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Author Topic:   The smoldering of EVC
JonF
Member (Idle past 168 days)
Posts: 6174
Joined: 06-23-2003


(2)
Message 62 of 168 (715200)
01-02-2014 9:57 AM
Reply to: Message 48 by Faith
01-02-2014 4:41 AM


Re: The smoldering of EvC
I didn't just say Geology I think I said Old Earth Geology or something like that, because I've read a LOT in basic Geology, and found I already knew some 80% of Dr. A's course when he was posting it here.
Message 683:
... to make the points I want to make on this thread doesn't need sophisticated knowledge of geology, and if I had such knowledge I wouldn't be any less insulting...
Message 847:
I know very little about conventional Old Earth Geology, the names of the supposed eras and all that and I don't want to know more, it's obviously just an elaborate fantasy into which a lot of genuine science is forced to fit, too bad.
So you did say Old Earth geology there, but you made it clear you know very little.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 48 by Faith, posted 01-02-2014 4:41 AM Faith has not replied

  
JonF
Member (Idle past 168 days)
Posts: 6174
Joined: 06-23-2003


(1)
Message 108 of 168 (715403)
01-05-2014 8:59 AM
Reply to: Message 105 by Faith
01-05-2014 7:01 AM


Re: The Unwitnessed / Prehistoric Past
I get the utterly irrelevant response from Jon that "witnesses are notoriously unreliable" as if that had anything whatever to do with the point,
Sorry, but it's very relevant. We can't trust what eyewitnesses claim. Today, yesterday, a century ago, 2000 years ago, 10,000 years ago, the time frame doesn't matter. Eyeitnesses are unreliable.
God has told us that we are to study His creation and His creation is reliable.
Eyewitnesses are not reliable. The traces left by past events are reliable.
Period.
There are plenty of witnesses of all kinds to help the forensic investigator decipher the clues of a case. There are legal documents, case histories, and yes even scientific documents that may help in a particular case and are in the sense I'm using the word "witnesses.
OK, so now you are acknowledging the traces left by past events are "witnesses" and can be relied on. It's a start. Now try applying it.
Historical Geology studies things that exist in a time frame where there are no witnesses of any sort whatever.
By your definition, the rocks are witnesses.
quote:
Witness:
1. a person who sees an event, typically a crime or accident, take place.
2. a person giving sworn testimony to a court of law or the police.synonyms: deponent, testifier More"she cross-examined the witness"
3. a person who is present at the signing of a document and signs it themselves to confirm this.
4. evidence; proof. "the memorial service was witness to the wide circle of his interest".
Apparently you are using the fourth definition. I've been using the first. But that's fine. All you have to do is acknowledge that the rocks are witnesses by your definition.
But all the hooha about how and when they lived is just wild interpretation, which you can get away with because there are no witnesses in the sense I'm using that word to correct you if you're wrong. No dinosaur wrote an account of the Great Extinction event as he saw it coming, as the sky was darkening and his fellow creatures were suffocating.
Whoops, now you're equivocating. You just said that a witness need not be an observer. Now you are denying your earlier definition. Make up your mind.
You CAN go on multiplying error indefinitely because of the -- shall we say -- flexibility of interpretations, and the momentum gained by the particular interpretive scheme you've adopted that is shared by all your colleagues.
Merely revealing your abysmal ignorance.
Oh how I dread the nonsense THIS post is going to elicit. Aaagh.
You should stop posting nonsense.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 105 by Faith, posted 01-05-2014 7:01 AM Faith has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 109 by Percy, posted 01-05-2014 9:03 AM JonF has replied
 Message 112 by Faith, posted 01-05-2014 1:55 PM JonF has replied
 Message 124 by Faith, posted 01-05-2014 4:32 PM JonF has replied

  
JonF
Member (Idle past 168 days)
Posts: 6174
Joined: 06-23-2003


(1)
Message 110 of 168 (715411)
01-05-2014 10:12 AM
Reply to: Message 109 by Percy
01-05-2014 9:03 AM


Re: The Unwitnessed / Prehistoric Past
Yeah, and "flexibility of interpretations" from someone who hasn't a clue about how inescapable the conclusions of mainstream science are when you incorporate all the relevant data and whose interpretations vary to suit the current situation.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 109 by Percy, posted 01-05-2014 9:03 AM Percy has seen this message but not replied

  
JonF
Member (Idle past 168 days)
Posts: 6174
Joined: 06-23-2003


(1)
Message 121 of 168 (715450)
01-05-2014 4:10 PM
Reply to: Message 112 by Faith
01-05-2014 1:55 PM


Re: The Unwitnessed / Prehistoric Past
The Bible still has to be interpreted by human beings.
Not all interpretations are equal. Some are compatible with all the known evidence, others (e.g. yours) are incompatible with even a fraction of the evidence.
Edited by JonF, : No reason given.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 112 by Faith, posted 01-05-2014 1:55 PM Faith has not replied

  
JonF
Member (Idle past 168 days)
Posts: 6174
Joined: 06-23-2003


(2)
Message 122 of 168 (715451)
01-05-2014 4:14 PM
Reply to: Message 118 by Faith
01-05-2014 2:18 PM


Re: The Unwitnessed / Prehistoric Past
We all know you mean it. We also know that you are wrong, and exactly and objectively why you are wrong.
But you can't handle the truth. You are too dedicated to ignorance.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 118 by Faith, posted 01-05-2014 2:18 PM Faith has not replied

  
JonF
Member (Idle past 168 days)
Posts: 6174
Joined: 06-23-2003


(2)
Message 139 of 168 (715509)
01-06-2014 10:33 AM
Reply to: Message 124 by Faith
01-05-2014 4:32 PM


Re: The Unwitnessed / Prehistoric Past
You still have not presented any evidence or even argumentation to support your claims. But you obviously haven't thought your claims through. As usual.
There are plenty of witnesses of all kinds to help the forensic investigator decipher the clues of a case. There are legal documents, case histories, and yes even scientific documents that may help in a particular case and are in the sense I'm using the word "witnesses.
OK, so now you are acknowledging the traces left by past events are "witnesses" and can be relied on. It's a start. Now try applying it.
What I listed are all HUMAN witnesses, documents written by human beings.
No, what you listed were inanimate objects that contain recognizable text in which maybe someone claims to have witnessed some event and reports on it, or someone records their observations and measurements of rocks, or a multitude of other things. Many of those measurements are performed by computer with the final output being the graphs and tables that are placed directly into the paper. "Legal documents, case histories, and yes even scientific documents" do not contain solely recordings of alleged eyewitness testimony.
What I listed are all HUMAN witnesses, documents written by human beings
Scientific documents and case histories contain preserved samples, pointers to sites and measurements that are incorporated into the document by reference, and many other things that are not written by humans.
Historical Geology studies things that exist in a time frame where there are no witnesses of any sort whatever.
By your definition, the rocks are witnesses.
This is completely false. I referred only to written documents as witnesses,. Rocks don't write documents.
For example, rocks are incorporated into scientific documents by reference.
Face it, you just don't have the mental horsepower to hold your own in these discussions.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 124 by Faith, posted 01-05-2014 4:32 PM Faith has not replied

  
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