posted 10-16-2013 11:47 AM jar has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 443 by jar, posted 10-16-2013 11:57 AM frako has responded

    
jar
Member
Posts: 29820
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004
Member Rating: 1.5


Message 443 of 457 (708926)
10-16-2013 11:57 AM
Reply to: Message 442 by frako
10-16-2013 11:53 AM


Re: A partial summary.
I am a cradle creedal Episcopalian. I am very devout, at least a 10. It would depend on the neighbor.

Do you have any idea of how sophomoric those questions were?


Anyone so limited that they can only spell a word one way is severely handicapped!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 442 by frako, posted 10-16-2013 11:53 AM frako has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 444 by frako, posted 10-16-2013 12:10 PM jar has responded

  
frako
Member
Posts: 2716
From: slovenija
Joined: 09-04-2010


Message 444 of 457 (708928)
10-16-2013 12:10 PM
Reply to: Message 443 by jar
10-16-2013 11:57 AM


Re: A partial summary.
LOL i know the questions where immature. let me try again.

Episcopalian believe in the Eucharist right. So do you believe when the priest blesses the bread that it literally turns in to Jesus'es flesh or do you admit that the bread contains 0% Jesus.

But the Episcopalian religion is also very progressive compared to most, like you dont need a penis to be a priest, you dont hate gays ...

It looks like a very "light" religion so it probably dint mess your mind up that much


Christianity, One woman's lie about an affair that got seriously out of hand

What are the Christians gonna do to me ..... Forgive me, good luck with that.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 443 by jar, posted 10-16-2013 11:57 AM jar has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 445 by NoNukes, posted 10-16-2013 1:48 PM frako has not yet responded
 Message 447 by jar, posted 10-16-2013 2:51 PM frako has not yet responded

    
NoNukes
Member
Posts: 10127
From: Central NC USA
Joined: 08-13-2010
Member Rating: 1.7


Message 445 of 457 (708933)
10-16-2013 1:48 PM
Reply to: Message 444 by frako
10-16-2013 12:10 PM


Re: A partial summary.
Episcopalians are a varied lot. Some of them are pretty much Catholics, while others are okay with gay women priests.

Under a government which imprisons any unjustly, the true place for a just man is also in prison. Thoreau: Civil Disobedience (1846)

I believe that a scientist looking at nonscientific problems is just as dumb as the next guy.
Richard P. Feynman

If there is no struggle, there is no progress. Those who profess to favor freedom, and deprecate agitation, are men who want crops without plowing up the ground, they want rain without thunder and lightning. Frederick Douglass


This message is a reply to:
 Message 444 by frako, posted 10-16-2013 12:10 PM frako has not yet responded

    
Faith
Member
Posts: 26789
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 446 of 457 (708936)
10-16-2013 2:43 PM


My summary
What's wrong with people? can be asked from the Christian and creationist point of view too, but such things get answered by those who have the POWER to answer them according to their own opinions, not necessarily those who have the truth.

Evolutionists think anything done in the biological sciences confirms evolution, but most of it describes only microevolution which creationists regard as normal variation through built-in alleles. Of course they can just go on hallucinating "evolution" beyond that since they refuse to recognize that depleted genetic diversity is the necessary end result of evolutionary processes, and mutations couldn't possibly be the maker of normal alleles --in any number that could save the theory. Besides which, if they continued for millions of years, or even a hundred thousand or less, there wouldn't be anything left alive on the earth.

As long as science continues to be co-opted to the ToE and people want to believe it as apparently so many do, it will maintain its illusion as scientific.

I'd get on the Mayflower today if there was anywhere for it to go.

Edited by Faith, : No reason given.

Edited by Faith, : No reason given.

Edited by Faith, : No reason given.


Replies to this message:
 Message 449 by frako, posted 10-16-2013 10:38 PM Faith has not yet responded
 Message 450 by ringo, posted 10-17-2013 11:43 AM Faith has not yet responded
 Message 453 by Otto Tellick, posted 10-18-2013 11:05 PM Faith has not yet responded

    
jar
Member
Posts: 29820
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004
Member Rating: 1.5


Message 447 of 457 (708937)
10-16-2013 2:51 PM
Reply to: Message 444 by frako
10-16-2013 12:10 PM


Re: A partial summary.
So you continue to ask asinine questions?

Anyone so limited that they can only spell a word one way is severely handicapped!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 444 by frako, posted 10-16-2013 12:10 PM frako has not yet responded

  
PaulK
Member
Posts: 13391
Joined: 01-10-2003
Member Rating: 1.7


(5)
Message 448 of 457 (708938)
10-16-2013 3:28 PM


My summary
I'd really like to thank Faith for demonstrating so vividly the delusional pride of creationists.

I first came to properly understand evolution nearly 30 years ago - I'd given up Biology at 14 and it was the first major presentation of it that I really read. Dawkins explained the basic workings of evolution - mutation producing new variations and selection culling them. Somehow Faith still fails to understand that mutations are an important part of the theory and treats them as an optional extra.

She refuses to admit that her argument is fatally flawed despite resorting to the most obvious question-begging possible in an attempt to evade the problem.

She can't accept the fact that evolution is valid science. She can't even admit that evolution is based on solid evidence.

She thinks that confronting arguments against her view of the Bible consists of sitting in an echo chamber which won't allow proper consideration of those arguments. We know this because she has no knowledge of the real arguments for the Maccabaean dating of the book of Daniel.

She thinks that we should respect expert opinion - except when the experts say things contrary to the dogmas she espouses, in which case lies and slander are the the order of the day.

But I can't blame Christianity for her behaviour. Faith is a Christian only in the broad sense of paying lip-service to certain beliefs, or of calling herself Christian. But maybe that's just another of her delusions.


    
frako
Member
Posts: 2716
From: slovenija
Joined: 09-04-2010


(2)
Message 449 of 457 (708948)
10-16-2013 10:38 PM
Reply to: Message 446 by Faith
10-16-2013 2:43 PM


Re: My summary
I'd get on the Mayflower today if there was anywhere for it to go.

Just be careful that something like this does not happen to you if you let god steer the boat.


Christianity, One woman's lie about an affair that got seriously out of hand

What are the Christians gonna do to me ..... Forgive me, good luck with that.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 446 by Faith, posted 10-16-2013 2:43 PM Faith has not yet responded

    
ringo
Member
Posts: 14002
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005
Member Rating: 1.7


(1)
Message 450 of 457 (708973)
10-17-2013 11:43 AM
Reply to: Message 446 by Faith
10-16-2013 2:43 PM


Re: My summary
Faith writes:

As long as science continues to be co-opted to the ToE and people want to believe it as apparently so many do, it will maintain its illusion as scientific.


An illusion that works is called "reality".
This message is a reply to:
 Message 446 by Faith, posted 10-16-2013 2:43 PM Faith has not yet responded

  
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