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Author Topic:   Homosexuality and Evo, Creo, and ID
Faith
Inactive Member


Message 1261 of 1309 (748345)
01-24-2015 10:37 PM
Reply to: Message 1259 by AZPaul3
01-24-2015 10:12 PM


Re: Bet?
Your scenario is even more drastic than mine. But of course there is no sin or judgment in your scenario --- well, there IS but you don't recognize it as such.

OK, a pride bet then but I'm no longer sure what we're betting on.

Edited by Faith, : No reason given.

Edited by Faith, : No reason given.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 1259 by AZPaul3, posted 01-24-2015 10:12 PM AZPaul3 has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 1263 by AZPaul3, posted 01-24-2015 10:57 PM Faith has responded

jar
Member
Posts: 29430
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004
Member Rating: 2.3


Message 1262 of 1309 (748346)
01-24-2015 10:43 PM
Reply to: Message 1260 by Faith
01-24-2015 10:33 PM


can you provide any support for your assertions that religious freedoms were infringe
Yet you have so far refused to present any evidence that any of their First Amendment Rights were infringed.

How does a cake validate or enable a marriage?

Have they been told they cannot hold their personal beliefs no matter how silly and bigoted those beliefs might be?

It really is that simple Faith.


Anyone so limited that they can only spell a word one way is severely handicapped!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1260 by Faith, posted 01-24-2015 10:33 PM Faith has not yet responded

AZPaul3
Member
Posts: 3428
From: Phoenix
Joined: 11-06-2006


Message 1263 of 1309 (748348)
01-24-2015 10:57 PM
Reply to: Message 1261 by Faith
01-24-2015 10:37 PM


Re: Bet?
OK, a pride bet then but I'm no longer sure what we're betting on.

Your god will die in my scenario before I die in his.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 1261 by Faith, posted 01-24-2015 10:37 PM Faith has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 1264 by Faith, posted 01-25-2015 10:48 AM AZPaul3 has acknowledged this reply

Faith
Inactive Member


Message 1264 of 1309 (748380)
01-25-2015 10:48 AM
Reply to: Message 1263 by AZPaul3
01-24-2015 10:57 PM


Re: Bet?
What I'm expecting is a breakdown of many things at once just as you are, the economy for a big one, but primarily the complete destruction of Constitutional American government, which I see foreshadowed in many ways because Cultural Marxism's Political Correctness already rules over the Constitution, but relevant to this discussion particularly in your willingness, and Ringo's, to take away the First Amendment protection of religion from Christians. That you and he could so adamantly declare the righteousness of such an action would be depressing if I hadn't had years to get used to it by now. And that the government (the courts) has already acted on such a violation of religious freedom by fining business owners for acting on their religious rights by refusing to cater to gay marriage, isn't even really noticed here, is it?

But that's only what's going on here, on this thread.

I also anticipate food shortages by the way, but I haven't been stockpiling although I know many who have been. I'll rely on God to provide in answer to prayer.

Edited by Faith, : No reason given.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 1263 by AZPaul3, posted 01-24-2015 10:57 PM AZPaul3 has acknowledged this reply

Replies to this message:
 Message 1268 by Larni, posted 01-26-2015 7:01 AM Faith has responded

ringo
Member
Posts: 13718
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005
Member Rating: 1.7


(5)
Message 1265 of 1309 (748396)
01-25-2015 1:11 PM
Reply to: Message 1241 by Faith
01-24-2015 12:29 PM


Faith writes:

Of course, "bigots" according to you are those who refuse to give up the tenets of their religion, as long as it's the orthodox Biblical Christian religion.


You should stop trying to read my mind. You're really bad at it.

Faith writes:

But you wouldn't call a Muslim a bigot for refusing to give up FGM would you?


A Muslim would be a bigot if he wanted to force his standards on YOU, like you want to force your standards on homosexuals.

Faith writes:

... YOU're the bigot with the irrational standards, who gives yourself the right to tell us what we should believe....


I don`t tell you what to believe. In fact, I defend your right to believe any stupid thing you want to believe. What I oppose is trying to impose your beliefs on other people.
This message is a reply to:
 Message 1241 by Faith, posted 01-24-2015 12:29 PM Faith has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 1266 by Faith, posted 01-25-2015 4:36 PM ringo has responded

Faith
Inactive Member


Message 1266 of 1309 (748412)
01-25-2015 4:36 PM
Reply to: Message 1265 by ringo
01-25-2015 1:11 PM


I don`t tell you what to believe. In fact, I defend your right to believe any ****** thing you want to believe. What I oppose is trying to impose your beliefs on other people.

That's what you call depriving people of their business for acting on their religious beliefs? Of course, just as I've been saying, no more First Amendment protection of religion, just revisionist perversity.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 1265 by ringo, posted 01-25-2015 1:11 PM ringo has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 1267 by dwise1, posted 01-26-2015 2:58 AM Faith has responded
 Message 1269 by Larni, posted 01-26-2015 7:03 AM Faith has responded
 Message 1270 by ringo, posted 01-26-2015 11:07 AM Faith has responded

dwise1
Member
Posts: 2970
Joined: 05-02-2006
Member Rating: 3.5


(1)
Message 1267 of 1309 (748442)
01-26-2015 2:58 AM
Reply to: Message 1266 by Faith
01-25-2015 4:36 PM


That's what you call depriving people of their business for acting on their religious beliefs?

Which is to deprive other people of their own "business for acting on their religious belief"?

So you define your own religious "business" on your own "right" to oppress the religious business of others? And you dare to denounce that denial of others' religious rights as being in violation of your own?

... First Amendment protection of religion ...

For your own protection, as for others'.
This message is a reply to:
 Message 1266 by Faith, posted 01-25-2015 4:36 PM Faith has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 1272 by Faith, posted 01-26-2015 1:09 PM dwise1 has not yet responded

  
Larni
Member
Posts: 3951
From: Liverpool
Joined: 09-16-2005


(1)
Message 1268 of 1309 (748445)
01-26-2015 7:01 AM
Reply to: Message 1264 by Faith
01-25-2015 10:48 AM


Re: Bet?
Hi Faith.

Is it just America going down the pan that is an indication of the End Times or are other countries required to also go down the pan?

Over here in Jolly Old England where I live in Plymouth, things seem to be on the up and up. Crime is down and wages are going up.

Is it just America that is the barometer for the nearness of the End Times?

All the best.


The above ontological example models the zero premise to BB theory. It does so by applying the relative uniformity assumption that the alleged zero event eventually ontologically progressed from the compressed alleged sub-microscopic chaos to bloom/expand into all of the present observable order, more than it models the Biblical record evidence for the existence of Jehovah, the maximal Biblical god designer.
-Attributed to Buzsaw Message 53

The explain to them any scientific investigation that explains the existence of things qualifies as science and as an explanation
-Attributed to Dawn Bertot Message 286

Does a query (thats a question Stile) that uses this physical reality, to look for an answer to its existence and properties become theoretical, considering its deductive conclusions are based against objective verifiable realities.
-Attributed to Dawn Bertot Message 134


This message is a reply to:
 Message 1264 by Faith, posted 01-25-2015 10:48 AM Faith has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 1276 by Faith, posted 01-26-2015 3:28 PM Larni has not yet responded

  
Larni
Member
Posts: 3951
From: Liverpool
Joined: 09-16-2005


(2)
Message 1269 of 1309 (748446)
01-26-2015 7:03 AM
Reply to: Message 1266 by Faith
01-25-2015 4:36 PM


I think the point that Ringo is trying to make is that every Christian is free to sit and seethe in bitter resentment about the equality those no good gays have as long as they don't break the law.

Render unto Caesar, etc.

All the best


The above ontological example models the zero premise to BB theory. It does so by applying the relative uniformity assumption that the alleged zero event eventually ontologically progressed from the compressed alleged sub-microscopic chaos to bloom/expand into all of the present observable order, more than it models the Biblical record evidence for the existence of Jehovah, the maximal Biblical god designer.
-Attributed to Buzsaw Message 53

The explain to them any scientific investigation that explains the existence of things qualifies as science and as an explanation
-Attributed to Dawn Bertot Message 286

Does a query (thats a question Stile) that uses this physical reality, to look for an answer to its existence and properties become theoretical, considering its deductive conclusions are based against objective verifiable realities.
-Attributed to Dawn Bertot Message 134


This message is a reply to:
 Message 1266 by Faith, posted 01-25-2015 4:36 PM Faith has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 1278 by Faith, posted 01-26-2015 3:33 PM Larni has responded

  
ringo
Member
Posts: 13718
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005
Member Rating: 1.7


(5)
Message 1270 of 1309 (748469)
01-26-2015 11:07 AM
Reply to: Message 1266 by Faith
01-25-2015 4:36 PM


Faith writes:

That's what you call depriving people of their business for acting on their religious beliefs?


I haven't said anything about "depriving people of their business". What I've said is that people can deprive THEMSELVES of their own business by refusing to comply with community standards. If they keep a filthy kitchen, or refuse to serve black people or homosexuals, they are violating community standards and are not entitled to a business license. Their religious beliefs do not entitle them to dictate community standards.
This message is a reply to:
 Message 1266 by Faith, posted 01-25-2015 4:36 PM Faith has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 1274 by Faith, posted 01-26-2015 1:21 PM ringo has responded

Dr Adequate
Member
Posts: 15960
Joined: 07-20-2006
Member Rating: 5.6


(1)
Message 1271 of 1309 (748490)
01-26-2015 12:53 PM
Reply to: Message 1237 by jar
01-23-2015 9:48 PM


Re: support?
How does a wedding cake support a marriage? Are marriages without a cake still valid?

OK, but suppose someone refused to supply timber to a KKK cross-burning ceremony.

I think there is still a problem.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 1237 by jar, posted 01-23-2015 9:48 PM jar has not yet responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 1273 by Faith, posted 01-26-2015 1:13 PM Dr Adequate has not yet responded
 Message 1275 by Tangle, posted 01-26-2015 1:49 PM Dr Adequate has responded

Faith
Inactive Member


Message 1272 of 1309 (748493)
01-26-2015 1:09 PM
Reply to: Message 1267 by dwise1
01-26-2015 2:58 AM


That's what you call depriving people of their business for acting on their religious beliefs?

Which is to deprive other people of their own "business for acting on their religious belief"?

The forces that twist the truth from good to evil and evil to good are just too too clever. Aren't you all? There's hardly any point in pointing out the obvious fact that a Christian business owner is not depriving anybody of anything by refusing to make a wedding cake for a certain kind of function, because you've decided that's what it is and that's that. As a Christian I would accept it if a Jewish bakery didn't want to make a cake celebrating the Risen Christ for Easter; I can get such things elsewhere and enjoy the Jewish offerings for what they are. Likewise gays can get their wedding cakes elsewhere, they can have all the baked goods they want otherwise, and there is no deprivation involved. Except in the minds of those determined to do away with Christianity.

The First Amendment was intended to protect my right to my religious beliefs, period. There is no clause that says "except when running a Christian business, then you have to stop having your Christian beliefs."

So you define your own religious "business" on your own "right" to oppress the religious business of others?

See above for the reasonable answer to such sophistry.

And you dare to denounce that denial of others' religious rights as being in violation of your own?

There is nothing that says my religious rights have to be abrogated in order to allow others, and you are engaging in a really scurrilous form of sophistry here.

Edited by Faith, : No reason given.

Edited by Faith, : No reason given.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 1267 by dwise1, posted 01-26-2015 2:58 AM dwise1 has not yet responded

Faith
Inactive Member


Message 1273 of 1309 (748494)
01-26-2015 1:13 PM
Reply to: Message 1271 by Dr Adequate
01-26-2015 12:53 PM


Re: support?
I tried to give you a Cheer but the button wouldn't do it for some reason. Imagine that, me giving YOU a cheer.

abe: Oh I see it did come through after all.

Edited by Faith, : No reason given.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 1271 by Dr Adequate, posted 01-26-2015 12:53 PM Dr Adequate has not yet responded

Faith
Inactive Member


Message 1274 of 1309 (748495)
01-26-2015 1:21 PM
Reply to: Message 1270 by ringo
01-26-2015 11:07 AM


I haven't said anything about "depriving people of their business". What I've said is that people can deprive THEMSELVES of their own business by refusing to comply with community standards. If they keep a filthy kitchen, or refuse to serve black people or homosexuals, they are violating community standards and are not entitled to a business license. Their religious beliefs do not entitle them to dictate community standards.

I think Political Correctness must attack certain parts of the brain, producing nonsense thought and galloping sophistry. Keeping a clean kitchen and serving blacks and gays is not a violation of my religious beliefs, only providing a service for a gay wedding is, and that is not a violation of anything except the corrupt standards of Political Correctness, but your position IS a violation of my First Amendment right to act on my religious beliefs by refusing a particular service that violates them.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 1270 by ringo, posted 01-26-2015 11:07 AM ringo has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 1288 by ringo, posted 01-27-2015 11:02 AM Faith has not yet responded

Tangle
Member
Posts: 5098
From: UK
Joined: 10-07-2011
Member Rating: 2.1


Message 1275 of 1309 (748507)
01-26-2015 1:49 PM
Reply to: Message 1271 by Dr Adequate
01-26-2015 12:53 PM


Re: support?
Dr A. writes:


OK, but suppose someone refused to supply timber to a KKK cross-burning ceremony.
I think there is still a problem.

I think you'll find that that particular problem will be resolved. (You'll spot the glow in the distance on your way home.)

But it's a pretty fine balance, you complained when I pointed out the UK law that might provide a defence.

Edited by Tangle, : No reason given.


Je suis Charlie. Je suis Ahmed. Je suis Juif.

Life, don't talk to me about life - Marvin the Paranoid Android

"Science adjusts it's views based on what's observed.
Faith is the denial of observation so that Belief can be preserved."
- Tim Minchin, in his beat poem, Storm.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 1271 by Dr Adequate, posted 01-26-2015 12:53 PM Dr Adequate has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 1277 by Dr Adequate, posted 01-26-2015 3:30 PM Tangle has not yet responded

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