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Author Topic:   Why flood geology doesn't work, oil exploration as the example
Faith
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Posts: 24442
Joined: 10-06-2001
Member Rating: 1.0


Message 16 of 78 (721879)
03-13-2014 7:03 AM
Reply to: Message 13 by Taq
03-11-2014 11:23 AM


Re: Glenn Morton
I know about Morton, and have seen through some of his stuff, thanks anyway.

ABE: But I don't want this to become a debate thread so that's the last I'll say on this subject and hope you will drop it too. /ABE

Edited by Faith, : No reason given.


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Faith
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Posts: 24442
Joined: 10-06-2001
Member Rating: 1.0


Message 17 of 78 (721880)
03-13-2014 7:06 AM
Reply to: Message 14 by Coragyps
03-12-2014 12:26 PM


Ah well, so we won't find out about the geology of oil for a while yet. Should make it all the more interesting when we do get it.

All this activity suggests maybe oil exploration isn't as politically dead as some have told us it is.


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Percy
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Posts: 15562
From: New Hampshire
Joined: 12-23-2000
Member Rating: 4.3


Message 18 of 78 (721882)
03-13-2014 7:53 AM
Reply to: Message 15 by Faith
03-13-2014 7:01 AM


Faith writes:

But that's one of the phenomena I hope you will explain, why salt is so frequently found in the vicinity of oil deposits.

I thought it was because salt was impermeable to oil, so oil can become trapped by salt deposits. Reading the Wikipedia article on salt domes I see that this is true, but it's more interesting and complicated than I thought. Apparently salt deposits have a tendency to rise toward the surface, pushing any overlying oil deposits up with them and trapping them between the salt and the overlying rock. Sounds like a rising salt layer collects oil that might be distributed across a great range of depths into a much smaller area, in essence concentrating it.

--Percy


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Faith
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Posts: 24442
Joined: 10-06-2001
Member Rating: 1.0


Message 19 of 78 (721883)
03-13-2014 7:58 AM
Reply to: Message 18 by Percy
03-13-2014 7:53 AM


That's mostly about how they behave together, but doesn't explain why they so frequently occur together in the first place.
This message is a reply to:
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Percy
Member
Posts: 15562
From: New Hampshire
Joined: 12-23-2000
Member Rating: 4.3


Message 20 of 78 (721900)
03-13-2014 9:52 AM
Reply to: Message 19 by Faith
03-13-2014 7:58 AM


Faith writes:

That's mostly about how they behave together, but doesn't explain why they so frequently occur together in the first place.

The salt and the oil were not originally together. The salt was in layers somewhere below the oil. It rose through the strata, encountered the oil, then carried it up with it because the salt layer is impermeable to the oil.

Oil deposits that are trapped with salt domes are relatively easy to extract, but I'm going to speculate that that oil might once have been widely distributed and relatively sparse, the kind of oil deposits we might need to employ fracking to access today. Maybe one of the oil industry people can confirm this.

The first oil (and gas) drilled in the US was associated with salt wells, see the Wikipedia article on the the history of the US oil industry. Presumably the salt and the oil were not originally together, but rather came into close association as the salt rose toward the surface and passed through oil-containing layers.

--Percy


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Taq
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Posts: 6088
Joined: 03-06-2009
Member Rating: 3.7


Message 21 of 78 (721914)
03-13-2014 12:03 PM
Reply to: Message 16 by Faith
03-13-2014 7:03 AM


Re: Glenn Morton
I know about Morton, and have seen through some of his stuff, thanks anyway.
ABE: But I don't want this to become a debate thread so that's the last I'll say on this subject and hope you will drop it too. /ABE

Perhaps you could discuss this further in another thread, if you feel up to it.

Just as another data point, Zion Oil and Gas is a company driven by their interpretation of scripture, a heavily Zionist interpretation.

"I believe Zion Oil & Gas was ordained by G-d for the express purpose of discovering oil and gas in the Land of Israel and to bless the Jewish people and the nation of Israel and the body of Christ (Isaiah 23:18 NIV). I believe that G-d has promised in the Bible to bless Israel with one of the world’s largest oil and gas fields, and this will be discovered in the last days before the Messiah returns and that it will be found on the Joseph License and the Asher/Menashe License, both being on the Head of Joseph (Genesis 49:1-2 and 22-26)"--Josh Brown
http://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Zion_Oil_and_Gas

However, even they have hired real geologists that do not use flood geology. If memory serves, they did try to use flood geology early on, but it has been totally thrown out now. If there was going to be an oil company that used flood geology it would be Zion, and they aren't.


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petrophysics1
Member
Posts: 343
From: Boulder, Wy
Joined: 04-05-2006


Message 22 of 78 (721927)
03-13-2014 1:10 PM
Reply to: Message 19 by Faith
03-13-2014 7:58 AM


Another untrue statement
Faith writes:

That's mostly about how they behave together, but doesn't explain why they so frequently occur together in the first place.

Well oil and gas deposits and salt deposits DO NOT frequently occur together, so your statement is untrue.

Where did you get this inane idea from?


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petrophysics1
Member
Posts: 343
From: Boulder, Wy
Joined: 04-05-2006


Message 23 of 78 (721930)
03-13-2014 1:33 PM
Reply to: Message 20 by Percy
03-13-2014 9:52 AM


Percy,

Salt diapirs make structural traps for oil and gas. Along the top they push the overlying rocks into an anticline in which oil accumulates because oil is lighter than water and rises up to the top of the anticline. Along the sides the diaper creates updipping strata which is sealed by the salt and so also traps oil and gas.

The deposition of the salt and the oil have nothing to do with each other, the salt movement later just creates the structural trap where oil and gas can accumulate.


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Faith
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Posts: 24442
Joined: 10-06-2001
Member Rating: 1.0


Message 24 of 78 (721931)
03-13-2014 1:44 PM
Reply to: Message 22 by petrophysics1
03-13-2014 1:10 PM


Re: Another untrue statement
I got it off the internet when researching the subject a while back, Wikipedia I would have thought but I don't remember what the search term was now.

ABE: I got the information about how the salt traps the oil too, but that part is clear enough. There was a quote from somebody from before the oil industry got going about how frustrating it was to be looking for salt and coming up with all this sludgy oil. But if the association isn't all that predictable, fine, no need to call me names. I didn't make it up.

Edited by Faith, : No reason given.


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petrophysics1
Member
Posts: 343
From: Boulder, Wy
Joined: 04-05-2006


Message 25 of 78 (721944)
03-13-2014 5:31 PM
Reply to: Message 15 by Faith
03-13-2014 7:01 AM


More untrue statements
Faith writes:

Of course not, they had to have formed afterward

Another untrue statement.

BTW I have worked on heavy oil deposits in Canada back in the early 1980's which are producing today. Why is it you ask me about your Canadian Property instead of some "flood geologist"?

Edited by petrophysics1, : No reason given.


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Faith
Member
Posts: 24442
Joined: 10-06-2001
Member Rating: 1.0


Message 26 of 78 (721951)
03-13-2014 10:01 PM
Reply to: Message 25 by petrophysics1
03-13-2014 5:31 PM


Re: More untrue statements
If there was a worldwide Flood 4300 years ago, then the evaporites would have had to have formed afterward. It's perfectly logical.
\
Look I just want to hear how you find oil, I didn't want to get into a debate with you.

ABE: If your scenario suggests a Flood Geology as it proceeds, I'll certainly let you know.

Edited by Faith, : No reason given.

Edited by Faith, : No reason given.


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Percy
Member
Posts: 15562
From: New Hampshire
Joined: 12-23-2000
Member Rating: 4.3


Message 27 of 78 (721966)
03-14-2014 7:19 AM
Reply to: Message 22 by petrophysics1
03-13-2014 1:10 PM


Re: Another untrue statement
petrophysics1 writes:

Well oil and gas deposits and salt deposits DO NOT frequently occur together, so your statement is untrue.

Where did you get this inane idea from?

She may have found it at the Wikipedia article on salt tectonics:

Wikipedia writes:

A significant proportion of the world’s hydrocarbon reserves are found in structures related to salt tectonics, including many in the Middle East, the South Atlantic passive margins (Brazil, Gabon and Angola) and the Gulf of Mexico.

--Percy


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Percy
Member
Posts: 15562
From: New Hampshire
Joined: 12-23-2000
Member Rating: 4.3


(3)
Message 28 of 78 (721967)
03-14-2014 7:34 AM
Reply to: Message 26 by Faith
03-13-2014 10:01 PM


Re: More untrue statements
Faith writes:

If there was a worldwide Flood 4300 years ago, then the evaporites would have had to have formed afterward. It's perfectly logical.

Since evaporites are found at all levels of the geologic column, and since an evaporite must be exposed to the atmosphere before it can, uh, evaporate, your perfect logic requires that the entire geologic column be post flood.

--Percy


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Replies to this message:
 Message 29 by Faith, posted 03-14-2014 1:59 PM Percy has responded
 Message 31 by Faith, posted 03-14-2014 2:27 PM Percy has responded

    
Faith
Member
Posts: 24442
Joined: 10-06-2001
Member Rating: 1.0


Message 29 of 78 (722025)
03-14-2014 1:59 PM
Reply to: Message 28 by Percy
03-14-2014 7:34 AM


Re: More untrue statements
Not if there is some explanation for the evaporation of the salts after the column was laid down. But the logical point remains straightforward. It has to have occurred after the Flood simply because it couldn't have occurred before or during and that remains true. HOW is another question.

Edited by Faith, : No reason given.


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Replies to this message:
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RAZD
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Posts: 18257
From: the other end of the sidewalk
Joined: 03-14-2004
Member Rating: 3.3


(1)
Message 30 of 78 (722030)
03-14-2014 2:20 PM
Reply to: Message 29 by Faith
03-14-2014 1:59 PM


Re: More untrue statements
Because there is no other explanation, other than magical behavior contrary to what is observed or evidence intentionally created to misrepresent reality.

.


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