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Author Topic:   What if this forum was dominated by creationists?
yenmor
Member (Idle past 1211 days)
Posts: 145
Joined: 07-01-2013


Message 76 of 86 (708141)
10-05-2013 1:35 PM
Reply to: Message 74 by Stile
10-05-2013 9:00 AM


Re: How do these ideas co-exist?
-->No, just wondering if you'll acknowledge that people aren't ever really black-or-white.

Um, that's why I also said that's just the tip of the ice berg. Having known these people for years, I can confidently say everything about them is white trash. Before I met them I had no idea there's a family out there that actually resemble the stereotype.

But whatever. You know best. You win.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 74 by Stile, posted 10-05-2013 9:00 AM Stile has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 77 by Stile, posted 10-07-2013 8:52 AM yenmor has not yet responded
 Message 78 by NoNukes, posted 10-07-2013 10:34 AM yenmor has responded
 Message 79 by New Cat's Eye, posted 10-07-2013 11:18 AM yenmor has not yet responded

    
Stile
Member
Posts: 3006
From: Ontario, Canada
Joined: 12-02-2004
Member Rating: 3.2


Message 77 of 86 (708212)
10-07-2013 8:52 AM
Reply to: Message 76 by yenmor
10-05-2013 1:35 PM


Absolutes and People don't mix
This is a place where we indicate inconsistencies and discuss them.
If you don't want to examine this area of your ideas, that's perfectly acceptable.

If your descriptions are accurate, I've no doubt that this family has an inclination towards trouble and you should stay away from them.
But statements like this are just interesting:

yenmor writes:

Having known these people for years, I can confidently say everything about them is white trash. Before I met them I had no idea there's a family out there that actually resemble the stereotype.

Of course there's people that resemble the stereotype. If there wasn't anyone who resembled it... then it wouldn't exist as a stereotype.
There's plenty more than just this one family.
But, which is it? Do they just "resemble" the stereotype or is "everything about them" the stereotype?

You're the one choosing to speak in absolutes about people.
Any absolute statement you say about people isn't going to be true.

"All mothers love their children." -not true
"All rocket scientists are smart." -not true
"Nobody wants to die alone." -not true

That's how I can tell that you're wrong when you say "everything about them is white trash." Of course it isn't, that's just immature and dismissive to say such things.

If you're interested in getting to the bottom of any issues your boyfriend has with his family, then dismissing everything about them isn't going to help the two of you communicate about the concept.
If you're interested in getting as far away from the family as possible, dismissing everything about them won't allow you to anticipate anything they do correctly and you'll end up running into them again and having more problems.

Either way, dismissing the truth entirely isn't going to help you.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 76 by yenmor, posted 10-05-2013 1:35 PM yenmor has not yet responded

    
NoNukes
Member
Posts: 9992
From: Central NC USA
Joined: 08-13-2010
Member Rating: 2.4


Message 78 of 86 (708220)
10-07-2013 10:34 AM
Reply to: Message 76 by yenmor
10-05-2013 1:35 PM


Re: How do these ideas co-exist?
I can confidently say everything about them is white trash. Before I met them I had no idea there's a family out there that actually resemble the stereotype.

Doggone it dude. And I had just given you a cheer for realizing that you pounding this family may not have been a great posting plan.

Let me say one thing positive about this 'white trash' family. Apparently whatever are their faults, they did managed to produce at least one family member that both you and they are quite enamored with.


Under a government which imprisons any unjustly, the true place for a just man is also in prison. Thoreau: Civil Disobedience (1846)

I believe that a scientist looking at nonscientific problems is just as dumb as the next guy.
Richard P. Feynman

If there is no struggle, there is no progress. Those who profess to favor freedom, and deprecate agitation, are men who want crops without plowing up the ground, they want rain without thunder and lightning. Frederick Douglass


This message is a reply to:
 Message 76 by yenmor, posted 10-05-2013 1:35 PM yenmor has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 80 by yenmor, posted 10-07-2013 10:10 PM NoNukes has not yet responded

    
New Cat's Eye
Member
Posts: 11761
From: near St. Louis
Joined: 01-27-2005
Member Rating: 1.8


(3)
Message 79 of 86 (708225)
10-07-2013 11:18 AM
Reply to: Message 76 by yenmor
10-05-2013 1:35 PM


Re: How do these ideas co-exist?
Having known these people for years, I can confidently say everything about them is white trash.

I know people that I can confidently say are wetbacks... I just don't go around saying it.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 76 by yenmor, posted 10-05-2013 1:35 PM yenmor has not yet responded

  
yenmor
Member (Idle past 1211 days)
Posts: 145
Joined: 07-01-2013


Message 80 of 86 (708270)
10-07-2013 10:10 PM
Reply to: Message 78 by NoNukes
10-07-2013 10:34 AM


Re: How do these ideas co-exist?
NoNukes writes:

et me say one thing positive about this 'white trash' family. Apparently whatever are their faults, they did managed to produce at least one family member that both you and they are quite enamored with.


Yes, they are so enamored of him that they threw him out of the house at age 15. Good call on that one.
This message is a reply to:
 Message 78 by NoNukes, posted 10-07-2013 10:34 AM NoNukes has not yet responded

    
Coyote
Member
Posts: 6012
Joined: 01-12-2008
Member Rating: 2.5


Message 81 of 86 (708271)
10-07-2013 10:40 PM


Off topic
Anyone have anything related to the topic?
  
Minnemooseus
Member
Posts: 3553
From: Duluth, Minnesota, U.S. (West end of Lake Superior)
Joined: 11-11-2001
Member Rating: 4.1


(1)
Message 82 of 86 (727031)
05-14-2014 9:00 PM
Reply to: Message 3 by ProtoTypical
09-30-2013 8:37 AM


Evo's critiquing evo messages
What I see at EvC is that it is reason, logic and evidence that lead the way. If someone says something that is wrong they will be called on it regardless of which side of the debate they are on. Science has a self-correcting mechanism that works by praising those who find mistakes instead of castigating them for their descent. I don't think there is anyone here who would not welcome another dissenting opinion. The whole point here is to see how your opinions hold up.

My bolding.

Repeating:

If someone says something that is wrong they will be called on it regardless of which side of the debate they are on.

My impression is that the evo side should nit-pick others of the evo side a little more. Personally, I think the creo side members are dog-piled enough without me also commenting, and thus I try to focus more on questioning evo side replies (especially in geology themes, my "area of expertise").

My examples (link text is message subtitle):

Nice graphic, but the text is rather bogus - My Sept. 6, 2013 reply to Catholic Scientist at the "Which animals would populate the earth if the ark was real?" topic.

A bit of trangression error from the evo side - My Oct. 10, 2013 reply to Granny Magda at the "Which animals would populate the earth if the ark was real?" topic.

The Kaibab sediments vs. deep ocean basin sediments - My April 17, 2014 reply to Tanypteryx at the "Why is evolution so controversial?" topic. This led to the creation of the new topic "Depositional Models of Sea Transgressions/Regressions - Walther's Law".

Percy bogusity from message 400 and 412 - My April 20, 2014 reply to Percy at the "Why is evolution so controversial?" topic.

So, the question is, does the evo side adequately critique the evo side (oslt)?

Moose


Professor, geology, Whatsamatta U
Evolution - Changes in the environment, caused by the interactions of the components of the environment.

"Do not meddle in the affairs of cats, for they are subtle and will piss on your computer." - Bruce Graham

"The modern conservative is engaged in one of man's oldest exercises in moral philosophy; that is, the search for a superior moral justification for selfishness." - John Kenneth Galbraith

"Yesterday on Fox News, commentator Glenn Beck said that he believes President Obama is a racist. To be fair, every time you watch Glenn Beck, it does get a little easier to hate white people." - Conan O'Brien

"I know a little about a lot of things, and a lot about a few things, but I'm highly ignorant about everything." - Moose


This message is a reply to:
 Message 3 by ProtoTypical, posted 09-30-2013 8:37 AM ProtoTypical has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 83 by AZPaul3, posted 05-14-2014 11:04 PM Minnemooseus has not yet responded
 Message 84 by ProtoTypical, posted 05-14-2014 11:29 PM Minnemooseus has not yet responded
 Message 86 by NoNukes, posted 05-15-2014 1:34 PM Minnemooseus has not yet responded

    
AZPaul3
Member
Posts: 3428
From: Phoenix
Joined: 11-06-2006


(1)
Message 83 of 86 (727037)
05-14-2014 11:04 PM
Reply to: Message 82 by Minnemooseus
05-14-2014 9:00 PM


Warm and Fuzzy
You want nit-pick, I'll give you nit-pick.

(oslt) ? Really? You expect us to just accept this?

All these years, the markings of the Moose, expected, some might say cherished, by this community is now to be reduced to some friggin acronym? What has happened to consistency in life? What has happened to that warmth people used to get from the beloved familiar? Happy with your old watch? Doesn't matter. Change it! Happy with your favorite tee-shirt? Change it! Everything is change, change, change! Warm and fuzzy when the dog greets you at the door? Buy a cat!

Change for the sake of change? ENOUGH!

There are certain things that we have come to expect while freely participating in this forum. The "All Topics" button in its consistent and familiar place. The "Understanding through Discussion" motto in the banner. The signature phrase that closes each and every moose missive. Those familiar words that let us all know that this message was the work of only the one mind, no one else. The one genuine authentic trademark of "Moose".

This motto, this guiding maxim, this astute aphorism, belongs in its formal sententious style, completely enlarged for all of lurkerdom to comprehend. And belongs where it should always reside, where there is no doubt to its position. It must reside at the end of the tidings, prominent on its own line between the body and the name. A closing of dignity. A farewell with distinction.

Or something like that.TM

This is the expectation.

(oslt) my ass!

Edited by AZPaul3, : Damn that was fun!


This message is a reply to:
 Message 82 by Minnemooseus, posted 05-14-2014 9:00 PM Minnemooseus has not yet responded

  
ProtoTypical
Member
Posts: 1754
From: Ontario Canada
Joined: 08-04-2010
Member Rating: 3.2


Message 84 of 86 (727038)
05-14-2014 11:29 PM
Reply to: Message 82 by Minnemooseus
05-14-2014 9:00 PM


Re: Evo's critiquing evo messages
So, the question is, does the evo side adequately critique the evo side (oslt)?

I certainly try when I am able but usually someone much more capable than me rises to the occasion. See Message 83

I think that any imbalance in the levelling of criticism is due mostly to the fact that one side is wrong far more often than the other. I would point out that if you look at the responses to your examples it is clear that the critical thinkers among us, be they theists or not, accept the criticism when it is valid and stand corrected as opposed to refusing it and requiring more criticism.

So the fact is that critical thinkers do most of the required critiquing before they open their mouths.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 82 by Minnemooseus, posted 05-14-2014 9:00 PM Minnemooseus has not yet responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 85 by Coyote, posted 05-14-2014 11:50 PM ProtoTypical has not yet responded

  
Coyote
Member
Posts: 6012
Joined: 01-12-2008
Member Rating: 2.5


Message 85 of 86 (727039)
05-14-2014 11:50 PM
Reply to: Message 84 by ProtoTypical
05-14-2014 11:29 PM


If...
If this site was dominated by creationists, they would be doing everything they could to get anyone who disagreed with them (even each other) banished.

Same as always.


Religious belief does not constitute scientific evidence, nor does it convey scientific knowledge.

Belief gets in the way of learning--Robert A. Heinlein

How can I possibly put a new idea into your heads, if I do not first remove your delusions?--Robert A. Heinlein

It's not what we don't know that hurts, it's what we know that ain't so--Will Rogers

If I am entitled to something, someone else is obliged to pay--Jerry Pournelle

If a religion's teachings are true, then it should have nothing to fear from science...--dwise1

"Multiculturalism" does not include the American culture. That is what it is against.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 84 by ProtoTypical, posted 05-14-2014 11:29 PM ProtoTypical has not yet responded

  
NoNukes
Member
Posts: 9992
From: Central NC USA
Joined: 08-13-2010
Member Rating: 2.4


Message 86 of 86 (727102)
05-15-2014 1:34 PM
Reply to: Message 82 by Minnemooseus
05-14-2014 9:00 PM


Re: Evo's critiquing evo messages
So, the question is, does the evo side adequately critique the evo side (oslt)?

Adequately, but maybe not to the extent that they could. I try to critique others when the topic is within my expertise, and I certainly don't mind receiving critiques.

But it is hard to imagine a less introspective group than that which constitutes the currently active group of creationists. With the exception of Faith, who at least seems to care when we catch her in errors, the creationists here don't even seem to be trying very hard.


Under a government which imprisons any unjustly, the true place for a just man is also in prison. Thoreau: Civil Disobedience (1846)

I have never met a man so ignorant that I couldn't learn something from him. Galileo Galilei

If there is no struggle, there is no progress. Those who profess to favor freedom, and deprecate agitation, are men who want crops without plowing up the ground, they want rain without thunder and lightning. Frederick Douglass


This message is a reply to:
 Message 82 by Minnemooseus, posted 05-14-2014 9:00 PM Minnemooseus has not yet responded

    
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