Human Spirit

Perhaps there is some level of separation.
It may not be some strange "metaphysical" separation, though.
A similar level of separation exists between ourselves and our physical extremities like our arms and legs.Again, brain damage can affect our control of our appendages.
Overwhelming environmental stimuli can also affect our control of our appendages (being surprised... reflex motions...)
And, obviously, we can use our intelligence to consciously affect our appendages.I think the relation between our control over our physical appendages and our control over our human spirit is very similar and may even be exactly the same.
I think we just practice the control over our physical body a lot more than we practice our control over our emotional/psychological status. Very true.It's also humbling to remember that the reason we have the time and leisure to think about these things and post them on the internet is because we are not worried about the next time we will find food, or safety (or at least a reasonable illusion of it).Some famous guy once said something like "discussion of morality is for the rich... those who have the leisure to think about such things. A man who steals bread to avoid starvation isn't worried about the moral issues at hand."Discussing the human spirit may well be in the same boat. Yup. Any and all "control" we think we have may very well just be an illusion. But, until we can find more evidence one way or another... the current evidence seems to say we do have some level of control in the situation. As long as our intelligence is sufficiently mature, anyway. I wouldn't be surprised.
I don't think we'll be privileged to see evidence one way or the other, though. That sort of proof may be lost to the pages of history. Close enough. "Human Spirit" is a topic with a lot of leeway.

Hi Dogmafood, Maybe it's like this, a Italian violin made in Cremona is nothing but wood and a bit of metal.It sits there waiting for the right skill and talent to fufill it's purpose.It is more than the sum of its parts que no? But only to someone who can appreciate such things.Perhaps the cards you are dealt is a molecular crap shoot.Some Italian spruce ends up as kindling, and some become Stratovarius.

Allow me to quote myself: "We are the sum of each other's parts. The human spirit is collective. " Message 39 That's because you're looking inside instead of outside.

I think I agree with this.Certainly in the sense of two-heads-are-better-than-one. Is that sort of what you mean?
I think it's well substantiated that people working together can influence each other's human spirit in powerful ways.Again, it can be positive or negative.Group therapy.
Mob mentality.
Team spirit.
Cults.The feeling of being "part of a tribe" (as the saying around here goes) can be very powerful as it likely connects with some of our ancient roots in how we depended on numbers of like-minded people in order to survive.Is that sort of what you're getting at? Or am I going down the wrong track?

I suppose that I agree with that except that a human spirit is a fair bit more nebulous than your left arm. I agree that the more we work on it the more that it comes into focus. Realizing or deciding that we can have some control is a major step in actually achieving some measure of control. Not to veer off too much into a discussion of free will but I think that it is germane to the topic. The subjective personal evidence says that it feels like we have some control. A close examination indicates that we are a product of our parts and circumstance and really cannot be anything different than what we are. Even though this is deterministic it still requires what feels like choices on our part. It is like driving down a road that you have never travelled. The road is already there but it is all new to you. I have to ignore this information in order to consider myself as an autonomous being.Be that as it may, we find ourselves here today. It feels like we have choices so which ones are we going to make and why? It seems as though it is possible to pull yourself up by your own bootstraps. That you can imagine your reality and then make it so. To some extent at least.Iff we can know all of the parts involved can we know to what extent. Perhaps that the important thing is just relative improvement and not our place on any absolute scale.

No I don't think so. The Strat in the hands of a master makes a different sound than it does in the hands of a freezing man looking to start a fire. I guess that the important thing is being able to recognize the potential.To go back to your shirt example. The shirt had that effect on you because it wasn't just any shirt. It served as a trigger when mixed with the other parts that were in your memory. It wouldn't have that effect on anybody else. So the parts of the equation are unique when that shirt was in your hands on that day.

Are you a communist as well as a fascist? I think that all of the other humans are just more parts to the equation. The same as any other thing that might impact our awareness. So I wouldn't say that our spirit is collective. Everything that goes into our experience makes us who we are. The other people are just parts of that experience.

Yes, much more nebulous.
I don't want to imply that I have some sort of full categorical evidence for such a thing. But all things start with no evidence. This is the time to search and find evidence and see where it leads. These are just my thoughts on the matter with what I know currently. If some real education can be done on the subject, I would be interested to see the results, for sure. I've always thought that the secret to life (my life, anyway) is two words: "get better."
It can be as simple as learning a new joke to create a smile where there was none before.
Or it can be as complex as controlled education for a doctorate degree.I think that relative improvement (trying to be the best you can be) is a virtue.
And that absolute improvement (worrying about how the scale is viewed by others) is nothing more than a selfish baby trying to get some attention.Competition is an excellent source for relative improvement.
Two ways to go about it:Wanting to see if you can beat other people in order to push your personal limits.
Wanting to see if you can beat other people in order to gain adulation of others.They are very similar, but I think one is quite hollow and the other is the mark of a true warrior. You know, as much as one can be a warrior without ever picking up a pointy spear or anything actually dangerous... They are so similar that other people may not always be able to tell the difference.
Only your own personal choice and what you feel inside will let you know where you stand, or where you want to stand. Again, this gets back to be honest with yourself.

Yes, my first thought was team spirit. I don't know if I'd say that two heads are "better" than one but two heads often have "more spirit" than one, for better or worse.

Yes. Well, that experience is the source of our "spirit", isn't it? Without other peoples spirit to add to ours, ours wouldn't be the same.

When you get right down to the nitty gritty, everything is a collection of fundalmental forces, subatomic particles and atoms that have the potential to combine into molecules and then protiens to form anything from a bactirum cell to the human mind.Maybe, it is our humanity that places the value hierarchy that exist between things. To recognize the difference between a sentient creature and a sponge, or a stratovarius and a scrap of spruce.Have you ever watched the show FRINGE? Towards the end of the series starting around middle of the milinenium humans existing in around 2036 go back in time to observe our own past.They are called observers. Long story short humans have evolved into these un feeling, completely logical beings practically incapable of emotions because they altered the portions of the brain that is responsible for such emotions in favor of more cognitive abililites.These future humans had the emotions of a reptile. They saw no importance between a rock and a human. They only saw things in terms of it's intrinsic value.These observers lost the thing that made us human. The thing that separates us from a turing machine/computer.
Our ability to "recognize the potential" in things and realize that we are more than the sum of our parts.

Sorry, must have dozed off there. I certainly share that thought and impulse but mixed with that is an attraction towards being content with things the way that they are whenever possible. It is just so much easier to decide that what you have is good enough. You know, ...en manana.I see that this attitude does not lead to a first world standard of living in some respects but can lead to a greater level of contentment and happiness. Our relentless pursuit of ever more is fouling up a lot of things while it drives us forward.

Meh, there's lots to life. If you answer every post here... you're likely missing out on something else I think we're talking about the same thing, just with different contexts.
When I say "get better" I'm not talking about making more money or getting more things (although I could be talking about those things). I'm talking about anything and everything that makes you "better."It could be as complex as going through the education system for a doctorate degree.
It could be as simple as relaxation techniques to calm yourself "better" than you could before.
Maybe using your imagination to entertain yourself in ways you didn't think of before.
Maybe practicing some ping-pong.
Maybe even... becoming content with what you have instead of falling into the "the grass is greener on the other side" jealousy cycle....anything and everything that makes you "better." I agree. "More" does not always equal "better."

Yes I get that. It really is one of the core elements of what makes a human. Ceaselessly pursuing improvement. Driven by the ego coupled with our immense curiosity. I am not sure which is the dominate driver. I was speaking with a guy the other week who was adamant that it is our curiosity that sets us apart from all the other creatures. That curiosity is the precursor to intelligence. It is interesting and I wonder how intelligence and curiosity are related and if one could be identified as coming first.My previous thought, though, was about contentment. It seems as though we are not content with being content. Somehow like you are slacking off. Damn near a sin if you ask a protestant. Isn't happiness the goal?