Register | Sign In


Understanding through Discussion


EvC Forum active members: 64 (9164 total)
4 online now:
Newest Member: ChatGPT
Post Volume: Total: 916,784 Year: 4,041/9,624 Month: 912/974 Week: 239/286 Day: 46/109 Hour: 0/0


Thread  Details

Email This Thread
Newer Topic | Older Topic
  
Author Topic:   Islamophobia or a real reason to fear?
Coyote
Member (Idle past 2132 days)
Posts: 6117
Joined: 01-12-2008


Message 16 of 21 (710400)
11-05-2013 8:27 AM
Reply to: Message 14 by vimesey
11-05-2013 8:04 AM


Re: crazy folk are crazy
We could invite the Muslim Council of Britain to nominate someone to join us ? The MCB is a strong voice of reason, tolerance and progressiveness in the UK.
You would have to beware of Taqiyya (q.v.).

Religious belief does not constitute scientific evidence, nor does it convey scientific knowledge.
Belief gets in the way of learning--Robert A. Heinlein
How can I possibly put a new idea into your heads, if I do not first remove your delusions?--Robert A. Heinlein
It's not what we don't know that hurts, it's what we know that ain't so--Will Rogers
If I am entitled to something, someone else is obliged to pay--Jerry Pournelle

This message is a reply to:
 Message 14 by vimesey, posted 11-05-2013 8:04 AM vimesey has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 18 by vimesey, posted 11-05-2013 9:57 AM Coyote has not replied

  
caffeine
Member (Idle past 1050 days)
Posts: 1800
From: Prague, Czech Republic
Joined: 10-22-2008


Message 17 of 21 (710401)
11-05-2013 8:31 AM
Reply to: Message 12 by AZPaul3
11-05-2013 7:44 AM


Re: crazy folk are crazy
Being in eastern Europe you have probably seen more.
I think you're a bit misinformed about our demographics here. There are far more Buddhists and, according to the last census, Jedi Knights in this country than Muslims. In this city I only know one Muslim, unless we stretch the definition of 'know' to include 'eat curry in the restaurant of'. Most of the Muslims I've known were British or British residents.
endorsed or reluctantly condoned?
Vocally condemned. Now, I will freely admit that the Muslims I know are probably not any sort of representative sample, since they were mostly politically active students. However, there was a very interesting survey conducted recently on the moral and religious beliefs of the British population, sorted by religion. Whilst there were certain topics on which religious belief tended to sway the sample - Catholics and Muslims were more likely to oppose legal abortion, for example - the most interesting part of the study for me was that a lot of people's beliefs were clearly at variance with what we expect the teachings of their religions to advocate - Muslims too.
I'm trying to find the poll now, and I'll get back to you on this.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 12 by AZPaul3, posted 11-05-2013 7:44 AM AZPaul3 has seen this message but not replied

  
vimesey
Member (Idle past 99 days)
Posts: 1398
From: Birmingham, England
Joined: 09-21-2011


Message 18 of 21 (710418)
11-05-2013 9:57 AM
Reply to: Message 16 by Coyote
11-05-2013 8:27 AM


Re: crazy folk are crazy
You would have to beware of Taqiyya (q.v.).
I'm not so sure about that. Taqiyya appears to have more to do with the denial of elements of faith, to avoid persecution. I am inferring from the context of this thread that you are wary of taqiyya, because it might provide a cloak of moderation, to hide extremism.
I don't perceive that in the MCB. Extremism is not pervasive in those parts of the Muslim community I bump into, and I am more than happy to invite some Islamic input into this question. Certainly better that, than second guessing.

Could there be any greater conceit, than for someone to believe that the universe has to be simple enough for them to be able to understand it ?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 16 by Coyote, posted 11-05-2013 8:27 AM Coyote has not replied

  
vimesey
Member (Idle past 99 days)
Posts: 1398
From: Birmingham, England
Joined: 09-21-2011


Message 19 of 21 (710419)
11-05-2013 9:58 AM
Reply to: Message 15 by jar
11-05-2013 8:25 AM


Re: crazy folk are crazy
They do. But that's a much better starting place than an organisation which self-identifies as extreme.

Could there be any greater conceit, than for someone to believe that the universe has to be simple enough for them to be able to understand it ?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 15 by jar, posted 11-05-2013 8:25 AM jar has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 20 by jar, posted 11-05-2013 10:01 AM vimesey has replied

  
jar
Member (Idle past 420 days)
Posts: 34026
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


Message 20 of 21 (710420)
11-05-2013 10:01 AM
Reply to: Message 19 by vimesey
11-05-2013 9:58 AM


Re: crazy folk are crazy
I disagree.
I fear the groups that self-identify as mainstream but are extreme more than the ones that admit they are extreme.

Anyone so limited that they can only spell a word one way is severely handicapped!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 19 by vimesey, posted 11-05-2013 9:58 AM vimesey has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 21 by vimesey, posted 11-05-2013 10:09 AM jar has seen this message but not replied

  
vimesey
Member (Idle past 99 days)
Posts: 1398
From: Birmingham, England
Joined: 09-21-2011


Message 21 of 21 (710422)
11-05-2013 10:09 AM
Reply to: Message 20 by jar
11-05-2013 10:01 AM


Re: crazy folk are crazy
The key words there are "but are extreme". I'm not aware of any evidence that the MCB is extreme.

Could there be any greater conceit, than for someone to believe that the universe has to be simple enough for them to be able to understand it ?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 20 by jar, posted 11-05-2013 10:01 AM jar has seen this message but not replied

  
Newer Topic | Older Topic
Jump to:


Copyright 2001-2023 by EvC Forum, All Rights Reserved

™ Version 4.2
Innovative software from Qwixotic © 2024