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Author Topic:   The Divine signature in the Torah
Dr Adequate
Member
Posts: 15950
Joined: 07-20-2006
Member Rating: 4.6


Message 121 of 139 (721787)
03-12-2014 9:25 AM
Reply to: Message 120 by Eliyahu
03-12-2014 1:54 AM


Re: Bring arguments, don't be just a naysayer
Bring arguments, don't be just a naysayer.

We --- and I in particular --- did bring arguments, which you ignored in favor of reciting the same old crap. Either you found the arguments unanswerable, or your program has got stuck in a loop. Either way, it is not necessary to supply any new arguments unless you can produce some new crap.

Edited by Dr Adequate, : No reason given.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 120 by Eliyahu, posted 03-12-2014 1:54 AM Eliyahu has not yet responded

  
Taq
Member
Posts: 7140
Joined: 03-06-2009
Member Rating: 3.9


(1)
Message 122 of 139 (721819)
03-12-2014 12:03 PM
Reply to: Message 120 by Eliyahu
03-12-2014 1:54 AM


Re: Bring arguments, don't be just a naysayer
Bring arguments, don't be just a naysayer.

Sure. Let's use elephants in clouds as our example. Here is one.

Now, the statistical probability that water vapor, air pressure, sunlight, etc. would all line up at the exactly the right time and exactly the right place to produce exactly that elephant is staggeringly improbable. We are talking 1 in trillions.

So, was that elephant the product of random, natural processes or was it the product of the divine?

Edited by Taq, : No reason given.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 120 by Eliyahu, posted 03-12-2014 1:54 AM Eliyahu has not yet responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 123 by New Cat's Eye, posted 03-12-2014 12:31 PM Taq has not yet responded

  
New Cat's Eye
Member
Posts: 11701
From: near St. Louis
Joined: 01-27-2005
Member Rating: 2.4


Message 123 of 139 (721824)
03-12-2014 12:31 PM
Reply to: Message 122 by Taq
03-12-2014 12:03 PM


Re: Bring arguments, don't be just a naysayer
So, was that elephant the product of random, natural processes or was it the product of the divine?

You should know that Eli is a big enough buffoon to go the route of this being a product of the divine. He gone so far to say that nothing exists at all, and that everything is God... or something like that.

Didn't you see him explaining how every table vanishes from existence once you leave the room?


This message is a reply to:
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Replies to this message:
 Message 124 by Dr Adequate, posted 03-12-2014 1:11 PM New Cat's Eye has responded

  
Dr Adequate
Member
Posts: 15950
Joined: 07-20-2006
Member Rating: 4.6


(1)
Message 124 of 139 (721835)
03-12-2014 1:11 PM
Reply to: Message 123 by New Cat's Eye
03-12-2014 12:31 PM


Re: Bring arguments, don't be just a naysayer
Didn't you see him explaining how every table vanishes from existence once you leave the room?

I didn't, but that sounds like the sort of thing I would enjoy.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 123 by New Cat's Eye, posted 03-12-2014 12:31 PM New Cat's Eye has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 125 by New Cat's Eye, posted 03-12-2014 3:04 PM Dr Adequate has not yet responded

  
New Cat's Eye
Member
Posts: 11701
From: near St. Louis
Joined: 01-27-2005
Member Rating: 2.4


Message 125 of 139 (721850)
03-12-2014 3:04 PM
Reply to: Message 124 by Dr Adequate
03-12-2014 1:11 PM


Re: Bring arguments, don't be just a naysayer
I didn't, but that sounds like the sort of thing I would enjoy.

I'm not sure he is even worth mocking.

But here's the message: Message 185

quote:
I'll explain this a bit. A while ago I was having the shabbat dinner in the house of a dutch friend here in the Judean desert. He is married to a russian woman who happens to have a university degree in physics, she is an engineer in physics. After talking to my friend a bit in dutch, I explained to her in Hebrew that I just told my friend that the very solid table from which we were eating, that if we would leave the room, close the door, and then nobody would observe the table, that that table then would go out of existence.

About this her only comment was: "That is correct."



This message is a reply to:
 Message 124 by Dr Adequate, posted 03-12-2014 1:11 PM Dr Adequate has not yet responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 126 by Diomedes, posted 03-12-2014 3:54 PM New Cat's Eye has responded

  
Diomedes
Member
Posts: 661
From: Central Florida, USA
Joined: 09-13-2013
Member Rating: 4.2


Message 126 of 139 (721853)
03-12-2014 3:54 PM
Reply to: Message 125 by New Cat's Eye
03-12-2014 3:04 PM


Re: Bring arguments, don't be just a naysayer
About this her only comment was: "That is correct."

Was her physics degree achieved via mail order? Or maybe she got it at the same school Kent Hovind went to.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 125 by New Cat's Eye, posted 03-12-2014 3:04 PM New Cat's Eye has responded

Replies to this message:
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New Cat's Eye
Member
Posts: 11701
From: near St. Louis
Joined: 01-27-2005
Member Rating: 2.4


(1)
Message 127 of 139 (721854)
03-12-2014 4:03 PM
Reply to: Message 126 by Diomedes
03-12-2014 3:54 PM


Re: Bring arguments, don't be just a naysayer
About this her only comment was: "That is correct."

Was her physics degree achieved via mail order? Or maybe she got it at the same school Kent Hovind went to.

I liked Percy's response:

quote:
That's what she said, but what she was thinking was, "If I tell him he's right, maybe he'll shut up."

--Percy



This message is a reply to:
 Message 126 by Diomedes, posted 03-12-2014 3:54 PM Diomedes has not yet responded

  
porter999
Junior Member (Idle past 844 days)
Posts: 1
From: new york
Joined: 03-01-2015


Message 128 of 139 (751202)
03-01-2015 5:50 AM


on the truth of it by reasoning our only tool
we accept that faith is at the heart of religious belief and if faith weakens or fails then we will question the foundations of that faith
I would invite you to open this link and simply examine those exposed foundations
http://openlettertomychristianfriends.blogs.../...iends.html
Replies to this message:
 Message 129 by New Cat's Eye, posted 03-02-2015 9:52 AM porter999 has not yet responded

  
New Cat's Eye
Member
Posts: 11701
From: near St. Louis
Joined: 01-27-2005
Member Rating: 2.4


Message 129 of 139 (751303)
03-02-2015 9:52 AM
Reply to: Message 128 by porter999
03-01-2015 5:50 AM


Re: on the truth of it by reasoning our only tool
We usually don't just drop bare links around here, its against the rules and it smells like spam.

You'd get more reception if you described what was in the link in your own words here and then supplied the link as a reference.

If anyone lurking wondered what was in the link: Its the account of a creationist turning into an atheists by realizing all the things that they believe about the Bible was wrong. They achieved this by stopping simply believing and actually looking at what the evidence really says. Its addressed to other creationists as a way out of the darkness and into the truth.

It was a decent read, but it was a lot of the same old stuff that we've all seen over the years. Nothing really new in there.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 128 by porter999, posted 03-01-2015 5:50 AM porter999 has not yet responded

  
mikechell
Inactive Member


Message 130 of 139 (759074)
06-08-2015 3:59 PM


New to the site ....
Just in a way of introducing myself ... this topic caught my eye. My problem with any written word conveying the "truth" of a God, is that it is written by man.
Yes, you can argue that it was relayed through "divine intervention," recorded in texts understandable to our eyes. But in the end, some person wrote those words, and there is never a way to prove any of it is actually more than a good story.

evidence over faith ... observation over theory

Replies to this message:
 Message 131 by New Cat's Eye, posted 06-09-2015 12:19 PM mikechell has responded

  
New Cat's Eye
Member
Posts: 11701
From: near St. Louis
Joined: 01-27-2005
Member Rating: 2.4


Message 131 of 139 (759162)
06-09-2015 12:19 PM
Reply to: Message 130 by mikechell
06-08-2015 3:59 PM


Re: New to the site ....
My problem with any written word conveying the "truth" of a God, is that it is written by man.
Yes, you can argue that it was relayed through "divine intervention," recorded in texts understandable to our eyes. But in the end, some person wrote those words, and there is never a way to prove any of it is actually more than a good story.

Oh, I dunno. If there were prophecies that were actually fulfilled, and were also particularly specific, then that would suggest that there was more going on than just a good story.

Like, if an ancient text predicted that a user named mikechell would post a reply here with the subtitle "New to the site ...." and it would be on 06-08-2015 at 2:59 pm, then wouldn't that prove that it was more than just a good story?


This message is a reply to:
 Message 130 by mikechell, posted 06-08-2015 3:59 PM mikechell has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 132 by ringo, posted 06-09-2015 12:49 PM New Cat's Eye has responded
 Message 134 by mikechell, posted 06-09-2015 5:28 PM New Cat's Eye has not yet responded

  
ringo
Member
Posts: 13628
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005
Member Rating: 2.4


Message 132 of 139 (759167)
06-09-2015 12:49 PM
Reply to: Message 131 by New Cat's Eye
06-09-2015 12:19 PM


Re: New to the site ....
Cat's Eye writes:

Like, if an ancient text predicted that a user named mikechell would post a reply here with the subtitle "New to the site ...." and it would be on 06-08-2015 at 2:59 pm, then wouldn't that prove that it was more than just a good story?


What If I had made that prediction in 2010? How would you know I didn't re-register as mikechell to fulfill my own prophecy?
This message is a reply to:
 Message 131 by New Cat's Eye, posted 06-09-2015 12:19 PM New Cat's Eye has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 133 by New Cat's Eye, posted 06-09-2015 2:14 PM ringo has acknowledged this reply

  
New Cat's Eye
Member
Posts: 11701
From: near St. Louis
Joined: 01-27-2005
Member Rating: 2.4


Message 133 of 139 (759175)
06-09-2015 2:14 PM
Reply to: Message 132 by ringo
06-09-2015 12:49 PM


Re: New to the site ....
Cat's Eye writes:

Like, if an ancient text predicted that a user named mikechell would post a reply here with the subtitle "New to the site ...." and it would be on 06-08-2015 at 2:59 pm, then wouldn't that prove that it was more than just a good story?


What If I had made that prediction in 2010? How would you know I didn't re-register as mikechell to fulfill my own prophecy?

I wouldn't*.

It also doesn't work when the prophesy is too generic.

*Admin might be able to pull IP addresses and see if your posting from the same location or not


This message is a reply to:
 Message 132 by ringo, posted 06-09-2015 12:49 PM ringo has acknowledged this reply

  
mikechell
Inactive Member


Message 134 of 139 (759196)
06-09-2015 5:28 PM
Reply to: Message 131 by New Cat's Eye
06-09-2015 12:19 PM


Re: New to the site ....
... an ancient text predicted that a user named mikechell would post a reply here with the subtitle "New to the site ...." and it would be on 06-08-2015 at 2:59 pm ...

Wait !!!! Is that in the Bible ??? My screenname is in the ... oohhh you were using an example. I see.
And has ANY prophecy THAT specific ever been fulfilled?


evidence over faith ... observation over theory

This message is a reply to:
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Replies to this message:
 Message 135 by AZPaul3, posted 06-09-2015 5:55 PM mikechell has not yet responded

  
AZPaul3
Member
Posts: 3428
From: Phoenix
Joined: 11-06-2006


Message 135 of 139 (759197)
06-09-2015 5:55 PM
Reply to: Message 134 by mikechell
06-09-2015 5:28 PM


Re: New to the site ....
In the bible I don't think any prophesy that specific has ever been made.

Now if you want to talk about the fundamentalist crazies with their "the world will end next Tuesday at 3:28 pm," they all fail all the time.

Edited by AZPaul3, : No reason given.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 134 by mikechell, posted 06-09-2015 5:28 PM mikechell has not yet responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 136 by MrHambre, posted 06-10-2015 4:06 PM AZPaul3 has acknowledged this reply

  
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