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Author Topic:   The smoldering of EVC
RAZD
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Posts: 19215
From: the other end of the sidewalk
Joined: 03-14-2004
Member Rating: 2.4


(2)
Message 136 of 160 (715493)
01-05-2014 8:56 PM
Reply to: Message 129 by Faith
01-05-2014 6:26 PM


Re: The Unwitnessed / Prehistoric Past
The documents are not FROM the time in question, or close enough to be authoritative, such as the Book of Genesis of course.

How about the book of Lascaux with it's anatomical depictions of animals living at the time they were made?

http://www.bradshawfoundation.com/lascaux/
http://vimeo.com/40849516

Documents made by humans

Do those count?

Enjoy


we are limited in our ability to understand
by our ability to understand
Rebel American Zen Deist
... to learn ... to think ... to live ... to laugh ...
to share.


• • • Join the effort to solve medical problems, AIDS/HIV, Cancer and more with Team EvC! (click) • • •

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Dr Adequate
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Posts: 15972
Joined: 07-20-2006
Member Rating: 4.4


(8)
Message 137 of 160 (715496)
01-05-2014 9:04 PM
Reply to: Message 135 by RAZD
01-05-2014 8:43 PM


Re: Proposed Thread: Two types of science
I'm not sure what you mean. I've never heard of the field of atheist science -- what do they study?

Reality. The bastards.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 135 by RAZD, posted 01-05-2014 8:43 PM RAZD has responded

Replies to this message:
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RAZD
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Posts: 19215
From: the other end of the sidewalk
Joined: 03-14-2004
Member Rating: 2.4


Message 138 of 160 (715500)
01-05-2014 9:39 PM
Reply to: Message 137 by Dr Adequate
01-05-2014 9:04 PM


Re: Proposed Thread: Two types of science
Reality. The bastards.

Well yes, but all sciences do that. Physics, biology, geology, chemistry, athioloigy?

A study of atheists perhaps?

Edited by RAZD, : .


we are limited in our ability to understand
by our ability to understand
Rebel American Zen Deist
... to learn ... to think ... to live ... to laugh ...
to share.


• • • Join the effort to solve medical problems, AIDS/HIV, Cancer and more with Team EvC! (click) • • •

This message is a reply to:
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JonF
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(2)
Message 139 of 160 (715509)
01-06-2014 10:33 AM
Reply to: Message 124 by Faith
01-05-2014 4:32 PM


Re: The Unwitnessed / Prehistoric Past
You still have not presented any evidence or even argumentation to support your claims. But you obviously haven't thought your claims through. As usual.

There are plenty of witnesses of all kinds to help the forensic investigator decipher the clues of a case. There are legal documents, case histories, and yes even scientific documents that may help in a particular case and are in the sense I'm using the word "witnesses.

OK, so now you are acknowledging the traces left by past events are "witnesses" and can be relied on. It's a start. Now try applying it.

What I listed are all HUMAN witnesses, documents written by human beings.

No, what you listed were inanimate objects that contain recognizable text in which maybe someone claims to have witnessed some event and reports on it, or someone records their observations and measurements of rocks, or a multitude of other things. Many of those measurements are performed by computer with the final output being the graphs and tables that are placed directly into the paper. "Legal documents, case histories, and yes even scientific documents" do not contain solely recordings of alleged eyewitness testimony.

What I listed are all HUMAN witnesses, documents written by human beings

Scientific documents and case histories contain preserved samples, pointers to sites and measurements that are incorporated into the document by reference, and many other things that are not written by humans.

Historical Geology studies things that exist in a time frame where there are no witnesses of any sort whatever.

By your definition, the rocks are witnesses.

This is completely false. I referred only to written documents as witnesses,. Rocks don't write documents.

For example, rocks are incorporated into scientific documents by reference.

Face it, you just don't have the mental horsepower to hold your own in these discussions.


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Coragyps
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Posts: 5295
From: Snyder, Texas, USA
Joined: 11-12-2002
Member Rating: 3.2


(4)
Message 140 of 160 (715513)
01-06-2014 11:13 AM
Reply to: Message 129 by Faith
01-05-2014 6:26 PM


Re: The Unwitnessed / Prehistoric Past
The documents are not FROM the time in question, or close enough to be authoritative, such as the Book of Genesis of course.

And, Faith, in your timeline, just how long was it between Cain killing Abel and Moses writing the report down? A few months? A couple of decades? "Close enough to be authoritative," sure - but how long is that?


"The Christian church, in its attitude toward science, shows the mind of a more or less enlightened man of the Thirteenth Century. It no longer believes that the earth is flat, but it is still convinced that prayer can cure after medicine fails." H L Mencken

This message is a reply to:
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Modulous
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Posts: 7501
From: Manchester, UK
Joined: 05-01-2005
Member Rating: 1.9


Message 141 of 160 (716131)
01-12-2014 6:07 PM
Reply to: Message 15 by Percy
12-31-2013 8:59 AM


As I've described before when declining activity at EvC is discussed, we're also affected by the twin migrations to mobile platforms and social media. Discussion boards are more difficult to use on mobile platforms, and those looking around for something interesting are going to emphasize social media sites like Facebook and Twitter where we have no presence.

I was attracted to forums because I needed websites that updated regularly with interesting material. I think blogs have taken over as the medium du jour for that kind of thing. Maybe you should set up the regulars with blogs, you know with that giant pile of spare time you have.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 15 by Percy, posted 12-31-2013 8:59 AM Percy has responded

Replies to this message:
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Faith
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Posts: 26589
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 142 of 160 (716133)
01-12-2014 6:22 PM
Reply to: Message 140 by Coragyps
01-06-2014 11:13 AM


Re: The Unwitnessed / Prehistoric Past
Oh about two and a half millennia I believe, so of course I'll have to say time isn't the crucial thing after all, won't I? So instead I'll point out what DOES matter: 1) Moses was a prophet who heard directly from God, and 2) the history of Adam and Eve and everything before the Flood would have been passed down orally by the trustworthy clans of the God-fearing line that led up to Noah. Noah himself lived three hundred years after the Flood and would have passed on his knowledge to his descendants, and then his son Shem, who had lived a hundred years before the Flood, also lived a hundred years into Abraham's life span and would have continued the transmission. Abraham's descendants then of course passed it on down to Moses. Time isn't the crucial thing here, but the fact that it got transmitted and written down by God-fearing witnesses is the important thing for us.
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Percy
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Posts: 16152
From: New Hampshire
Joined: 12-23-2000
Member Rating: 2.7


Message 143 of 160 (716159)
01-12-2014 9:53 PM
Reply to: Message 141 by Modulous
01-12-2014 6:07 PM


Hi Modulous,

It's on the todo list. I have a little help now, but I think things are still going to be very slow.

--Percy


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Phat
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Posts: 10028
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.3


Message 144 of 160 (822150)
10-20-2017 7:58 AM
Reply to: Message 55 by Percy
01-02-2014 8:13 AM


Re: The smoldering of EvC
Well well...I learned a new word!

quote:
vi·tu·per·a·tion (vəˌt(y)o͞opəˈrāSHən,vīˌt(y)o͞opəˈrāSHən)
noun
bitter and abusive language.
"no one else attracted such vituperation from him"
synonyms: invective, condemnation, opprobrium, scolding, criticism, disapprobation, fault-finding;...

Concerning this topic...I wonder if we are still smoldering? Is an eruption imminent?


Chance as a real force is a myth. It has no basis in reality and no place in scientific inquiry. For science and philosophy to continue to advance in knowledge, chance must be demythologized once and for all. –RC Sproul
"A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." –Mark Twain "
~"If that's not sufficient for you go soak your head."~Faith
Paul was probably SO soaked in prayer nobody else has ever equaled him.~Faith :)

This message is a reply to:
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Replies to this message:
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Pressie
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Posts: 1824
From: Pretoria, SA
Joined: 06-18-2010
Member Rating: 2.2


Message 145 of 160 (822153)
10-20-2017 8:29 AM
Reply to: Message 144 by Phat
10-20-2017 7:58 AM


Re: The smoldering of EvC
Me, too!

Edited by Pressie, : No reason given.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 144 by Phat, posted 10-20-2017 7:58 AM Phat has not yet responded

    
Pressie
Member
Posts: 1824
From: Pretoria, SA
Joined: 06-18-2010
Member Rating: 2.2


(2)
Message 146 of 160 (822154)
10-20-2017 8:35 AM
Reply to: Message 50 by Faith
01-02-2014 7:39 AM


Re: The smoldering of EvC
This one still is funny to me.

Faith writes:

You guys just don't get it. You CANNOT apply classical scientific method to the UNWITNESSED PAST.

We sure can and we sure do. Paternity tests as one obvious example.

Edited by Pressie, : No reason given.


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 Message 50 by Faith, posted 01-02-2014 7:39 AM Faith has not yet responded

    
Stile
Member
Posts: 3036
From: Ontario, Canada
Joined: 12-02-2004
Member Rating: 3.0


(1)
Message 147 of 160 (822156)
10-20-2017 8:59 AM
Reply to: Message 144 by Phat
10-20-2017 7:58 AM


Re: The smoldering of EvC
Phat writes:

I wonder if we are still smoldering?

As in... the webpage is dying?

Maybe, maybe not. I think Percy has the ability to trend such things as # posts/day or /month if you're really interested, though.

Still seems to going on about the same level it was 4 years ago, as far as I can tell.
Which, to me, is best described as "very active" (as far as my personal experience with other forums goes, anyway).

Based on such anecdotal information, not only is EvC "not smoldering" now... it never was in the first place. The OP here was just complaining as kids do.

Is an eruption imminent?

As in... are we about to get an explosion of new posters/more activity?
Possibly, I guess.

I don't really see a trend for such a thing either, though.
I think it will continue on as it's always continued on... being "very active" and the topics will drift between religious/scientific/political/moral/evolution...

Seems to be no end of ideas to keep talking about, anyway, as life generally creates new aspects/angles/viewpoints as we move along.


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ringo
Member
Posts: 13866
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005
Member Rating: 1.6


Message 148 of 160 (822169)
10-20-2017 12:15 PM
Reply to: Message 144 by Phat
10-20-2017 7:58 AM


Re: The smoldering of EvC
Phat writes:

I wonder if we are still smoldering?


We're aging. After Percy is no more, has ceased to be, is bereft of life, rests in peace, is an ex-admin, etc. then what? Will Admin Jr. keep up the site for those of us who are still pining for the fjords?
This message is a reply to:
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Replies to this message:
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New Cat's Eye
Member
Posts: 11812
From: near St. Louis
Joined: 01-27-2005
Member Rating: 1.6


Message 149 of 160 (822171)
10-20-2017 1:04 PM
Reply to: Message 148 by ringo
10-20-2017 12:15 PM


Re: The smoldering of EvC
We're aging. After Percy is no more, has ceased to be, is bereft of life, rests in peace, is an ex-admin, etc. then what? Will Admin Jr. keep up the site for those of us who are still pining for the fjords?

I don't like the idea of me writing tens of thousands of posts over more than a decade and then one day them just disappearing and being unavailable to myself.

I like reading my old posts from years ago whenever a necromancer comes along and resurrects a dead thread.

I can see myself in the future enjoying reading the old stuff I used to write.

I wish I could get a dump of my posts from the database on a thumb drive.

Percy, I'll pay you.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 148 by ringo, posted 10-20-2017 12:15 PM ringo has acknowledged this reply

  
granpa
Member
Posts: 128
Joined: 10-26-2010


Message 150 of 160 (822175)
10-20-2017 3:01 PM


Gee whiz, you poor atheists have to argue with unscientific creationists. If only there were someone who believed in an old Earth who was willing to discuss the Bible rationally and scientifically. I'm sure it's such a person came along you would No Doubt be deliriously happy to finally talk to someone who is rational and scientific.

http://www.evcforum.net/dm.php?control=msg&t=19570


Why BELIEVE that it will rain today when you can KNOW that it might rain today. Belief is unnecessary and illogical.

A moral person is a person that understands that the universe does not revolve around their ego.

A civilized society is a society whose laws do not revolve around any one person or group of people.
The more a society treats everyone as equals the more civilized it is.


Replies to this message:
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 Message 158 by ringo, posted 10-21-2017 11:51 AM granpa has not yet responded

  
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