Understanding through Discussion


Welcome! You are not logged in. [ Login ]
EvC Forum active members: 120 (8781 total)
Current session began: 
Page Loaded: 08-20-2017 8:39 PM
365 online now:
JonF (1 member, 364 visitors)
Chatting now:  Chat room empty
Newest Member: evilsorcerer1
Post Volume:
Total: 816,579 Year: 21,185/21,208 Month: 1,618/2,326 Week: 73/881 Day: 73/119 Hour: 2/4

Announcements: Reporting debate problems OR discussing moderation actions/inactions


Thread  Details

Email This Thread
Newer Topic | Older Topic
  
Prev1
...
78
9
1011
...
14Next
Author Topic:   Cosmos with Neil DeGrass Tyson
RAZD
Member
Posts: 18861
From: the other end of the sidewalk
Joined: 03-14-2004
Member Rating: 3.6


Message 121 of 206 (724165)
04-14-2014 6:51 AM
Reply to: Message 120 by Omnivorous
04-11-2014 6:31 PM


the crazies are out, and fumbling at the mouth
I haven't watched the latest episode yet, but saw this on Facebook:

http://topekasnews.com/...l-degrasse-tysons-cosmos-cancelled

quote:
Oklahoma Protesters Threaten to Secdee From Union if Neil DeGrasse Tysons Cosmos is not Cancelled

Concerned Oklahomas gather to protest the airing of Cosmos, citing the shows agenda is clearly anti-Christian and biased against creationist values. Citizens have threatened to vote to secdee [sic] from the United States during the 2014 gubernatorial and ballot issue election if Cosmos is not formally removed from all Oklahoma based television networks.


The first protests againstCosmosin the community took place some two weeks ago, after a local paper claimed an airing ofCosmosin a school caused several children to experience demonic possession. Parents cite one kid became completely enamored with the show during a terrifyingly supernatural event linked with Neil DeGrasse Tysons narrative explaining the God of the Gaps theory.

Several weeks ago,citizens accused Tysonof using hisCosmosprogram to forward other agendas, not limited to a homogay agenda, wizardry/haroldry, astrology and other vehemently anti-Christian teachings.

Concerned parents have accused Neil DeGrasse Tyson of Ra worship and iconography, going as far as saying the titular narrator may be involved in a Wiccan Sun occult.

Delores Simmons, whose child was involved in the prior airing ofCosmosthat precipitated the anti-science scare in Oklahoma, claims petitions are already going about to elect pro-Creation candidates for upcoming elections.

If we allow this Tyson to keep publicly airing his beliefs, God just may strike us down with a cosmic meteor this summer. That would be ironic justice if you ask me, so we should just take this show off now before that happens.

Other citizens in Oklahoma agree. The latest Rasmussen polls on the subject show that over 64% people in Oklahoma feelCosmosis dangerous and carries a strong anti-theist and Creation message.


I wish them sucdess in altering reality ...

Where do they get this drivel?

Edited by RAZD, : Also see http://topekasnews.com/author/haywoodbynum/


we are limited in our ability to understand
by our ability to understand
Rebel American Zen Deist
... to learn ... to think ... to live ... to laugh ...
to share.


Join the effort to solve medical problems, AIDS/HIV, Cancer and more with Team EvC! (click)

This message is a reply to:
 Message 120 by Omnivorous, posted 04-11-2014 6:31 PM Omnivorous has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 122 by Pressie, posted 04-14-2014 7:08 AM RAZD has acknowledged this reply
 Message 123 by NoNukes, posted 04-14-2014 9:00 AM RAZD has responded
 Message 125 by Taq, posted 04-14-2014 4:04 PM RAZD has acknowledged this reply
 Message 126 by Omnivorous, posted 04-14-2014 6:43 PM RAZD has acknowledged this reply

  
Pressie
Member
Posts: 1714
From: Pretoria, SA
Joined: 06-18-2010
Member Rating: 3.2


(1)
Message 122 of 206 (724167)
04-14-2014 7:08 AM
Reply to: Message 121 by RAZD
04-14-2014 6:51 AM


Re: the crazies are out, and fumbling at the mouth
Scenes like this tell me that the US really stuffs itself as time progresses in the twenty first century. It shows that maybe it is more realistic for my country to be aligned with China? The super power of the future. It seems as if the US might be left behind as a quaint relic of the past.

Edited by Pressie, : No reason given.

Edited by Pressie, : No reason given.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 121 by RAZD, posted 04-14-2014 6:51 AM RAZD has acknowledged this reply

    
NoNukes
Inactive Member


(1)
Message 123 of 206 (724175)
04-14-2014 9:00 AM
Reply to: Message 121 by RAZD
04-14-2014 6:51 AM


Re: the crazies are out, and fumbling at the mouth
Parents cite one kid became completely enamored with the show during a terrifyingly supernatural event linked with Neil DeGrasse Tysons narrative explaining the God of the Gaps theory.

There is likely quite a bit of truth in the above statement. I'll bet the kid does like the show. Now how many people would find that to be a tragedy?

Several weeks ago, citizens accused Tyson of using his Cosmos program to forward other agendas, not limited to a homogay agenda, wizardry/haroldry, astrology and other vehemently anti-Christian teachings.

Really? Astrology? Witchcraft? What show are these fools watching? What's gay about the show?

Nothing else can get secession talk started the way a black man does without even trying. Is someone watching Fort Sumter?

ABE:

I think we've missed a joke. This is likely satire.

Edited by NoNukes, : No reason given.


Under a government which imprisons any unjustly, the true place for a just man is also in prison. Thoreau: Civil Disobedience (1846)

I have never met a man so ignorant that I couldn't learn something from him. Galileo Galilei

If there is no struggle, there is no progress. Those who profess to favor freedom, and deprecate agitation, are men who want crops without plowing up the ground, they want rain without thunder and lightning. Frederick Douglass


This message is a reply to:
 Message 121 by RAZD, posted 04-14-2014 6:51 AM RAZD has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 124 by RAZD, posted 04-14-2014 9:22 AM NoNukes has not yet responded

  
RAZD
Member
Posts: 18861
From: the other end of the sidewalk
Joined: 03-14-2004
Member Rating: 3.6


Message 124 of 206 (724180)
04-14-2014 9:22 AM
Reply to: Message 123 by NoNukes
04-14-2014 9:00 AM


Re: the crazies are out, and fumbling at the mouth
I think we've missed a joke. This is likely satire.

Well done.

You should see some of the other stuff they have ...


we are limited in our ability to understand
by our ability to understand
Rebel American Zen Deist
... to learn ... to think ... to live ... to laugh ...
to share.


Join the effort to solve medical problems, AIDS/HIV, Cancer and more with Team EvC! (click)

This message is a reply to:
 Message 123 by NoNukes, posted 04-14-2014 9:00 AM NoNukes has not yet responded

  
Taq
Member
Posts: 7034
Joined: 03-06-2009
Member Rating: 3.8


(2)
Message 125 of 206 (724210)
04-14-2014 4:04 PM
Reply to: Message 121 by RAZD
04-14-2014 6:51 AM


Re: the crazies are out, and fumbling at the mouth
With declining numbers in their congregations, I think many christians are starting to realize a simple fact. Requiring people to abandon basic observations and reason in order to be a christian is a losing battle. You can't put the toothpaste back in the tube . . . You can't unring a bell . . . pick your saw. The science is out, and it is way too late to save creationism.
This message is a reply to:
 Message 121 by RAZD, posted 04-14-2014 6:51 AM RAZD has acknowledged this reply

  
Omnivorous
Member (Idle past 465 days)
Posts: 3808
From: Adirondackia
Joined: 07-21-2005


(4)
Message 126 of 206 (724217)
04-14-2014 6:43 PM
Reply to: Message 121 by RAZD
04-14-2014 6:51 AM


Re: the crazies are out, and fumbling at the mouth
RAZD writes:

wizardry/haroldry

Harold, are you messin' with those witches again? You get your young ass home right now!

--Maude


"If you can keep your head while those around you are losing theirs, you can collect a lot of heads."

This message is a reply to:
 Message 121 by RAZD, posted 04-14-2014 6:51 AM RAZD has acknowledged this reply

    
ProtoTypical
Member
Posts: 1744
From: Ontario Canada
Joined: 08-04-2010


Message 127 of 206 (724442)
04-17-2014 8:29 AM


Inner Fish
I caught a bit of Your Inner Fish last night. They were talking about the size of the mammalian brain. I thought that it was peculiar that they would say that the fact that mammals were processing so much information caused their brains to grow.

Is that right? If I do lots of calculus will my children have bigger brains?


Replies to this message:
 Message 128 by Omnivorous, posted 04-17-2014 9:23 AM ProtoTypical has responded
 Message 129 by NoNukes, posted 04-17-2014 9:27 AM ProtoTypical has responded
 Message 135 by onifre, posted 04-19-2014 9:26 AM ProtoTypical has not yet responded
 Message 138 by RAZD, posted 04-25-2014 5:58 PM ProtoTypical has acknowledged this reply

  
Omnivorous
Member (Idle past 465 days)
Posts: 3808
From: Adirondackia
Joined: 07-21-2005


Message 128 of 206 (724449)
04-17-2014 9:23 AM
Reply to: Message 127 by ProtoTypical
04-17-2014 8:29 AM


Re: Inner Fish
I haven't seen the second installment yet...

But even very good scientists slip into teleological shorthand explanations; for example, making it sound as though a need for a bigger brain caused it to evolve, rather than more carefully explaining that an environment which conferred survival advantages on a larger, more efficient information-processing brain created selection pressures which favored mammals with that trait.

ProtoTypical writes:

Is that right? If I do lots of calculus will my children have bigger brains?

Bigger than what?


"If you can keep your head while those around you are losing theirs, you can collect a lot of heads."

This message is a reply to:
 Message 127 by ProtoTypical, posted 04-17-2014 8:29 AM ProtoTypical has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 130 by ProtoTypical, posted 04-18-2014 6:29 AM Omnivorous has responded

    
NoNukes
Inactive Member


Message 129 of 206 (724451)
04-17-2014 9:27 AM
Reply to: Message 127 by ProtoTypical
04-17-2014 8:29 AM


Re: Inner Fish
Is that right? If I do lots of calculus will my children have bigger brains?

Of course the Lamarkian explanation is going to be wrong. More likely that if you are included to be doing calculus, you've got the big brain gene. But if you try to force it, you just get a head ache and some kids who struggle with Algebra.

There has to be some kind of selection criteria for big heads. RAZD will tell you that it is predominately sexual selection, but no woman in her right mind would want to deliver big headed babies. .

I think it is a mixture of sexual selection and the fact that math skills are valuable life skills.

Edited by NoNukes, : No reason given.


Under a government which imprisons any unjustly, the true place for a just man is also in prison. Thoreau: Civil Disobedience (1846)

I have never met a man so ignorant that I couldn't learn something from him. Galileo Galilei

If there is no struggle, there is no progress. Those who profess to favor freedom, and deprecate agitation, are men who want crops without plowing up the ground, they want rain without thunder and lightning. Frederick Douglass


This message is a reply to:
 Message 127 by ProtoTypical, posted 04-17-2014 8:29 AM ProtoTypical has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 131 by ProtoTypical, posted 04-18-2014 6:36 AM NoNukes has acknowledged this reply
 Message 132 by RAZD, posted 04-18-2014 8:45 AM NoNukes has responded

  
ProtoTypical
Member
Posts: 1744
From: Ontario Canada
Joined: 08-04-2010


Message 130 of 206 (724564)
04-18-2014 6:29 AM
Reply to: Message 128 by Omnivorous
04-17-2014 9:23 AM


Re: Inner Fish
But even very good scientists slip into teleological shorthand explanations;

I suppose in passing conversation but I wouldn't expect it to make it past the editors. It seems a pretty fundamental difference in the description of a process.

I wonder as well what would cause the mutation for a slightly larger brain to keep showing up again and again. In fact wouldn't an increase in brain size require simultaneous mutations in many genes and given that the increases would be small it would mean that the same combination of mutations happened many times. It seems likely that there would be some driver that was causing the sustained incremental increases.

Bigger than what?

Just bigger than my lizard brain.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 128 by Omnivorous, posted 04-17-2014 9:23 AM Omnivorous has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 134 by Omnivorous, posted 04-18-2014 7:06 PM ProtoTypical has acknowledged this reply

  
ProtoTypical
Member
Posts: 1744
From: Ontario Canada
Joined: 08-04-2010


Message 131 of 206 (724566)
04-18-2014 6:36 AM
Reply to: Message 129 by NoNukes
04-17-2014 9:27 AM


Re: Inner Fish
I think it is a mixture of sexual selection and the fact that math skills are valuable life skills.

I can see the sexual selection for intelligence as opposed to head size.

Have our brains gotten any larger in the last 200k yrs and is brain size proportional to intelligence?


This message is a reply to:
 Message 129 by NoNukes, posted 04-17-2014 9:27 AM NoNukes has acknowledged this reply

Replies to this message:
 Message 136 by 1.61803, posted 04-23-2014 2:47 PM ProtoTypical has acknowledged this reply
 Message 137 by RAZD, posted 04-25-2014 5:36 PM ProtoTypical has acknowledged this reply

  
RAZD
Member
Posts: 18861
From: the other end of the sidewalk
Joined: 03-14-2004
Member Rating: 3.6


Message 132 of 206 (724573)
04-18-2014 8:45 AM
Reply to: Message 129 by NoNukes
04-17-2014 9:27 AM


Re: Inner Fish / Inner Reptile
There has to be some kind of selection criteria for big heads. ...

They were surprised by the size of the brain relative to the size of the animal and compared to other reptiles of that time. Cute animations btw.

... RAZD will tell you that it is predominately sexual selection, ...

Yes, for humans, not necessary for other organisms.

In humans it was likely sexual selection for creativity that led to larger brains (compared to other apes) in a Fisherian feedback process until childbearing became problematic. Evidence of such feedback systems is that they progress to an extreme degree that further development endangers life. Like a peacock's tail.

... but no woman in her right mind would want to deliver big headed babies.

So the selection is obviously not for head size but for some other factor, and head size has come along for the ride as a result.

In the case of those early mammals, it would be due to more complex behavior that enabled better survival in a dangerous environment. This would also be self-reinforcing where brain size would increase as a result (go along for the ride).

Curiously I am finding this series much more interesting than Cosmos, perhaps because my interest is more in evolution and biology than in physics and astronomy.

Edited by RAZD, : clrty


we are limited in our ability to understand
by our ability to understand
Rebel American Zen Deist
... to learn ... to think ... to live ... to laugh ...
to share.


Join the effort to solve medical problems, AIDS/HIV, Cancer and more with Team EvC! (click)

This message is a reply to:
 Message 129 by NoNukes, posted 04-17-2014 9:27 AM NoNukes has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 133 by NoNukes, posted 04-18-2014 9:31 AM RAZD has acknowledged this reply
 Message 183 by NoNukes, posted 05-01-2014 10:54 AM RAZD has acknowledged this reply
 Message 194 by NoNukes, posted 05-05-2014 2:05 AM RAZD has acknowledged this reply

  
NoNukes
Inactive Member


Message 133 of 206 (724580)
04-18-2014 9:31 AM
Reply to: Message 132 by RAZD
04-18-2014 8:45 AM


Re: Inner Fish / Inner Reptile
So the selection is obviously not for head size but for some other factor, and head size has come along for the ride as a result.

Obviously. My comment was not meant to be taken seriously.


Under a government which imprisons any unjustly, the true place for a just man is also in prison. Thoreau: Civil Disobedience (1846)

I have never met a man so ignorant that I couldn't learn something from him. Galileo Galilei

If there is no struggle, there is no progress. Those who profess to favor freedom, and deprecate agitation, are men who want crops without plowing up the ground, they want rain without thunder and lightning. Frederick Douglass


This message is a reply to:
 Message 132 by RAZD, posted 04-18-2014 8:45 AM RAZD has acknowledged this reply

  
Omnivorous
Member (Idle past 465 days)
Posts: 3808
From: Adirondackia
Joined: 07-21-2005


Message 134 of 206 (724632)
04-18-2014 7:06 PM
Reply to: Message 130 by ProtoTypical
04-18-2014 6:29 AM


Re: Inner Fish
Prototypical writes:

It seems likely that there would be some driver that was causing the sustained incremental increases.

Other people.


"If you can keep your head while those around you are losing theirs, you can collect a lot of heads."

This message is a reply to:
 Message 130 by ProtoTypical, posted 04-18-2014 6:29 AM ProtoTypical has acknowledged this reply

    
onifre
Member (Idle past 449 days)
Posts: 4854
From: Dark Side of the Moon
Joined: 02-20-2008


Message 135 of 206 (724662)
04-19-2014 9:26 AM
Reply to: Message 127 by ProtoTypical
04-17-2014 8:29 AM


Re: Inner Fish
I thought that it was peculiar that they would say that the fact that mammals were processing so much information caused their brains to grow.

Is that right? If I do lots of calculus will my children have bigger brains?

I think our brains have already evolved to perform calculus. Maybe if they did higher levels of computing or processing they might? I don't know.

- Oni


This message is a reply to:
 Message 127 by ProtoTypical, posted 04-17-2014 8:29 AM ProtoTypical has not yet responded

    
Prev1
...
78
9
1011
...
14Next
Newer Topic | Older Topic
Jump to:


Copyright 2001-2015 by EvC Forum, All Rights Reserved

™ Version 4.0 Beta
Innovative software from Qwixotic © 2017