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Author Topic:   The Divine signature in the Torah
Dr Adequate
Member
Posts: 15468
Joined: 07-20-2006
Member Rating: 3.8


Message 91 of 139 (721599)
03-10-2014 1:47 AM
Reply to: Message 88 by Eliyahu
03-10-2014 1:18 AM


Whether you like it or not, that's how science works.

Can you name one single scientific result that has become established simply by going unnoticed?

See message 87

Thank you, that may well be what I'm looking for.

That is true, as one can see, by just reading the the paper.

If you have read the paper, and continue to recite this falsehood, then you are a deliberate liar.

Have you gone completely mad that you think flawed papers are published in peer reviewed scientific journals??

That would be madness?

Very well --- according to you, was the paper by McKay et al, which was published in a peer-reviewed scientific journal, indeed the same peer-reviewed scientific journal (a) flawed (b) not flawed?


This message is a reply to:
 Message 88 by Eliyahu, posted 03-10-2014 1:18 AM Eliyahu has not yet responded

  
Dr Adequate
Member
Posts: 15468
Joined: 07-20-2006
Member Rating: 3.8


Message 92 of 139 (721600)
03-10-2014 2:00 AM


Great Is Truth, And Shall Slip Under The Radar
"What you have now said," rejoined the father, "would require to be modified a little. Pay attention now, while I explain our method, and you will observe the progress of a new opinion, from its birth to its maturity. First, the grave doctor who invented it exhibits it to the world, casting it abroad like seed, that it may take root. In this state it is very feeble; it requires time gradually to ripen. This accounts for Diana, who has introduced a great many of these opinions, saying: 'I advance this opinion; but as it is new, I give it time to come to maturity- relinquo tempori maturandum.' Thus in a few years it becomes insensibly consolidated; and, after a considerable time, it is sanctioned by the tacit approbation of the Church, according to the grand maxim of Father Bauny, 'that if an opinion has been advanced by some casuist, and has not been impugned by the Church, it is a sign that she approves of it.' And, in fact, on this principle he authenticates one of his own principles in his sixth treatise, p. 312."

"Indeed, father! " cried I, "why, on this principle the Church would approve of all the abuses which she tolerates, and all the errors in all the books which she does not censure!" --- Pascal, Provincial Letters

Plus a change ...

Edited by Dr Adequate, : No reason given.


  
Dr Adequate
Member
Posts: 15468
Joined: 07-20-2006
Member Rating: 3.8


(2)
Message 93 of 139 (721601)
03-10-2014 2:09 AM
Reply to: Message 87 by Eliyahu
03-10-2014 1:03 AM


Eliyahu Rips, Art Levitt: The Twin Towers Cluster in Torah Codes. 408-411

I've got to admit, this is impressive.

Oh, wait.

That's the Hebrew translation of War And Peace.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 87 by Eliyahu, posted 03-10-2014 1:03 AM Eliyahu has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 95 by Eliyahu, posted 03-10-2014 2:37 AM Dr Adequate has responded

  
Eliyahu
Member (Idle past 154 days)
Posts: 286
From: Judah
Joined: 07-23-2013


Message 94 of 139 (721602)
03-10-2014 2:35 AM
Reply to: Message 89 by TrueCreation
03-10-2014 1:34 AM


This happens quite often. You also previously referenced conference abstracts as if these were 'peer reviewed literature', demonstrating that you haven't the slightest clue what you are talking about.

Bs'd

You think that would happen with an extremely controversial article, which has been reviewed for six years, and for which the wolds best experts are consulted?



"The only reality is mind and observations."

Richard Conn Henry, professor Johns Hopkin department of physics

This message is a reply to:
 Message 89 by TrueCreation, posted 03-10-2014 1:34 AM TrueCreation has not yet responded

    
Eliyahu
Member (Idle past 154 days)
Posts: 286
From: Judah
Joined: 07-23-2013


Message 95 of 139 (721603)
03-10-2014 2:37 AM
Reply to: Message 93 by Dr Adequate
03-10-2014 2:09 AM


I've got to admit, this is impressive.

Oh, wait.

That's the Hebrew translation of War And Peace.

Bs'd

Can you enlighten us on the statistical relevence of that particular code?

Oh wait, there isn't any...



"The only reality is mind and observations."

Richard Conn Henry, professor Johns Hopkin department of physics

This message is a reply to:
 Message 93 by Dr Adequate, posted 03-10-2014 2:09 AM Dr Adequate has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 100 by Dr Adequate, posted 03-10-2014 11:57 AM Eliyahu has not yet responded

    
Eliyahu
Member (Idle past 154 days)
Posts: 286
From: Judah
Joined: 07-23-2013


Message 96 of 139 (721604)
03-10-2014 2:47 AM


Bs'd

It all boils down to this: Can anybody point out a fatal flaw in all of the six papers presented at the 2006 ICPR, each presenting a different approach and a different code?

If not, then for all intent and purposes, the Torah codes have been scientifically proven, and the debate is over.



"The only reality is mind and observations."

Richard Conn Henry, professor Johns Hopkin department of physics

Replies to this message:
 Message 97 by NoNukes, posted 03-10-2014 8:34 AM Eliyahu has not yet responded

    
NoNukes
Member
Posts: 9314
From: Central NC USA
Joined: 08-13-2010
Member Rating: 2.6


(1)
Message 97 of 139 (721607)
03-10-2014 8:34 AM
Reply to: Message 96 by Eliyahu
03-10-2014 2:47 AM


Can anybody point out a fatal flaw in all of the six papers presented at the 2006 ICPR, each presenting a different approach and a different code.

If not, then for all intent and purposes, the Torah codes have been scientifically proven, and the debate is over.

What papers?


Under a government which imprisons any unjustly, the true place for a just man is also in prison. Thoreau: Civil Disobedience (1846)

I have never met a man so ignorant that I couldn't learn something from him. Galileo Galilei

If there is no struggle, there is no progress. Those who profess to favor freedom, and deprecate agitation, are men who want crops without plowing up the ground, they want rain without thunder and lightning. Frederick Douglass


This message is a reply to:
 Message 96 by Eliyahu, posted 03-10-2014 2:47 AM Eliyahu has not yet responded

    
Eliyahu
Member (Idle past 154 days)
Posts: 286
From: Judah
Joined: 07-23-2013


Message 98 of 139 (721611)
03-10-2014 9:46 AM


Bs'd

Some more about the upcoming festival of Purim, the Esther story:

we read there that Haman, the evil one who wanted to murder all the Jews, was defeated, and his ten sons were killed: "5 The Jews struck down all their enemies with the sword, killing and destroying them, and they did what they pleased to those who hated them. 6 In the citadel of Susa, the Jews killed and destroyed five hundred men. 7 They also killed Parshandatha, Dalphon, Aspatha, 8 Poratha, Adalia, Aridatha, 9 Parmashta, Arisai, Aridai and Vaizatha, 10 the ten sons of Haman son of Hammedatha, the enemy of the Jews."
Esther 9.

And then there came a curious request of queen Esther. The king allowed her to make a wish: "The king said to Queen Esther, In the citadel of Susa the Jews have killed five hundred people and also the ten sons of Haman. What have they done in the rest of the kings provinces? Now what is your petition? It shall be granted you. And what further is your request? It shall be fulfilled. 13 Esther said, If it pleases the king, let the Jews who are in Susa be allowed tomorrow also to do according to this days edict, and let the ten sons of Haman be hanged on the gallows." Ibid

So the dead sons of Haman were hanged on the gallows. What was the use of that? They were dead already, they couldn't make them more dead than dead. But anyway, there they were hanging, and the Jews were saved from the mass murder that Haman had in mind for them.

This fortunate turn of events is being celebrated every year with the purim feast, as prescribed in the book of Esther: "Mordecai recorded these things, and sent letters to all the Jews who were in all the provinces of King Ahasuerus, both near and far, 21 enjoining them that they should keep the fourteenth day of the month Adar and also the fifteenth day of the same month, year by year, 22 as the days on which the Jews gained relief from their enemies, and as the month that had been turned for them from sorrow into gladness and from mourning into a holiday; that they should make them days of feasting and gladness, days for sending gifts of food to one another and presents to the poor. 23 So the Jews adopted as a custom what they had begun to do, as Mordecai had written to them." Ibid

The names of the ten sons of the evil Haman who were hanged, are mentioned in the Esther scroll: 6 In the citadel of Susa the Jews killed and destroyed five hundred people. 7 They killed Parshandatha, Dalphon, Aspatha, 8 Poratha, Adalia, Aridatha, 9 Parmashta, Arisai, Aridai, Vaizatha, 10 the ten sons of Haman Ibid

In the Esther scroll these ten names of the sons of Haman, are written one underneath the other, on the right side, and on the left side is written and, see here:

What we notice here, is that three letters are written smaller than the rest. This is done for thousands of years, and nobody knows why. We see that in the first name, the one but last letter, a tav, is smaller than the rest. In the seventh name we see that the fourth letter, (from the right) a shin, is written small, And in the last name, the third letter, a zayin, is written small.

Also we notice, that the first letter of the last name, a waav, is written bigger than usual.
Like I said, why that is is not known, it is just a matter of tradition, like That's the way we do it, and that's it.

The interesting part is, that every Hebrew letter has a numerical value. For instance, that small tav has a value of 400, the small shin a value of 300, and the small zayin a value of 7, making together 707.

And there is the big waav, with a numerical value of 6.
These numbers can be read as a date. The 707 pointing to years, the big waav pointing to the sixth millennium in which we live right now, giving us the year 5707. In the Christian counting of the years that year would start in 1946. And it just happened to be so, that in that year were the Neurenberger trials of nazi war criminals. Twelve of them were convicted to death by hanging. One they didn't have. Another one, Goering, in the night before his hanging, he swallowed a poison capsule, and he escaped the gallows. So on the date of 21 Tishrei 5707, ten nazi war criminals, Jew-murderers, were hanged.
When Julius Streicher was led upon the scaffold, he said: Now I'm going to God!

And Newsweek magazine of 28 Okt 1946 said http://archive.is/Q6QTg that just before the trapdoor to eternity opened up underneath his feet, he called out: Purim fest 1946!

Isn't that interesting?



"The only reality is mind and observations."

Richard Conn Henry, professor Johns Hopkin department of physics

Replies to this message:
 Message 99 by New Cat's Eye, posted 03-10-2014 10:11 AM Eliyahu has not yet responded

    
New Cat's Eye
Member
Posts: 11171
From: near St. Louis
Joined: 01-27-2005
Member Rating: 1.7


Message 99 of 139 (721613)
03-10-2014 10:11 AM
Reply to: Message 98 by Eliyahu
03-10-2014 9:46 AM


Isn't that interesting?

Not at all. I didn't even read it. Everyone who isn't a dishonest Jew knows that the "Bible Code" stuff is all a bunch of bullshit.

You just like it because you want to prop up your faith. Unbiased readers realize its a load of crap.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 98 by Eliyahu, posted 03-10-2014 9:46 AM Eliyahu has not yet responded

  
Dr Adequate
Member
Posts: 15468
Joined: 07-20-2006
Member Rating: 3.8


Message 100 of 139 (721629)
03-10-2014 11:57 AM
Reply to: Message 95 by Eliyahu
03-10-2014 2:37 AM


Can you enlighten us on the statistical relevence of that particular code?

Can you enlighten us as to what that gibberish is supposed to mean?

While you're thinking that one over, can you find us a similarly impressive 9/11 "prediction" in the Torah?


This message is a reply to:
 Message 95 by Eliyahu, posted 03-10-2014 2:37 AM Eliyahu has not yet responded

  
NoNukes
Member
Posts: 9314
From: Central NC USA
Joined: 08-13-2010
Member Rating: 2.6


Message 101 of 139 (721638)
03-10-2014 1:48 PM
Reply to: Message 85 by Eliyahu
03-10-2014 12:14 AM


If there were any flaws in it, it would never have been published in a peer reviewed journal to begin with.

This idea of yours is wrong and no one familiar with the scientific method would maintain such a position. Peer review does not establish the accuracy of the paper. Peer review means only that there is sufficient analysis for the paper to be of interest to others in the field. You are aware that the paper was rejected by another journal during peer review, right?

The true test of a scientific paper is in the testing and replication of results by others in the field. The paper should provide enough data to do that and enough analysis to check the author's work.

Otherwise we could say that Pons papers on Cold Fusion established that he was correct about the subject.

In this particular case, we have the quoted remarks of one of the peer reviewers who stated explicitly the nature of his review, and his final conclusion that the paper was bunk.

Are we to believe that whoever publishes last is correct? Are we to believe that the 1999 peer reviewed paper debunking WRR's paper is of lesser quality than the 1994 paper.

Your reasoning is hogwash. There are published, peer reviewed and otherwise critiques of WRR's paper. The correct way to decide who is correct is to analyze the papers and not to simply date them or look at who has gotten in the last word.

I understand that the indirect methods you use for evaluating the papers is the only possibility for you since you refuse to even speak to the actual arguments made by either side. Well, sorry, but just because you are doing the best you can does not mean your efforts are good enough.

Edited by NoNukes, : No reason given.


Under a government which imprisons any unjustly, the true place for a just man is also in prison. Thoreau: Civil Disobedience (1846)

I have never met a man so ignorant that I couldn't learn something from him. Galileo Galilei

If there is no struggle, there is no progress. Those who profess to favor freedom, and deprecate agitation, are men who want crops without plowing up the ground, they want rain without thunder and lightning. Frederick Douglass


This message is a reply to:
 Message 85 by Eliyahu, posted 03-10-2014 12:14 AM Eliyahu has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 102 by Eliyahu, posted 03-10-2014 2:40 PM NoNukes has not yet responded

    
Eliyahu
Member (Idle past 154 days)
Posts: 286
From: Judah
Joined: 07-23-2013


Message 102 of 139 (721640)
03-10-2014 2:40 PM
Reply to: Message 101 by NoNukes
03-10-2014 1:48 PM


The correct way to decide who is correct is to analyze the papers and not to simply date them or look at who has gotten in the last word.

Bs'd

That's your opinion.

This is the scientific viewpoint:

According to scientific rules, in order for critics to disprove the Torah codes, they would have to find fatal flaws in each of the six papers presenting a different approach and a different code. This happened five years ago, and to date not a single flaw was found in any of these papers. Therefore, for all intent and purposes, the Torah codes have been scientifically proven, and the debate is over.

So, for all intent and purposes, the Torah codes have been scientifically proven, and the debate is over.

Have a nice day.

.
.
.



"The only reality is mind and observations."

Richard Conn Henry, professor Johns Hopkin department of physics

This message is a reply to:
 Message 101 by NoNukes, posted 03-10-2014 1:48 PM NoNukes has not yet responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 103 by New Cat's Eye, posted 03-10-2014 4:02 PM Eliyahu has not yet responded
 Message 104 by Dr Adequate, posted 03-10-2014 8:11 PM Eliyahu has not yet responded
 Message 105 by AZPaul3, posted 03-10-2014 9:17 PM Eliyahu has responded

    
New Cat's Eye
Member
Posts: 11171
From: near St. Louis
Joined: 01-27-2005
Member Rating: 1.7


(1)
Message 103 of 139 (721642)
03-10-2014 4:02 PM
Reply to: Message 102 by Eliyahu
03-10-2014 2:40 PM


So, for all intent and purposes, the Torah codes have been scientifically proven, and the debate is over.

You're hilarious!


This message is a reply to:
 Message 102 by Eliyahu, posted 03-10-2014 2:40 PM Eliyahu has not yet responded

  
Dr Adequate
Member
Posts: 15468
Joined: 07-20-2006
Member Rating: 3.8


Message 104 of 139 (721645)
03-10-2014 8:11 PM
Reply to: Message 102 by Eliyahu
03-10-2014 2:40 PM


This is the scientific viewpoint:

No.

Let me ask you again. Can you think of a single scientific truth which has become established by being ignored?

Edited by Dr Adequate, : No reason given.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 102 by Eliyahu, posted 03-10-2014 2:40 PM Eliyahu has not yet responded

  
AZPaul3
Member
Posts: 3422
From: Phoenix
Joined: 11-06-2006
Member Rating: 5.0


Message 105 of 139 (721646)
03-10-2014 9:17 PM
Reply to: Message 102 by Eliyahu
03-10-2014 2:40 PM


According to scientific rules, in order for critics to disprove the Torah codes, they would have to find fatal flaws in each of the six papers presenting a different approach and a different code. This happened five years ago, and to date not a single flaw was found in any of these papers. Therefore, for all intent and purposes, the Torah codes have been scientifically proven, and the debate is over.

Well, this certainly didn't come from any knowledgeable scientist, science text or philosophy of science. Sounds like it came from a religionist with his back against the wall and getting his teeth kicked in (metaphorically speaking) because of some inane argument that has been thoroughly destroyed going on two decades now. Reminds me of your attempt to mark punctuated equilibrium as the death knell of evolution. Silly man.

Nothing is ever proven in science. Only in religion can you be absolutely certain something is proven with little evidence, weak evidence or no evidence at all. This has been one of the hallmarks of religion for millennia.

The problem with those papers you keep citing is that, just like creation science, they are done by a small cadre of true believers publishing over and over and for whom no amount of reality will suffice. And if you read the damn things they are not "proofs" of anything, but different techniques to manipulate the data. Frankly, it really doesn't matter what gun and bullets you used when you go and paint your bullseyes around the bullet holes.

You are right about one thing. The debate is over ... has been over for more than 20 years. Your bible codes are shown to be bunk and always have been bunk.

Just like with Gould and Eldredge you were wrong again. It's time for you to go find the next thing you can be wrong about.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 102 by Eliyahu, posted 03-10-2014 2:40 PM Eliyahu has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 106 by Eliyahu, posted 03-11-2014 12:07 AM AZPaul3 has responded

  
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