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Author Topic:   Could asteroids lead to the extinction of YECism ?
Faith
Member
Posts: 25895
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 106 of 137 (723091)
03-26-2014 3:36 PM
Reply to: Message 105 by Taq
03-26-2014 3:33 PM


Re: Old Earth views of some Christian leaders
It isn't evidence at all, as I will keep asserting against your assertion, it's nothing but speculating, hypothesizing and interpreting.
This message is a reply to:
 Message 105 by Taq, posted 03-26-2014 3:33 PM Taq has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 108 by Taq, posted 03-26-2014 3:52 PM Faith has responded

    
Faith
Member
Posts: 25895
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001
Member Rating: 1.1


(1)
Message 107 of 137 (723095)
03-26-2014 3:47 PM
Reply to: Message 104 by kbertsche
03-26-2014 3:22 PM


Re: Old Earth views of some Christian leaders
Right, Gap Theory is an obviously wrong interpretation of Genesis 1, so is Day-Age theory, so is Theistic evolution. Just as geocentrism is not in the Bible, neither are these theories.
This message is a reply to:
 Message 104 by kbertsche, posted 03-26-2014 3:22 PM kbertsche has not yet responded

    
Taq
Member
Posts: 7034
Joined: 03-06-2009
Member Rating: 3.8


(1)
Message 108 of 137 (723097)
03-26-2014 3:52 PM
Reply to: Message 106 by Faith
03-26-2014 3:36 PM


Re: Old Earth views of some Christian leaders
It isn't evidence at all, as I will keep asserting against your assertion, it's nothing but speculating, hypothesizing and interpreting.

All you are saying is that no evidence will ever change your mind. This is a tacit admission that the evidence is against you.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 106 by Faith, posted 03-26-2014 3:36 PM Faith has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 109 by Faith, posted 03-26-2014 4:07 PM Taq has responded

  
Faith
Member
Posts: 25895
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 109 of 137 (723100)
03-26-2014 4:07 PM
Reply to: Message 108 by Taq
03-26-2014 3:52 PM


Re: Old Earth views of some Christian leaders
Actually the evidence is just as much on the side of creationist interpretations as evolutionist and old earth interpretations. Since the evidence IS open to interpretation and really doesn't support your conclusions as you think it does. Evidence such as the fossils for instance, the strata for instance, junk DNA even, mutations too. All a matter of how they are interpreted.
This message is a reply to:
 Message 108 by Taq, posted 03-26-2014 3:52 PM Taq has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 110 by Taq, posted 03-26-2014 4:29 PM Faith has not yet responded
 Message 111 by hooah212002, posted 03-26-2014 7:02 PM Faith has responded

    
Taq
Member
Posts: 7034
Joined: 03-06-2009
Member Rating: 3.8


(1)
Message 110 of 137 (723106)
03-26-2014 4:29 PM
Reply to: Message 109 by Faith
03-26-2014 4:07 PM


Re: Old Earth views of some Christian leaders
Actually the evidence is just as much on the side of creationist interpretations as evolutionist and old earth interpretations.

In order for this to be true, the creationist interpretations would need to be falsifiable, and they aren't. When any evidence will support your claims, then you don't have any evidence. As you have shown time and again, no evidence will ever change your mind. Your creationist position is a dogmatic one, not a falsifiable one. When you hold to a dogmatic position, you have no right to claim that the evidence is on your side.

Even more, how do you determine which interpretation is right? They can't all be right, can they? Just pointing out that there are mutliple interpretations does not tell us which one is right.

Since the evidence IS open to interpretation and really doesn't support your conclusions as you think it does. Evidence such as the fossils for instance, the strata for instance, junk DNA even, mutations too. All a matter of how they are interpreted.

What type of evidence, as it relates to asteroids, would we have to find in order to change your mind?

Edited by Taq, : No reason given.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 109 by Faith, posted 03-26-2014 4:07 PM Faith has not yet responded

  
hooah212002
Member (Idle past 404 days)
Posts: 3180
Joined: 08-12-2009


Message 111 of 137 (723122)
03-26-2014 7:02 PM
Reply to: Message 109 by Faith
03-26-2014 4:07 PM


Re: Old Earth views of some Christian leaders
The part you are missing is that interpretations can be, and often are, wrong. I can iterpret my wife to not be mad at me all I want, but that doesn't mean I don't have to sleep on the couch. I can interpret the moon to be made of cheese and it won't have any effect on me, allowing me to go on believing that it is, but that doesn't mean that the moon is actually made of cheese. I even have some moon cheese in my closet (at least that's what the guy that sold it to me told me it was).

If we continue this train of thought, there is no god since millions of atheists interpret the evidence to there not being a god. Do you still want to use this rationale?

Just because you choose to view data through a certain lense doesn't make it correct. Data and reality aren't protected like your faith is. Just because you are just as right in your interpretation of the bible as Catholic Scientist and Devilsadvocate are doesn't mean you can do the same with actual facts, data and reality.

Edited by hooah212002, : No reason given.


Organic life is nothing but a genetic mutation, an accident. Your lives are measured in years and decades. You wither and die. We are eternal, the pinnacle of evolution and existence. Before us, you are nothing. Your extinction is inevitable. We are the end of everything.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 109 by Faith, posted 03-26-2014 4:07 PM Faith has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 112 by Faith, posted 03-27-2014 3:56 AM hooah212002 has not yet responded

    
Faith
Member
Posts: 25895
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 112 of 137 (723133)
03-27-2014 3:56 AM
Reply to: Message 111 by hooah212002
03-26-2014 7:02 PM


Re: Old Earth views of some Christian leaders
The part you are missing is that interpretations can be, and often are, wrong.

Not missing this at all. Of course some interpretations are wrong, that's the whole point. It's the establishment interpretations I judge to be wrong.'

If we continue this train of thought, there is no god since millions of atheists interpret the evidence to there not being a god. Do you still want to use this rationale?

But I haven't used any rationale that says all interpretations are equal. Far from it. I've simply pointed out that the establishment interpretations of the unknowable past are simply that, interpretations and not proven fact though they are claimed to be. And I believe that at least some of the opposing creationist interpretations are the correct ones, but I can't prove those either. We can only argue the case back and forth.

And the atheists are looking at the wrong evidence.

Just because you choose to view data through a certain lense doesn't make it correct.

Never said it did.

Data and reality aren't protected like your faith is. Just because you are just as right in your interpretation of the bible as Catholic Scientist and Devilsadvocate are doesn't mean you can do the same with actual facts, data and reality.

Sorry, this is rather garbled logic. No idea what you mean by "protected" and there's no such thing as contradictory views being "just as right" as each other.

Facts data and reality are just as subject to interpretation as the Bible is.

Edited by Faith, : No reason given.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 111 by hooah212002, posted 03-26-2014 7:02 PM hooah212002 has not yet responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 113 by Tangle, posted 03-27-2014 4:11 AM Faith has responded
 Message 122 by Taq, posted 03-27-2014 11:13 AM Faith has not yet responded

    
Tangle
Member
Posts: 4983
From: UK
Joined: 10-07-2011
Member Rating: 3.0


(3)
Message 113 of 137 (723135)
03-27-2014 4:11 AM
Reply to: Message 112 by Faith
03-27-2014 3:56 AM


Re: Old Earth views of some Christian leaders
Faith writes:

Not missing this at all. Of course some interpretations are wrong, that's the whole point. It's the establishment interpretations I judge to be wrong.'

You think pretty much everything is wrong though don't you?

Geology, palaeontology, astronomy, biology, genetics, physics and pretty much any natural science. You think all non-religions are wrong as are all religions that are not Christian. You even think that the vast majority of Christians are wrong and even most of those Christians that call themselves creationists and are 'saved' are wrong.

In fact, when you get down to it, it's pretty much only what Faith prefers to believe that is right isn't it? I reckon you're in a set of 1. (Or as close as makes no difference.)


Life, don't talk to me about life - Marvin the Paranoid Android
"Science adjusts it's views based on what's observed.

Faith is the denial of observation so that Belief can be preserved."
- Tim Minchin, in his beat poem, Storm.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 112 by Faith, posted 03-27-2014 3:56 AM Faith has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 114 by Faith, posted 03-27-2014 4:35 AM Tangle has responded

  
Faith
Member
Posts: 25895
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 114 of 137 (723136)
03-27-2014 4:35 AM
Reply to: Message 113 by Tangle
03-27-2014 4:11 AM


Re: Old Earth views of some Christian leaders
You know what would be really really nice of you, and fair and honest and so on, is if you'd include in your periodic restatement of this accusation an acknowledgement of my periodic restatement of my answer to you in which I say how wrong you are? Wouldn't that save a lot of stress and wasted energy?
This message is a reply to:
 Message 113 by Tangle, posted 03-27-2014 4:11 AM Tangle has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 115 by Tangle, posted 03-27-2014 7:22 AM Faith has responded

    
Tangle
Member
Posts: 4983
From: UK
Joined: 10-07-2011
Member Rating: 3.0


(1)
Message 115 of 137 (723145)
03-27-2014 7:22 AM
Reply to: Message 114 by Faith
03-27-2014 4:35 AM


Re: Old Earth views of some Christian leaders
Your delusion is so entrenched that you don't even know what you're denying - even when it's spelled out to you. But there's no getting away from it, you deny virtually all of science and all but a tiny slice of one religion - you keep telling us this.

Life, don't talk to me about life - Marvin the Paranoid Android
"Science adjusts it's views based on what's observed.

Faith is the denial of observation so that Belief can be preserved."
- Tim Minchin, in his beat poem, Storm.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 114 by Faith, posted 03-27-2014 4:35 AM Faith has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 116 by Faith, posted 03-27-2014 7:49 AM Tangle has not yet responded

  
Faith
Member
Posts: 25895
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 116 of 137 (723147)
03-27-2014 7:49 AM
Reply to: Message 115 by Tangle
03-27-2014 7:22 AM


Re: Old Earth views of some Christian leaders
Christians do not reject science, REAL science, FAR FROM IT, only the fantasy sciences of the unobservable past.
This message is a reply to:
 Message 115 by Tangle, posted 03-27-2014 7:22 AM Tangle has not yet responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 117 by herebedragons, posted 03-27-2014 8:16 AM Faith has responded
 Message 125 by ringo, posted 03-27-2014 11:42 AM Faith has not yet responded

    
herebedragons
Member
Posts: 1373
From: Michigan
Joined: 11-22-2009
Member Rating: 2.5


(1)
Message 117 of 137 (723148)
03-27-2014 8:16 AM
Reply to: Message 116 by Faith
03-27-2014 7:49 AM


Re: Old Earth views of some Christian leaders
only the fantasy sciences of the unobservable past.

You really should stop using this phrase, it is logically inconsistent. You believe that the earth is only 6,000 years old and that man has existed on this earth for all but 5 days of that time. So, there really is NO unobservable past according to your views. So those that see evidence for an old earth are simply misinterpreting "observable" events, according to your position. Everything that has happened in the past, happened while humans were here to observe it ... according to your views.

I don't see how you can object to the "unobserved past" since, according to your views, there is none.

Are you conceding that there IS an unobservable past that none of us can be sure about??

HBD


Whoever calls me ignorant shares my own opinion. Sorrowfully and tacitly I recognize my ignorance, when I consider how much I lack of what my mind in its craving for knowledge is sighing for... I console myself with the consideration that this belongs to our common nature. - Francesco Petrarca

"Nothing is easier than to persuade people who want to be persuaded and already believe." - another Petrarca gem.

Ignorance is a most formidable opponent rivaled only by arrogance; but when the two join forces, one is all but invincible.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 116 by Faith, posted 03-27-2014 7:49 AM Faith has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 118 by Faith, posted 03-27-2014 8:24 AM herebedragons has responded

  
Faith
Member
Posts: 25895
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 118 of 137 (723150)
03-27-2014 8:24 AM
Reply to: Message 117 by herebedragons
03-27-2014 8:16 AM


Re: Old Earth views of some Christian leaders
I would have thought it clear enough that the unobservable past is what the evolutionists and OE people think they are dealing with. They make their assertons about what happened in a past they know nothing about. They certainly deny what we think we know through the Bible, deny it with every theory they have about dates of civilizations and events and the works. The past IS unobservable to them and yet they feel free to declare what happened during it.
This message is a reply to:
 Message 117 by herebedragons, posted 03-27-2014 8:16 AM herebedragons has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 119 by NoNukes, posted 03-27-2014 8:28 AM Faith has responded
 Message 121 by herebedragons, posted 03-27-2014 8:57 AM Faith has not yet responded

    
NoNukes
Member
Posts: 9815
From: Central NC USA
Joined: 08-13-2010
Member Rating: 3.3


(2)
Message 119 of 137 (723151)
03-27-2014 8:28 AM
Reply to: Message 118 by Faith
03-27-2014 8:24 AM


Re: Old Earth views of some Christian leaders
I would have thought it clear enough that the unobservable past is what the evolutionists and OE people think they are dealing with.

The past IS unobservable to them and yet they feel free to declare what happened during it.

That is exactly what you do all of the time, and in the past you have acknowledged doing so. Despite knowing diddly squat about thermodynamics, chemistry, physics, or anything else relevant to geology, you swear that you can date geological features and rocks regardless of whether you have even seen or touched them. Then you call that nonsense process of making up crap - "interpretation".

No scientist has any more hubris than that.

Edited by NoNukes, : No reason given.

Edited by NoNukes, : No reason given.


Under a government which imprisons any unjustly, the true place for a just man is also in prison. Thoreau: Civil Disobedience (1846)

I have never met a man so ignorant that I couldn't learn something from him. Galileo Galilei

If there is no struggle, there is no progress. Those who profess to favor freedom, and deprecate agitation, are men who want crops without plowing up the ground, they want rain without thunder and lightning. Frederick Douglass


This message is a reply to:
 Message 118 by Faith, posted 03-27-2014 8:24 AM Faith has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 120 by Faith, posted 03-27-2014 8:35 AM NoNukes has responded

    
Faith
Member
Posts: 25895
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 120 of 137 (723152)
03-27-2014 8:35 AM
Reply to: Message 119 by NoNukes
03-27-2014 8:28 AM


Re: Old Earth views of some Christian leaders
But as HBD said, I don't have an unobservable past to deal with, I have an observed past that tells me when some things happened so I can place the Flood in history for instance while secular science ignores all the evidence for it and goes on making up stuff that has NO verification whatever. But I'm still otherwise in the same position of having to interpret things that weren't reported on.
This message is a reply to:
 Message 119 by NoNukes, posted 03-27-2014 8:28 AM NoNukes has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 123 by Taq, posted 03-27-2014 11:15 AM Faith has not yet responded
 Message 126 by NoNukes, posted 03-27-2014 12:33 PM Faith has not yet responded

    
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