Understanding through Discussion


Welcome! You are not logged in. [ Login ]
EvC Forum active members: 112 (8734 total)
Current session began: 
Page Loaded: 03-30-2017 6:41 PM
260 online now:
Faith, jar, Modulous (AdminModulous), NoNukes, Tangle, Theodoric (6 members, 254 visitors)
Chatting now:  Chat room empty
Newest Member: timtak
Post Volume:
Total: 802,257 Year: 6,863/21,208 Month: 2,624/2,634 Week: 287/525 Day: 46/74 Hour: 7/6


Thread  Details

Email This Thread
Newer Topic | Older Topic
  
RewPrev1
...
122123124
125
126127Next
Author Topic:   Why the Flood Never Happened
Faith
Member
Posts: 24019
Joined: 10-06-2001
Member Rating: 1.0


Message 1861 of 1896 (718153)
02-05-2014 6:05 AM
Reply to: Message 1853 by edge
02-04-2014 6:54 PM


Re: mountains
NOW it's a passive margin, but when the separation began at the Atlantic ridge there was most probably some degree of jolting, ...

So you admit that the Appalachians formed at an earlier time.
'

Not sure. The same initial movement would certainly have exerted force at the west coast end of the continent too, where subduction began and pushed up the Rockies. Could have been going on in the same time frme.

As I said, all evidence says that the Appalachians formed at a continental covergent boundary. The Mid-Ocean Ridge had nothing to do with it.

How odd. I thought the continents were separating from that ridge.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 1853 by edge, posted 02-04-2014 6:54 PM edge has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 1865 by RAZD, posted 02-05-2014 8:34 AM Faith has not yet responded
 Message 1867 by edge, posted 02-05-2014 9:48 AM Faith has not yet responded

    
Faith
Member
Posts: 24019
Joined: 10-06-2001
Member Rating: 1.0


Message 1862 of 1896 (718154)
02-05-2014 6:13 AM
Reply to: Message 1854 by edge
02-04-2014 7:14 PM


Re: More evidence for Faith to ignore.
Well, it appears that time is the major factor. For instance, post-orogenic basins formed the Appalachians during the Triassic, whereas they formed in the Rockies in the Pennsylvanian (Carboniferous) and the Tertiary. Please explain.

Here's a typical piece of Old Earth mystification. "During the Triassic" is utterly meaningless to me. I associate all the names of eras with ROCKS. The idea that basins formed during the Triassic or during the Carboniferous and Tertiary is just gobbledygook, like saying a rock is a landscape, which is one of the most bizarre ideas of historical Geology. It provides nothing in the way of evidence one could even begin to picture in one's mind.

I always thought the Alps were very high mountains and the Appalachians very low mountains more like rolling hills.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 1854 by edge, posted 02-04-2014 7:14 PM edge has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 1868 by edge, posted 02-05-2014 9:52 AM Faith has not yet responded
 Message 1879 by roxrkool, posted 02-05-2014 3:09 PM Faith has not yet responded

    
Faith
Member
Posts: 24019
Joined: 10-06-2001
Member Rating: 1.0


Message 1863 of 1896 (718155)
02-05-2014 6:15 AM
Reply to: Message 1855 by Dr Adequate
02-04-2014 7:32 PM


Re: mountains
If you tear two things apart, they don't buckle up in the middle. Buckling is what happens when you push two things together.

That's why I suggested rebound.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 1855 by Dr Adequate, posted 02-04-2014 7:32 PM Dr Adequate has not yet responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 1872 by edge, posted 02-05-2014 10:10 AM Faith has not yet responded
 Message 1880 by ringo, posted 02-06-2014 12:00 PM Faith has not yet responded

    
Faith
Member
Posts: 24019
Joined: 10-06-2001
Member Rating: 1.0


Message 1864 of 1896 (718156)
02-05-2014 6:18 AM
Reply to: Message 1856 by edge
02-04-2014 7:38 PM


Re: restatement
Your post conveys just about nothing to me so I can't respond to it, except to this part:

The forces are not from beneath. They are lateral, and the strain is concentrated in the weaker zone.

Lateral force buckled the lower strata. The buckling pushed upward against the strata above.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 1856 by edge, posted 02-04-2014 7:38 PM edge has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 1870 by edge, posted 02-05-2014 9:57 AM Faith has not yet responded

    
RAZD
Member
Posts: 18242
From: the other end of the sidewalk
Joined: 03-14-2004
Member Rating: 3.0


(2)
Message 1865 of 1896 (718171)
02-05-2014 8:34 AM
Reply to: Message 1861 by Faith
02-05-2014 6:05 AM


mountains and the names of layers
As I said, all evidence says that the Appalachians formed at a continental covergent boundary. The Mid-Ocean Ridge had nothing to do with it.

How odd. I thought the continents were separating from that ridge.

They are separating now, previously they were colliding and the Appalachians formed during the period of collision. This is why they are older than the Alps ...

Message 1862: I always thought the Alps were very high mountains and the Appalachians very low mountains more like rolling hills.

They were high mountains but now they are greatly eroded mountains.

"During the Triassic" is utterly meaningless to me. I associate all the names of eras with ROCKS. The idea that basins formed during the Triassic or during the Carboniferous and Tertiary is just gobbledygook,

Because you are ignorant of even basic geology, refuse to learn the terms that school children know about, and pretend that your lack of knowledge is superior to actual knowledge.

These are just the "names" of layers, so they designate locations in the geological strata with oldest layers at the bottom and youngest layers at the top.

Even if you ignore the absolute dates of geology in order to make you fantasy conceivable, you still need to pay attention to the relative ages - what layers are below other layers, when plates collided and when they separated.

Doing otherwise is just plain foolish silly putty fantasy.


we are limited in our ability to understand
by our ability to understand
Rebel American Zen Deist
... to learn ... to think ... to live ... to laugh ...
to share.


Join the effort to solve medical problems, AIDS/HIV, Cancer and more with Team EvC! (click)

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1861 by Faith, posted 02-05-2014 6:05 AM Faith has not yet responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 1874 by herebedragons, posted 02-05-2014 10:44 AM RAZD has acknowledged this reply

  
RAZD
Member
Posts: 18242
From: the other end of the sidewalk
Joined: 03-14-2004
Member Rating: 3.0


Message 1866 of 1896 (718174)
02-05-2014 8:57 AM
Reply to: Message 1852 by edge
02-04-2014 6:46 PM


Re: More evidence for Faith to ignore.
That wasn't the point. The point is that if Cretaceous rocks are deformed in one mountain range, but not in another, it suggests that they are of different ages.

You need to use grade-school terminology with Faith, as it seems she doesn't understand anything more complicated ...


we are limited in our ability to understand
by our ability to understand
Rebel American Zen Deist
... to learn ... to think ... to live ... to laugh ...
to share.


Join the effort to solve medical problems, AIDS/HIV, Cancer and more with Team EvC! (click)

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1852 by edge, posted 02-04-2014 6:46 PM edge has not yet responded

  
edge
Member
Posts: 3711
From: Colorado, USA
Joined: 01-09-2002
Member Rating: 1.7


(3)
Message 1867 of 1896 (718181)
02-05-2014 9:48 AM
Reply to: Message 1861 by Faith
02-05-2014 6:05 AM


Re: mountains
How odd. I thought the continents were separating from that ridge.

Yes, it is odd that you think nothing happened prior to the initial opening of the Atlantic Ocean.

Odd also that you should think separation of the continents would result in convergent deformation.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 1861 by Faith, posted 02-05-2014 6:05 AM Faith has not yet responded

  
edge
Member
Posts: 3711
From: Colorado, USA
Joined: 01-09-2002
Member Rating: 1.7


(1)
Message 1868 of 1896 (718184)
02-05-2014 9:52 AM
Reply to: Message 1862 by Faith
02-05-2014 6:13 AM


Re: More evidence for Faith to ignore.
Here's a typical piece of Old Earth mystification. "During the Triassic" is utterly meaningless to me.

Of course it is. I would expect that a lot of things are utterly meaningless to you.

My guess is that this dismissal means that you don't really care, either.

I associate all the names of eras with ROCKS. The idea that basins formed during the Triassic or during the Carboniferous and Tertiary is just gobbledygook, like saying a rock is a landscape, which is one of the most bizarre ideas of historical Geology. It provides nothing in the way of evidence one could even begin to picture in one's mind.

You mean to your mind.

I always thought the Alps were very high mountains and the Appalachians very low mountains more like rolling hills.

And?

Edited by edge, : No reason given.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 1862 by Faith, posted 02-05-2014 6:13 AM Faith has not yet responded

  
Tempe 12ft Chicken
Member (Idle past 178 days)
Posts: 436
From: Tempe, Az.
Joined: 10-25-2012


(4)
Message 1869 of 1896 (718185)
02-05-2014 9:54 AM
Reply to: Message 1858 by roxrkool
02-04-2014 9:55 PM


Re: More evidence for Faith to ignore.
I have to agree with you here Rox! I have suggested to many of my friends that are interested in knowing more about the world that they look up this thread to begin to understand the structure of the canyon. While Faith's evidence has been dismal and relied upon thinking about each aspect in isolation from other portions of the canyon, the evidence that everyone else has given in rebuttal can give anyone a great understanding of the mechanics that worked to give us the Grand Canyon. In fact, even having lived in the state, visited many times, read about the canyon, watched videos about its formation, and hiked through the canyon on several occasions, I have found so much information in this thread that only continues to support the ancient beginnings and the processes that can be seen in the walls. I look forward to visiting again soon and looking at the canyon with even more clear eyes.

The theory of evolution by cumulative natural selection is the only theory we know of that is in principle capable of explaining the existence of organized complexity. - Richard Dawkins

Creationists make it sound as though a 'theory' is something you dreamt up after being drunk all night. - Issac Asimov

If you removed all the arteries, veins, & capillaries from a persons body, and tied them end-to-endthe person will die. - Neil Degrasse Tyson

What would Buddha do? Nothing! What does the Buddhist terrorist do? Goes into the middle of the street, takes the gas, *pfft*, Self-Barbecue. The Christian and the Muslim on either side are yelling, "What the Fuck are you doing?" The Buddhist says, "Making you deal with your shit. - Robin Williams


This message is a reply to:
 Message 1858 by roxrkool, posted 02-04-2014 9:55 PM roxrkool has not yet responded

  
edge
Member
Posts: 3711
From: Colorado, USA
Joined: 01-09-2002
Member Rating: 1.7


(1)
Message 1870 of 1896 (718187)
02-05-2014 9:57 AM
Reply to: Message 1864 by Faith
02-05-2014 6:18 AM


Re: restatement
Your post conveys just about nothing to me so I can't respond to it, except to this part:

As I expected. It appears that I was right in guessing that your knowledge of the earth was just bumper-sticker slogans.

Lateral force buckled the lower strata.

And how did that stress translate to the lower layer?

The buckling pushed upward against the strata above.

So, this force was strong enough to deform the lower layer and uplift the upper layer, but left no deformation in the upper layer.

Sorry, but you're going to need a reference here.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 1864 by Faith, posted 02-05-2014 6:18 AM Faith has not yet responded

  
edge
Member
Posts: 3711
From: Colorado, USA
Joined: 01-09-2002
Member Rating: 1.7


(2)
Message 1871 of 1896 (718189)
02-05-2014 10:04 AM
Reply to: Message 1860 by Faith
02-05-2014 6:00 AM


You're right about that. I don't consider Old Earth science to be reliable testable science, ...

Then you do not agree. You do feel competent to judge. Why do you say that I am right?

... and the technical language only serves to make it inaccessible.

Well, I suppose a minimal amount of knowledge would be assumed. But feel free to criticize.

The technical language is often Old Earth language anyway. Triassic this and Cretaceous that. Which is merely mystification.

Yeah, it's a tough world where words have meaning.

I'm sorry that things aren't easier for you.

Edited by edge, : No reason given.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 1860 by Faith, posted 02-05-2014 6:00 AM Faith has not yet responded

  
edge
Member
Posts: 3711
From: Colorado, USA
Joined: 01-09-2002
Member Rating: 1.7


Message 1872 of 1896 (718190)
02-05-2014 10:10 AM
Reply to: Message 1863 by Faith
02-05-2014 6:15 AM


Re: mountains
That's why I suggested rebound.

You may have suggested it, but you didn't explain it. What rebounded off of what?

You could just say it was a miracle...


This message is a reply to:
 Message 1863 by Faith, posted 02-05-2014 6:15 AM Faith has not yet responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 1875 by herebedragons, posted 02-05-2014 10:47 AM edge has responded

  
herebedragons
Member
Posts: 1251
From: Michigan
Joined: 11-22-2009
Member Rating: 5.7


Message 1873 of 1896 (718191)
02-05-2014 10:20 AM
Reply to: Message 1853 by edge
02-04-2014 6:54 PM


Re: mountains
Faith writes:

I'd guess it was the initial jolt as the continents ripped apart.

Keep in mind that Faith accelerates all tectonic plate movement to occur in 4,300 years. This means the plates were initially moving at 20 feet per day and have gradually slowed down to their current rate. So this "initial jolt" would have to accelerate the plates from a stop to 20 - feet per day which would be a force beyond reckoning - the kind of force that tears planets in half ... or gently folded the Appalachians, either way.

In case Faith accuses me of falsely attributing this concept to her Message 6. To the best of my knowledge she has not recanted from this position even though it was shown to be all but impossible.

HBD

Edited by herebedragons, : Correction: changed 2 feet per day to 20


Whoever calls me ignorant shares my own opinion. Sorrowfully and tacitly I recognize my ignorance, when I consider how much I lack of what my mind in its craving for knowledge is sighing for... I console myself with the consideration that this belongs to our common nature. - Francesco Petrarca

"Nothing is easier than to persuade people who want to be persuaded and already believe." - another Petrarca gem.

Ignorance is a most formidable opponent rivaled only by arrogance; but when the two join forces, one is all but invincible.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 1853 by edge, posted 02-04-2014 6:54 PM edge has not yet responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 1881 by saab93f, posted 02-07-2014 6:14 AM herebedragons has responded

  
herebedragons
Member
Posts: 1251
From: Michigan
Joined: 11-22-2009
Member Rating: 5.7


(1)
Message 1874 of 1896 (718193)
02-05-2014 10:44 AM
Reply to: Message 1865 by RAZD
02-05-2014 8:34 AM


Re: mountains and the names of layers
These are just the "names" of layers, so they designate locations in the geological strata with oldest layers at the bottom and youngest layers at the top.

Even if you ignore the absolute dates of geology in order to make you fantasy conceivable, you still need to pay attention to the relative ages - what layers are below other layers, when plates collided and when they separated.

This is something I find frustrating. YECs think that we all start with the assumption that the earth is old and then build a story to support that premise. When in fact, the exact opposite is true. You don't need absolute ages to determine sequences of events. You can start by assigning very young ages if you wish, and the relative sequence still stands. I have tried and tried to get this across to her, which I see you have picked up on, but to no avail. I guess it is because a YEC begins with an assumption of age and tries to make the data fit the predetermined age and so they assume that is just how science works as well.

Frustrating to no end ....

HBD


Whoever calls me ignorant shares my own opinion. Sorrowfully and tacitly I recognize my ignorance, when I consider how much I lack of what my mind in its craving for knowledge is sighing for... I console myself with the consideration that this belongs to our common nature. - Francesco Petrarca

"Nothing is easier than to persuade people who want to be persuaded and already believe." - another Petrarca gem.

Ignorance is a most formidable opponent rivaled only by arrogance; but when the two join forces, one is all but invincible.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 1865 by RAZD, posted 02-05-2014 8:34 AM RAZD has acknowledged this reply

  
herebedragons
Member
Posts: 1251
From: Michigan
Joined: 11-22-2009
Member Rating: 5.7


(4)
Message 1875 of 1896 (718194)
02-05-2014 10:47 AM
Reply to: Message 1872 by edge
02-05-2014 10:10 AM


Re: mountains
That's why I suggested rebound.

You may have suggested it, but you didn't explain it. What rebounded off of what?

I wonder why the India plate hasn't rebounded off the Asian plate? The size difference is what ... 20 to 1. The India plate should have rebounded into Australia

HBD


Whoever calls me ignorant shares my own opinion. Sorrowfully and tacitly I recognize my ignorance, when I consider how much I lack of what my mind in its craving for knowledge is sighing for... I console myself with the consideration that this belongs to our common nature. - Francesco Petrarca

"Nothing is easier than to persuade people who want to be persuaded and already believe." - another Petrarca gem.

Ignorance is a most formidable opponent rivaled only by arrogance; but when the two join forces, one is all but invincible.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 1872 by edge, posted 02-05-2014 10:10 AM edge has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 1876 by vimesey, posted 02-05-2014 12:32 PM herebedragons has not yet responded
 Message 1877 by edge, posted 02-05-2014 1:24 PM herebedragons has not yet responded

  
RewPrev1
...
122123124
125
126127Next
Newer Topic | Older Topic
Jump to:


Copyright 2001-2015 by EvC Forum, All Rights Reserved

™ Version 4.0 Beta
Innovative software from Qwixotic © 2017