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Author Topic:   The Divine signature in the Torah
Eliyahu
Member (Idle past 280 days)
Posts: 286
From: Judah
Joined: 07-23-2013


Message 106 of 139 (721652)
03-11-2014 12:07 AM
Reply to: Message 105 by AZPaul3
03-10-2014 9:17 PM


The problem with those papers you keep citing is that, just like creation science, they are done by a small cadre of true believers publishing over and over and for whom no amount of reality will suffice. And if you read the damn things they are not "proofs" of anything, but different techniques to manipulate the data.

Bs'd

The only problem with that statement is, that it is the rantings of a layman, who cannot bring the slightest proof for his blabber.

The fact of the matter is, that the religion hating scientific community has had now 8 years to refute these papers, and they came up with exactly nothting.

There are plenty mathematicians out there with a lot of time on their hands who, just like you, hate religion and the Bible codes, who could have written a rebuttal in the past eight years, and made a name for themselves as the one who debunked the Bible codes.

That just didn't happen, for the simple reason that there is no rebuttal, and they didn't want to make a fool of themselves.


According to scientific rules, in order for critics to disprove the Torah codes, they would have to find fatal flaws in each of the six papers presenting a different approach and a different code. This happened five years ago, and to date not a single flaw was found in any of these papers. Therefore, for all intent and purposes, the Torah codes have been scientifically proven, and the debate is over.
Harold Gans, mathematician and professional code breaker

This message is a reply to:
 Message 105 by AZPaul3, posted 03-10-2014 9:17 PM AZPaul3 has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 107 by NoNukes, posted 03-11-2014 12:20 AM Eliyahu has not yet responded
 Message 108 by NoNukes, posted 03-11-2014 12:26 AM Eliyahu has responded
 Message 109 by Dr Adequate, posted 03-11-2014 12:43 AM Eliyahu has not yet responded
 Message 112 by AZPaul3, posted 03-11-2014 8:27 AM Eliyahu has not yet responded

    
NoNukes
Member
Posts: 9736
From: Central NC USA
Joined: 08-13-2010
Member Rating: 3.1


Message 107 of 139 (721654)
03-11-2014 12:20 AM
Reply to: Message 106 by Eliyahu
03-11-2014 12:07 AM


[duplicate]

Edited by NoNukes, : No reason given.


Under a government which imprisons any unjustly, the true place for a just man is also in prison. Thoreau: Civil Disobedience (1846)

I have never met a man so ignorant that I couldn't learn something from him. Galileo Galilei

If there is no struggle, there is no progress. Those who profess to favor freedom, and deprecate agitation, are men who want crops without plowing up the ground, they want rain without thunder and lightning. Frederick Douglass


This message is a reply to:
 Message 106 by Eliyahu, posted 03-11-2014 12:07 AM Eliyahu has not yet responded

    
NoNukes
Member
Posts: 9736
From: Central NC USA
Joined: 08-13-2010
Member Rating: 3.1


Message 108 of 139 (721655)
03-11-2014 12:26 AM
Reply to: Message 106 by Eliyahu
03-11-2014 12:07 AM


Maybe osmium isn't most dense...
There are plenty mathematicians out there with a lot of time on their hands who, just like you, hate religion and the Bible codes, who could have written a rebuttal in the past eight years, and made a name for themselves as the one who debunked the Bible codes.

Except that the rebutting has already been done by a very capable mathematician. There is no longer any name to be made by rebutting Bible codes and outside of discussions like this, very little interest. It's already the case that essentially nobody capable of doing the math believes in this stuff. People believe in God or don't complete independent of this stuff.

Again, a proper discussion for those who cannot evaluate the codes first hand starts with discussion of the paper and the rebuttals. Since your guys published last, they have had the last word.

But just as we don't declare the lawyer who has the last closing statement the winner, we don't declare the person who published the last article to be the winner either. At some point all arguments, just like this one, must end. Absent an "I yield", we decide based on the presentation.

I would welcome a discussion with someone ready to defend the Bible codes on their merits according to the papers you've referenced. But I don't think that's going to happen here. Not with you anyway.

Edited by NoNukes, : No reason given.


Under a government which imprisons any unjustly, the true place for a just man is also in prison. Thoreau: Civil Disobedience (1846)

I have never met a man so ignorant that I couldn't learn something from him. Galileo Galilei

If there is no struggle, there is no progress. Those who profess to favor freedom, and deprecate agitation, are men who want crops without plowing up the ground, they want rain without thunder and lightning. Frederick Douglass


This message is a reply to:
 Message 106 by Eliyahu, posted 03-11-2014 12:07 AM Eliyahu has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 111 by Eliyahu, posted 03-11-2014 3:07 AM NoNukes has responded

    
Dr Adequate
Member
Posts: 15946
Joined: 07-20-2006
Member Rating: 3.7


(1)
Message 109 of 139 (721659)
03-11-2014 12:43 AM
Reply to: Message 106 by Eliyahu
03-11-2014 12:07 AM


Bs'd

The only problem with that statement is, that it is the rantings of a layman, who cannot bring the slightest proof for his blabber.

The fact of the matter is, that the religion hating scientific community has had now 8 years to refute these papers, and they came up with exactly nothting.

There are plenty mathematicians out there with a lot of time on their hands who, just like you, hate religion and the Bible codes, who could have written a rebuttal in the past eight years, and made a name for themselves as the one who debunked the Bible codes.

That just didn't happen, for the simple reason that there is no rebuttal, and they didn't want to make a fool of themselves.

Does this nonsense even convince you?

You think, seriously, that mathematicians would "make a name for themselves" by stooping to re-debunk an already-debunked bit of trivial crackpottery?

I have to wonder about the mental world that you live in. Can you think of one scientist or mathematician, just one, whose reputation rests on publicly humiliating a harmless crank?


This message is a reply to:
 Message 106 by Eliyahu, posted 03-11-2014 12:07 AM Eliyahu has not yet responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 110 by NoNukes, posted 03-11-2014 1:38 AM Dr Adequate has not yet responded

  
NoNukes
Member
Posts: 9736
From: Central NC USA
Joined: 08-13-2010
Member Rating: 3.1


Message 110 of 139 (721668)
03-11-2014 1:38 AM
Reply to: Message 109 by Dr Adequate
03-11-2014 12:43 AM


Can you think of one scientist or mathematician, just one, whose reputation rests on publicly humiliating a harmless crank?

Not that your entire rep rests on it, but I did cheer your post.


Under a government which imprisons any unjustly, the true place for a just man is also in prison. Thoreau: Civil Disobedience (1846)

I have never met a man so ignorant that I couldn't learn something from him. Galileo Galilei

If there is no struggle, there is no progress. Those who profess to favor freedom, and deprecate agitation, are men who want crops without plowing up the ground, they want rain without thunder and lightning. Frederick Douglass


This message is a reply to:
 Message 109 by Dr Adequate, posted 03-11-2014 12:43 AM Dr Adequate has not yet responded

    
Eliyahu
Member (Idle past 280 days)
Posts: 286
From: Judah
Joined: 07-23-2013


Message 111 of 139 (721671)
03-11-2014 3:07 AM
Reply to: Message 108 by NoNukes
03-11-2014 12:26 AM


Except that the rebutting has already been done by a very capable mathematician.

Bs'd

Except that that rebuttal is rebutted.

But just as we don't declare the lawyer who has the last closing statement the winner, we don't declare the person who published the last article to be the winner either.

You are erroneously mixing up law with science.

See here how it works in science:


"According to scientific rules, in order for critics to disprove the Torah codes, they would have to find fatal flaws in each of the six papers presenting a different approach and a different code. This happened five years ago, and to date not a single flaw was found in any of these papers. Therefore, for all intent and purposes, the Torah codes have been scientifically proven, and the debate is over."
Harold Gans, mathematician and professional code breaker

This message is a reply to:
 Message 108 by NoNukes, posted 03-11-2014 12:26 AM NoNukes has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 113 by NoNukes, posted 03-11-2014 9:20 AM Eliyahu has not yet responded
 Message 115 by Dr Adequate, posted 03-11-2014 10:15 AM Eliyahu has responded
 Message 116 by New Cat's Eye, posted 03-11-2014 10:42 AM Eliyahu has not yet responded

    
AZPaul3
Member
Posts: 3428
From: Phoenix
Joined: 11-06-2006


Message 112 of 139 (721673)
03-11-2014 8:27 AM
Reply to: Message 106 by Eliyahu
03-11-2014 12:07 AM


The only problem with that statement is, that it is the rantings of a layman, who cannot bring the slightest proof for his blabber.

You keep going on about "proof". You're a religionist. You believe in "proof" ( and, no, I'm not speaking of the mathematics type). This is a science forum. The rest of us know there is no such thing.

The fact of the matter is, that the religion hating scientific community ...

You sure have that christian martyr complex down pat. Fact is science is at best totally ambivalent to your religions and at worst ignore your religions altogether. When it comes to science folks doing science stuff your religions are given no more thought than a lion gives a flea.

Don't flatter yourself that the scientific community is out to get you. They couldn't care less about you or your fictitious codes. They have already shown that it's bunk and there is no more to consider. That a few yahoos continue to push the subject isn't even a source of amusement anymore. Your codes, like your religions, shown to be false, are ignored.

The only problem with that statement is, that it is the rantings of a layman, who cannot bring the slightest proof for his blabber.

Have you read any of the papers? They deal with the preparations of the data and the algorithms of the search. Even in the mathematical sense they are not "proofs", nor were they meant to be "proofs", of anything. They do not prove your codes. They mean nothing.

Your bible codes are a dead fable propped up by a handful of religious fanatics. They are useless. You cannot show anyone otherwise no matter how much BS you put up on this site.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 106 by Eliyahu, posted 03-11-2014 12:07 AM Eliyahu has not yet responded

  
NoNukes
Member
Posts: 9736
From: Central NC USA
Joined: 08-13-2010
Member Rating: 3.1


Message 113 of 139 (721677)
03-11-2014 9:20 AM
Reply to: Message 111 by Eliyahu
03-11-2014 3:07 AM


You are literally advertising your ignorance in your signature.

Seriously? You actually believe that the scientific method is to believe whoever last published an article?


Under a government which imprisons any unjustly, the true place for a just man is also in prison. Thoreau: Civil Disobedience (1846)

I have never met a man so ignorant that I couldn't learn something from him. Galileo Galilei

If there is no struggle, there is no progress. Those who profess to favor freedom, and deprecate agitation, are men who want crops without plowing up the ground, they want rain without thunder and lightning. Frederick Douglass


This message is a reply to:
 Message 111 by Eliyahu, posted 03-11-2014 3:07 AM Eliyahu has not yet responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 114 by Tangle, posted 03-11-2014 9:44 AM NoNukes has acknowledged this reply
 Message 117 by Theodoric, posted 03-11-2014 10:42 AM NoNukes has not yet responded

    
Tangle
Member
Posts: 4890
From: UK
Joined: 10-07-2011
Member Rating: 3.7


(1)
Message 114 of 139 (721679)
03-11-2014 9:44 AM
Reply to: Message 113 by NoNukes
03-11-2014 9:20 AM


And it's in italics and bold and green - just so you know for sure he's a fruitloop.

Life, don't talk to me about life - Marvin the Paranoid Android
"Science adjusts it's views based on what's observed.

Faith is the denial of observation so that Belief can be preserved."
- Tim Minchin, in his beat poem, Storm.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 113 by NoNukes, posted 03-11-2014 9:20 AM NoNukes has acknowledged this reply

  
Dr Adequate
Member
Posts: 15946
Joined: 07-20-2006
Member Rating: 3.7


Message 115 of 139 (721680)
03-11-2014 10:15 AM
Reply to: Message 111 by Eliyahu
03-11-2014 3:07 AM


Except that that rebuttal is rebutted.

No.

See here how it works in science:

No.

---

You need some new lies. Or the truth, that has some merits.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 111 by Eliyahu, posted 03-11-2014 3:07 AM Eliyahu has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 119 by Diomedes, posted 03-11-2014 10:47 AM Dr Adequate has not yet responded
 Message 120 by Eliyahu, posted 03-12-2014 1:54 AM Dr Adequate has responded

  
New Cat's Eye
Member
Posts: 11558
From: near St. Louis
Joined: 01-27-2005
Member Rating: 2.6


Message 116 of 139 (721682)
03-11-2014 10:42 AM
Reply to: Message 111 by Eliyahu
03-11-2014 3:07 AM


Honest question:

Are there any scientists or mathematicians who support the Bible Codes that aren't Jewish?


This message is a reply to:
 Message 111 by Eliyahu, posted 03-11-2014 3:07 AM Eliyahu has not yet responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 118 by Theodoric, posted 03-11-2014 10:45 AM New Cat's Eye has not yet responded

  
Theodoric
Member
Posts: 5765
From: Northwest, WI, USA
Joined: 08-15-2005


Message 117 of 139 (721683)
03-11-2014 10:42 AM
Reply to: Message 113 by NoNukes
03-11-2014 9:20 AM


Harold Gans obviously is clueless about a number of things.

I sure would love to see some official verification that he actually worked for the NSA as a code breaker.


Facts don't lie or have an agenda. Facts are just facts

"God did it" is not an argument. It is an excuse for intellectual laziness.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 113 by NoNukes, posted 03-11-2014 9:20 AM NoNukes has not yet responded

    
Theodoric
Member
Posts: 5765
From: Northwest, WI, USA
Joined: 08-15-2005


Message 118 of 139 (721684)
03-11-2014 10:45 AM
Reply to: Message 116 by New Cat's Eye
03-11-2014 10:42 AM


I have yet to see any scientists that support the bible code. I guess Rips may qualify as a scientist, but other than him who else is there.

Facts don't lie or have an agenda. Facts are just facts

"God did it" is not an argument. It is an excuse for intellectual laziness.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 116 by New Cat's Eye, posted 03-11-2014 10:42 AM New Cat's Eye has not yet responded

    
Diomedes
Member
Posts: 636
From: Central Florida, USA
Joined: 09-13-2013
Member Rating: 5.5


Message 119 of 139 (721685)
03-11-2014 10:47 AM
Reply to: Message 115 by Dr Adequate
03-11-2014 10:15 AM


You need some new lies. Or the truth, that has some merits.

He is not interested in actual dialog. He just wants to use this forum as a pulpit for his crackpot ideas. And the moment he is finally talked into a corner, he will quietly step away. Check out his other idiotic thread regarding how the Jews and the Torah were responsible for 'predicting' the benefits of circumcision. Except that once he was faced with proof that it was actually a practice started by the Egyptians almost a thousand years before Jews or the Torah even existed, rather than fessing up, he just merely faded away.

I'll give him credit on being a little more relentless here. Although it just makes him look like a loon.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 115 by Dr Adequate, posted 03-11-2014 10:15 AM Dr Adequate has not yet responded

  
Eliyahu
Member (Idle past 280 days)
Posts: 286
From: Judah
Joined: 07-23-2013


Message 120 of 139 (721770)
03-12-2014 1:54 AM
Reply to: Message 115 by Dr Adequate
03-11-2014 10:15 AM


Bring arguments, don't be just a naysayer
Except that that rebuttal is rebutted.

No.

Bs'd

Yes.

See here how it works in science:

No.

Yes.

Bring arguments, don't be just a naysayer.


"According to scientific rules, in order for critics to disprove the Torah codes, they would have to find fatal flaws in each of the six papers presenting a different approach and a different code. This happened five years ago, and to date not a single flaw was found in any of these papers. Therefore, for all intent and purposes, the Torah codes have been scientifically proven, and the debate is over."
Harold Gans, mathematician and professional code breaker

This message is a reply to:
 Message 115 by Dr Adequate, posted 03-11-2014 10:15 AM Dr Adequate has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 121 by Dr Adequate, posted 03-12-2014 9:25 AM Eliyahu has not yet responded
 Message 122 by Taq, posted 03-12-2014 12:03 PM Eliyahu has not yet responded

    
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