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Author Topic:   Ancient Biblical ritual saves MILLIONS of lives
Phat
Member
Posts: 9892
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.4


Message 16 of 98 (720603)
02-25-2014 10:46 AM
Reply to: Message 15 by Tangle
02-25-2014 10:39 AM


Re: Hacks
Lifespans were not all that long back then. Maybe someone had the bright idea to notice that women got infected a lot after having had sexual relations and that ...upon observation....men had dirty organs. Surely the nobler castes realized that in order to preserve their lineage, something would have to be done with that diseased organ. So they took off the extra flesh.

Lemme see what the internet has to say....

Wiki writes:

About one-third of males worldwide are circumcised.[1][16] The procedure is most prevalent in the Muslim world and Israel (where it is near-universal), the United States and parts of Southeast Asia and Africa; it is relatively rare in Europe, Latin America, parts of Southern Africa and most of Asia.[1] The origin of circumcision is not known with certainty; the oldest documentary evidence for it comes from ancient Egypt.[1] Various theories have been proposed as to its origin, including as a religious sacrifice and as a rite of passage marking a boy's entrance into adulthood.[19] It is part of religious law in Judaism[20] and is an established practice in Islam, Coptic Christianity and the Ethiopian Orthodox Church.[1][21][22]

So is there any current evidence that uncircumcised men...today...are a greater health risk?
This message is a reply to:
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Replies to this message:
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vimesey
Member
Posts: 888
From: Birmingham, England
Joined: 09-21-2011


Message 17 of 98 (720606)
02-25-2014 10:53 AM
Reply to: Message 16 by Phat
02-25-2014 10:46 AM


Re: Hacks
So is there any current evidence that uncircumcised men...today...are a greater health risk?

The capacity of the uncircumcised two thirds, to do their part in sustaining two thirds of the world's population, suggests not ;-)


Could there be any greater conceit, than for someone to believe that the universe has to be simple enough for them to be able to understand it ?

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 Message 16 by Phat, posted 02-25-2014 10:46 AM Phat has acknowledged this reply

    
Diomedes
Member
Posts: 664
From: Central Florida, USA
Joined: 09-13-2013
Member Rating: 3.9


(1)
Message 18 of 98 (720607)
02-25-2014 10:55 AM
Reply to: Message 15 by Tangle
02-25-2014 10:39 AM


Re: Hacks
God's a bloke, right? No way would he have got the design of the dick wrong. (And so small...)

Follow-up question: if god created man in his own image, does god still have his foreskin?


"Our future lies not in our dogmatic past, but in our enlightened present"

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vimesey
Member
Posts: 888
From: Birmingham, England
Joined: 09-21-2011


Message 19 of 98 (720609)
02-25-2014 11:00 AM
Reply to: Message 18 by Diomedes
02-25-2014 10:55 AM


Re: Hacks
Very good point !

And if He hasn't, just imagine the bragging rights you'd get if you were God's mohel.


Could there be any greater conceit, than for someone to believe that the universe has to be simple enough for them to be able to understand it ?

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ringo
Member
Posts: 13727
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005
Member Rating: 1.7


Message 20 of 98 (720614)
02-25-2014 11:14 AM


In before the fundies....
The foreskin was originated by The Fall.
Replies to this message:
 Message 21 by vimesey, posted 02-25-2014 11:20 AM ringo has responded

  
vimesey
Member
Posts: 888
From: Birmingham, England
Joined: 09-21-2011


Message 21 of 98 (720615)
02-25-2014 11:20 AM
Reply to: Message 20 by ringo
02-25-2014 11:14 AM


Re: In before the fundies....
Since the foreskin's purpose seems to be to accommodate larger erections, can we therefore assume that The Fall resulted in bigger boners ?

Could there be any greater conceit, than for someone to believe that the universe has to be simple enough for them to be able to understand it ?

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 Message 20 by ringo, posted 02-25-2014 11:14 AM ringo has responded

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ringo
Member
Posts: 13727
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005
Member Rating: 1.7


Message 22 of 98 (720616)
02-25-2014 11:27 AM
Reply to: Message 21 by vimesey
02-25-2014 11:20 AM


Re: In before the fundies....
vimesey writes:

Since the foreskin's purpose seems to be to accommodate larger erections, can we therefore assume that The Fall resulted in bigger boners ?


Well, Eve did put clothes on which some people (not me) consider sexier than total nudity.
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Faith
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Posts: 26449
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001
Member Rating: 1.1


(2)
Message 23 of 98 (720624)
02-25-2014 1:50 PM
Reply to: Message 1 by Eliyahu
02-25-2014 7:35 AM


Although the idea somehow caught on that circumcision has some protective function, it's utterly ridiculous to think that's why God required it of Abraham. People do the same thing with the ancient food laws, claim they are simply the best food for people to eat, and make up all kinds of rationalizations for why that is. However, in the New Testament both circumcision and the Jewish food laws are declared to be inapplicable to the Gentiles who are becoming believers. It's absurd to think Gentiles would have been excluded from practices that have to do with health.

Both circumcision and the food laws are presented in scripture in the context of setting Israel apart from her Gentile neighbors. Circumcision sealed the covenant with God, the food laws kept the people from eating foods sacrificed by the heathen nations to their demon gods. Also some foods are symbolic or "types" of demonic creatures. Trying to give all this a medical meaning is to give a worldly meaning where an unworldly meaning was intended and to obscure God's true purpose in creating for Himself a holy people, a people set apart from the other nations of this world.

Edited by Faith, : No reason given.

Edited by Faith, : No reason given.


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Faith
Member
Posts: 26449
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 24 of 98 (720626)
02-25-2014 2:05 PM
Reply to: Message 23 by Faith
02-25-2014 1:50 PM


Circumcision is also symbolic, symbolic of the removal of the "flesh" or the "world" from around the "heart" which is symbolic of the human spirit, thus releasing the human spirit which had been buried in the flesh. God is making for himself a spiritual people out of a fleshly people. This was fulfilled through the Messiah, Jesus Christ, as were all the other symbols and types of the Old Testament.
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Replies to this message:
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Eliyahu
Member (Idle past 366 days)
Posts: 286
From: Judah
Joined: 07-23-2013


Message 25 of 98 (720636)
02-25-2014 4:55 PM
Reply to: Message 23 by Faith
02-25-2014 1:50 PM


Trying to give all this a medical meaning is to give a worldly meaning where an unworldly meaning was intended

Bs'd

Fact of the matter is, it HAS a medical meaning.

Fact is, it saved and is saving millions of lives.

Hard to overlook that medical meaning.



"The only reality is mind and observations."

Richard Conn Henry, Cambridge professor department of physics

This message is a reply to:
 Message 23 by Faith, posted 02-25-2014 1:50 PM Faith has not yet responded

Replies to this message:
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New Cat's Eye
Member
Posts: 11761
From: near St. Louis
Joined: 01-27-2005
Member Rating: 1.6


Message 26 of 98 (720637)
02-25-2014 5:01 PM
Reply to: Message 25 by Eliyahu
02-25-2014 4:55 PM


Fact of the matter is, it HAS a medical meaning.

You haven't ruled out coincidence, so no, its not a fact of the matter.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 25 by Eliyahu, posted 02-25-2014 4:55 PM Eliyahu has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 30 by Eliyahu, posted 02-25-2014 11:38 PM New Cat's Eye has responded

  
snapdragon
Junior Member
Posts: 3
Joined: 01-20-2012


Message 27 of 98 (720642)
02-25-2014 8:31 PM


I would think transmission of STDs via orogenital suction might give one pause when crowing about disease prevention. NYS DOH just issued a health advisory regarding HSV. Really, how did anyone ever think this particular practice (mohel sucking the blood) was a good idea?

Edited by snapdragon, : No spelchek on phone...

Edited by snapdragon, : Hsv not cmv


    
Pressie
Member
Posts: 1808
From: Pretoria, SA
Joined: 06-18-2010
Member Rating: 2.2


(2)
Message 28 of 98 (720647)
02-25-2014 10:44 PM
Reply to: Message 1 by Eliyahu
02-25-2014 7:35 AM


Couldn't he have just given them a recipe for producing a bar of soap? That would have been much less traumatic than cutting the skin off.
This message is a reply to:
 Message 1 by Eliyahu, posted 02-25-2014 7:35 AM Eliyahu has responded

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Coyote
Member
Posts: 6013
Joined: 01-12-2008
Member Rating: 2.4


(1)
Message 29 of 98 (720651)
02-25-2014 11:12 PM


The unkindest cut of all...
The term for this in anthropology is "ritual genital mutilation."

Any correlation between circumcision and arid regions where there is insufficient water for bathing (or cultures which did not emphasize bathing). Hmmmm.


Religious belief does not constitute scientific evidence, nor does it convey scientific knowledge.

Belief gets in the way of learning--Robert A. Heinlein

How can I possibly put a new idea into your heads, if I do not first remove your delusions?--Robert A. Heinlein

It's not what we don't know that hurts, it's what we know that ain't so--Will Rogers

If I am entitled to something, someone else is obliged to pay--Jerry Pournelle

If a religion's teachings are true, then it should have nothing to fear from science...--dwise1


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Eliyahu
Member (Idle past 366 days)
Posts: 286
From: Judah
Joined: 07-23-2013


Message 30 of 98 (720653)
02-25-2014 11:38 PM
Reply to: Message 26 by New Cat's Eye
02-25-2014 5:01 PM


You haven't ruled out coincidence, so no, its not a fact of the matter.

Bs'd

Coincedence or not, it is a fact that that Biblical ritual saves millions of lives and prevents untold human suffering.

And that is not the only Biblical law that turns out to be very benificial. If you keep on stacking "coincidence" on "coincicence", then it becomes very silly to keep on believing in coincidence.



"The only reality is mind and observations."

Richard Conn Henry, Cambridge professor department of physics

This message is a reply to:
 Message 26 by New Cat's Eye, posted 02-25-2014 5:01 PM New Cat's Eye has responded

Replies to this message:
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