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Author Topic:   Why "YEC" Creationism is BAD for America
RAZD
Member
Posts: 19091
From: the other end of the sidewalk
Joined: 03-14-2004
Member Rating: 2.5


(3)
Message 122 of 179 (718669)
02-08-2014 7:48 AM
Reply to: Message 112 by Jaf
02-07-2014 11:31 PM


Re: Gap-toothed creationists
You sir are what I call an ...

Curiously it doesn't matter in the slightest what name-calling you do, it just demonstrates more and more that you have no argument, that your belief cannot be supported with actual everyday evidence and that you are upset about that.

Could be because what you believe is not worth believing if you have no argument and it cannot be supported with actual everyday evidence.

When I look at evolution I can see it happening, and that is a very strong bit of evidence that evolution is occurring in the world ... the fact that you can see it everywhere.

But please ... feel free to continue your example of how bad creationist beliefs are for intellectual development ... you are doing an excellent job.


we are limited in our ability to understand
by our ability to understand
Rebel American Zen Deist
... to learn ... to think ... to live ... to laugh ...
to share.


Join the effort to solve medical problems, AIDS/HIV, Cancer and more with Team EvC! (click)

This message is a reply to:
 Message 112 by Jaf, posted 02-07-2014 11:31 PM Jaf has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 132 by Jaf, posted 02-08-2014 4:50 PM RAZD has responded

  
RAZD
Member
Posts: 19091
From: the other end of the sidewalk
Joined: 03-14-2004
Member Rating: 2.5


(3)
Message 123 of 179 (718670)
02-08-2014 7:56 AM
Reply to: Message 116 by Jaf
02-08-2014 12:22 AM


Re: Gap-toothed creationists
You started the ad hom iif I recall when you insulted my intellectual capacity to understand your beloved religion, hey, just like atheists can read the bible and then wipe their asses on it, we can read "science " too.

But I haven't insulted your intellectual capacity, just noted it for what it is: you are the one who demonstrated that you don't understand it.

And swearing doesn't make your argument any more intellectual.

Sad but true.

Edited by RAZD, : ..


we are limited in our ability to understand
by our ability to understand
Rebel American Zen Deist
... to learn ... to think ... to live ... to laugh ...
to share.


Join the effort to solve medical problems, AIDS/HIV, Cancer and more with Team EvC! (click)

This message is a reply to:
 Message 116 by Jaf, posted 02-08-2014 12:22 AM Jaf has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 138 by Jaf, posted 02-08-2014 5:01 PM RAZD has responded

  
RAZD
Member
Posts: 19091
From: the other end of the sidewalk
Joined: 03-14-2004
Member Rating: 2.5


(1)
Message 124 of 179 (718671)
02-08-2014 8:07 AM
Reply to: Message 115 by Jaf
02-08-2014 12:15 AM


Re: Gap-toothed creationists
To be fair with you RAZD you are obviously passionate about your beliefs, I would like evolution teaching banned as well but it's a free world dude.

Sadly for you, evolution is a science and not a belief system, and your inability to understand this once again is demonstrated, thank you.

Children deserve to be taught knowledge and the ways to improve knowledge -- and that is how science works. They should be taught logic and critical thinking and how to explore knowledge without bias to beliefs.

When you look around you everyday and see the process of evolution occurring and that understanding evolution leads to a deeper understanding of this fact, then that too is something that we should share with children.


we are limited in our ability to understand
by our ability to understand
Rebel American Zen Deist
... to learn ... to think ... to live ... to laugh ...
to share.


Join the effort to solve medical problems, AIDS/HIV, Cancer and more with Team EvC! (click)

This message is a reply to:
 Message 115 by Jaf, posted 02-08-2014 12:15 AM Jaf has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 140 by Jaf, posted 02-08-2014 5:18 PM RAZD has responded

  
RAZD
Member
Posts: 19091
From: the other end of the sidewalk
Joined: 03-14-2004
Member Rating: 2.5


(1)
Message 125 of 179 (718672)
02-08-2014 8:10 AM
Reply to: Message 121 by Jaf
02-08-2014 6:59 AM


Re: set theory and the null set
I learned a new word from your esteemed leader, called gish galloping, smart ass told me to google it, it means, "sorry you have presented far too much evidence in this thread and if we let it though we are basically finished so sorry we aren't going to , is that cool with you?" Then he closed by saying now if you don't mind I'm off to do some actual work that people pay me for, yeah that's from the lovely chap who runs the show here, scientists, lol.

So I take it that you don't understand set theory ... or the gish gallop ...

Another shining example of creationist thinking and intellectual capacity.


we are limited in our ability to understand
by our ability to understand
Rebel American Zen Deist
... to learn ... to think ... to live ... to laugh ...
to share.


Join the effort to solve medical problems, AIDS/HIV, Cancer and more with Team EvC! (click)

This message is a reply to:
 Message 121 by Jaf, posted 02-08-2014 6:59 AM Jaf has not yet responded

  
Coyote
Member
Posts: 6014
Joined: 01-12-2008
Member Rating: 2.3


(1)
Message 126 of 179 (718680)
02-08-2014 10:06 AM
Reply to: Message 118 by Jaf
02-08-2014 1:18 AM


Re: Ape-tooth monkeys
You still have not addressed my message about primate skeletons.

Why are skeletons among all the primates so similar, such that when you learn the skeletal anatomy of one you know them all?


Religious belief does not constitute scientific evidence, nor does it convey scientific knowledge.

Belief gets in the way of learning--Robert A. Heinlein

How can I possibly put a new idea into your heads, if I do not first remove your delusions?--Robert A. Heinlein

It's not what we don't know that hurts, it's what we know that ain't so--Will Rogers

If I am entitled to something, someone else is obliged to pay--Jerry Pournelle

If a religion's teachings are true, then it should have nothing to fear from science...--dwise1


This message is a reply to:
 Message 118 by Jaf, posted 02-08-2014 1:18 AM Jaf has not yet responded

  
New Cat's Eye
Member
Posts: 11769
From: near St. Louis
Joined: 01-27-2005
Member Rating: 1.6


(3)
Message 127 of 179 (718681)
02-08-2014 10:09 AM
Reply to: Message 106 by Jaf
02-07-2014 10:29 PM


Re: Ape-tooth monkeys
Just because someone invents a classification doesn't mean I belong to it

Actually, it does, regardless of whether or not you, personally, accept the classification.

EvC Members Who's Name Begins With J

You do not have the ability to decide that you don't belong to that classification.

You also don't have the ability to decide that you are not an ape.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 106 by Jaf, posted 02-07-2014 10:29 PM Jaf has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 130 by RAZD, posted 02-08-2014 1:38 PM New Cat's Eye has not yet responded
 Message 133 by Jaf, posted 02-08-2014 4:53 PM New Cat's Eye has responded

  
ringo
Member
Posts: 13734
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005
Member Rating: 1.7


(1)
Message 128 of 179 (718685)
02-08-2014 10:43 AM
Reply to: Message 96 by Jaf
02-07-2014 6:39 PM


Re: Ape-tooth monkeys
Jaf writes:

We get to tell people in funny white coats, clip boards and Bunsen burners to effoff when they try and lie to us about who are ancestors are.


Sure you do. You also get to yell at the TV when some cartoon character does something you don't like. But scientists won't pay any more attention to you than your TV does. Creationism is a dead issue.
This message is a reply to:
 Message 96 by Jaf, posted 02-07-2014 6:39 PM Jaf has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 137 by Jaf, posted 02-08-2014 4:58 PM ringo has responded

  
ringo
Member
Posts: 13734
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005
Member Rating: 1.7


(2)
Message 129 of 179 (718686)
02-08-2014 10:49 AM
Reply to: Message 120 by Jaf
02-08-2014 6:36 AM


Re: Ape-tooth monkeys
Jaf writes:

... wtf is the creation part then, ???"??????????"??????????


The creation part is for the creationists to provide. You tell us what the creationist model is.
This message is a reply to:
 Message 120 by Jaf, posted 02-08-2014 6:36 AM Jaf has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 135 by Jaf, posted 02-08-2014 4:56 PM ringo has responded

  
RAZD
Member
Posts: 19091
From: the other end of the sidewalk
Joined: 03-14-2004
Member Rating: 2.5


Message 130 of 179 (718707)
02-08-2014 1:38 PM
Reply to: Message 127 by New Cat's Eye
02-08-2014 10:09 AM


Re: Ape-tooth monkeys
Just because someone invents a classification doesn't mean I belong to it

Actually, it does, regardless of whether or not you, personally, accept the classification.

You also don't have the ability to decide that you are not an ape.

What jaf could argue is that the classifications are not distinctive enough, that it either allows non-apes to be classified as apes (which is done by presenting evidence of this), or that it doesn't discriminate enough to exclude the jafs from the group (which would have to be some criteria that applied to the other apes would not result in their exclusion).

That is what a proper scientific response would be, rather than the childish "I'm not but what are you" schoolyard taunt. But I doubt jaf is up to it, but I can wait to see.


we are limited in our ability to understand
by our ability to understand
Rebel American Zen Deist
... to learn ... to think ... to live ... to laugh ...
to share.


Join the effort to solve medical problems, AIDS/HIV, Cancer and more with Team EvC! (click)

This message is a reply to:
 Message 127 by New Cat's Eye, posted 02-08-2014 10:09 AM New Cat's Eye has not yet responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 134 by Jaf, posted 02-08-2014 4:55 PM RAZD has acknowledged this reply

  
RAZD
Member
Posts: 19091
From: the other end of the sidewalk
Joined: 03-14-2004
Member Rating: 2.5


(2)
Message 131 of 179 (718710)
02-08-2014 3:45 PM


Creationist Failure -- predictions
As we saw in the Nye vs Ham debate the main reason Nye did so well was in his emphasis on the ability of evolution (in specific and science in general) to make predictions -- and that creationism was unable to make predictions. This of course is one of the main reason that creationism is not science.

But there is also the problem of explanations that cover all the evidence.

Let's look at some:

  1. Number of zygotes needed to achieve a viable pregnancy: between 50% and 75% never implant on the uterus wall, and about half of the remaining end up with miscarriages of one sort or another (empty embrio sacks to non viable organs) ...

    Evolution explains this creationism doesn't

  2. Fetal development through several stages with striking similarities for similar organisms ...

    Evolution explains this, creationism doesn't

  3. Genetic similarity between similar organisms (see Message 40 from the debate thread) ...

    Evolution explains this, creationism doesn't

  4. The fusion of gene 2 in humans

    is not predicted or explained by creationism, but evolution not only predicts it but predicts how we know that this fusion occurred -- telomeres in the center and two centromere locations with one being disabled (which means there is no rational reason for it from a creationist point of view)

  5. Nested hierarchies

    are a prediction of evolution, with branches occurring at random times and without any apparent end well into the very deep past. which is observed in both the fossil record and the genetic record

    While creationists can claim that "after their kind" would predict limited nested hierarchies, with each kind having separate hierarchies ... and it also would predict a universal bottleneck in all kinds at the same time -- the purported flood event -- and none of this is observed in either morphological or genetic evidence, ...

This short list is just a sample of the evidence that supports evolution and the failure of creation to explain the evidence.

Why should anyone want to teach a belief system that doesn't explain the evidence or make valid predictions?


we are limited in our ability to understand
by our ability to understand
Rebel American Zen Deist
... to learn ... to think ... to live ... to laugh ...
to share.


Join the effort to solve medical problems, AIDS/HIV, Cancer and more with Team EvC! (click)

  
Jaf
Member (Idle past 1254 days)
Posts: 150
Joined: 01-30-2014


Message 132 of 179 (718714)
02-08-2014 4:50 PM
Reply to: Message 122 by RAZD
02-08-2014 7:48 AM


Re: Gap-toothed creationists
It doesn't matter a titter the rubbish that you scrawl on the walls In here day in day out. There is way that seems right to RAZD but in the end it leads to death.
This message is a reply to:
 Message 122 by RAZD, posted 02-08-2014 7:48 AM RAZD has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 136 by RAZD, posted 02-08-2014 4:57 PM Jaf has responded

    
Jaf
Member (Idle past 1254 days)
Posts: 150
Joined: 01-30-2014


Message 133 of 179 (718715)
02-08-2014 4:53 PM
Reply to: Message 127 by New Cat's Eye
02-08-2014 10:09 AM


Re: Ape-tooth monkeys
God created you and you don't accept that and you tell me I have accept what you say I am, dude get your head read. It's a free country until RAZD is president.
This message is a reply to:
 Message 127 by New Cat's Eye, posted 02-08-2014 10:09 AM New Cat's Eye has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 157 by New Cat's Eye, posted 02-08-2014 8:04 PM Jaf has responded

    
Jaf
Member (Idle past 1254 days)
Posts: 150
Joined: 01-30-2014


Message 134 of 179 (718716)
02-08-2014 4:55 PM
Reply to: Message 130 by RAZD
02-08-2014 1:38 PM


Re: Ape-tooth monkeys
Oh look razd is arguing with himself now and schooling the others Lol.

Edited by Jaf, : No reason given.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 130 by RAZD, posted 02-08-2014 1:38 PM RAZD has acknowledged this reply

    
Jaf
Member (Idle past 1254 days)
Posts: 150
Joined: 01-30-2014


Message 135 of 179 (718717)
02-08-2014 4:56 PM
Reply to: Message 129 by ringo
02-08-2014 10:49 AM


Re: Ape-tooth monkeys
You tell me what it is chap its
your troll hole not mine.
This message is a reply to:
 Message 129 by ringo, posted 02-08-2014 10:49 AM ringo has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 178 by ringo, posted 02-09-2014 1:10 PM Jaf has not yet responded

    
RAZD
Member
Posts: 19091
From: the other end of the sidewalk
Joined: 03-14-2004
Member Rating: 2.5


Message 136 of 179 (718718)
02-08-2014 4:57 PM
Reply to: Message 132 by Jaf
02-08-2014 4:50 PM


Re: Gap-toothed creationists
It doesn't matter a titter the rubbish that you scrawl on the walls In here day in day out. There is way that seems right to RAZD but in the end it leads to death.

and again the creationist quiver is empty ... nothing in the argument for what explains the evidence, nothing for predictions ... nothing worth teaching in science class and no approach for investigating or learning new information.


we are limited in our ability to understand
by our ability to understand
Rebel American Zen Deist
... to learn ... to think ... to live ... to laugh ...
to share.


Join the effort to solve medical problems, AIDS/HIV, Cancer and more with Team EvC! (click)

This message is a reply to:
 Message 132 by Jaf, posted 02-08-2014 4:50 PM Jaf has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 146 by Jaf, posted 02-08-2014 5:43 PM RAZD has responded

  
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