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Author Topic:   Creation Museum a House of Cards Sitting on Old Old Earth Rocks
Dr Adequate
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Posts: 15950
Joined: 07-20-2006
Member Rating: 4.6


(2)
Message 16 of 61 (723304)
03-28-2014 7:36 PM
Reply to: Message 14 by Percy
03-28-2014 3:45 PM


I guess I'm asking us to consider who among us has no irrational stance on anything. There but for the grace of God go us, except that God granted us no such grace and we are in all likelihood treading our own irrational path on some topic or another. We err if we deem creationists to be poor misbegotten souls of an inferior caste. They are us and we are them.

No I'm not. It's all very well going all dewy-eyed and Homo sum, humani nihil a me alienum puto about them, but there are differences. For example, I wouldn't presume to teach others about a scientific subject without first having looked at a relevant textbook. I have spent what must amount to several working days this year alone looking up quotations and references to verify them. (Not just about evolution, I have other interests, but still.) I find out what my intellectual opponents think by reading what they have written, and criticize them accordingly. And so forth. There are subjects on which I may still be irrational --- who knows? --- but at least I am conscientious. This does, I think, make them inferior to me, because they have failed, not through want of reason, but through want of effort. Any man may be irrational now and then, but no-one is obliged to be habitually and systematically lazy.


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Percy
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Posts: 15913
From: New Hampshire
Joined: 12-23-2000
Member Rating: 4.1


(3)
Message 17 of 61 (723325)
03-29-2014 7:37 AM
Reply to: Message 15 by NoNukes
03-28-2014 7:16 PM


NoNukes writes:

Being compassionate and understanding is one thing. Excusing pigheadedness is fine. But elevating ignorance and illogic to the level of being virtues is something else.

What I was saying was along somewhat different lines. Taq said we should "take away their membership cards in the human race," referring to those unconvinced by the chalk evidence and the cliffs of Dover, but who among us has no beliefs untouchable by evidence? It could even be argued that our irrational side is a significant part of what makes us human. When it comes to turning in membership cards, if anyone should be asked to resign from the human race it should be those who are unfailingly coldly rational.

Ignorance and irrationality should be fought at every practical opportunity, and especially when it's us, but we can't let our alliance here with the side that has all the evidence and knowledge lead us to a conceit that we're somehow better or more human than creationists. We might be more knowledgeable and rational about evolution and about science in general, we may even be more knowledgeable and rational in general, but nothing of significance separates the humanity of evolutionists and creationists.

--Percy


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RAZD
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From: the other end of the sidewalk
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Message 18 of 61 (735420)
08-14-2014 7:36 AM
Reply to: Message 1 by RAZD
03-27-2014 10:09 AM


Another creation "museum" ...
Another one trick dog and pony show

http://www.boiseweekly.com/boise/religious-vision/Content

In a space about the size of a studio apartment, the Northwest Science Museum Vision Center accommodates a life-size plaster cast mastodon skull that rests in the middle of the room. But the 25-foot-by-25-foot room feels uncluttered and organized, with tidy displays, a bookshelf and a model for what the NSM hopes to become: a 300,000-450,000-square-foot museum with creationism and young-earth theories in the spotlight. And a full-scale replica of Noah's Ark docked out front. And an A-10 Warthog parked on the roof.

Can anyone explain why there would be an A-10 Warthog on the roof?

While the center purports to give visitors equal access to biblical and natural science explanations, its mission, according to its strategic plan, is to "distribute the abundance of scientific evidence in support of the Biblical account of creation and young earth history."

And ... we can assume ... ignore any evidence that calls such belief into question, such as the evidence that the earth is much older than any YEC model ...

According to Lutz, the most compelling pieces in the museum are Ica stones from the Aeronautical Museum of Lima, Peru: smooth andesite stones etched with images of humans and dinosaurs interacting. ...

And so we have a "museum" dedicated to perpetuating a KNOWN fraud\hoax ... no different than Carl Baugh and the Creation "Museum" Paluxy "human" footprints hoax.

Lutz is not a scientist. The product of a "nominally Christian household," he said he had an early interest in science, but for much of his adult life he worked as a farmer. In 2001, after a work injury, he trained as a medical technician, went on religious missions to Ukraine, Siberia and Peru, and accompanied archaeologists on fossil digs. ...

But the lack of any formal training doesn't stop him from thinking he can put together a museum and comment on the science involved ... after all he is interested in ... (wait for it) ...

Among the center's other activities is promoting itself through community engagement. A kids camp, "Dare to Dig for Truth" ...
"Equip your kids with the TRUTH and enable them to stand up against the growing influences that contradict TRUTH," stated the camp's brochure.

Somehow I don't think any scientists, or even scientifically literate people will be beating a path to this new mecca of self delusion.

Enjoy


we are limited in our ability to understand
by our ability to understand
RebelAmerican☆Zen☯Deist
... to learn ... to think ... to live ... to laugh ...
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This message is a reply to:
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Replies to this message:
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herebedragons
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Posts: 1413
From: Michigan
Joined: 11-22-2009
Member Rating: 3.0


Message 19 of 61 (735421)
08-14-2014 8:09 AM
Reply to: Message 18 by RAZD
08-14-2014 7:36 AM


Re: Another creation "museum" ...
Yup, another "not for profit" purveyor of truth.

I am curious as to what the caption says for the mastodon skull. If you have dinosaurs and humans co-existing, then certainly mastodons lived much more recently. Maybe it says "Perhaps your great, great, great grandfather used one of these for transportation."

You missed some good quotes that I found quite funny.

quote:
Curator Stan Lutz said that's what distinguishes his from other creationism museums.

"That's something other creationists don't do: They don't put science up," he said.


Oh that's funny. I bet Ham and Hovind will be upset to find out their museums don't "put up science."

Another one about the Ica Stones:

quote:
The stones continue to find supporters among those who claim their existence reinforces the "ancient alien" theory that extraterrestrials guided human development, those who believe the stones were crafted by residents of the lost continent of Atlantis, and young-earth proponents.

All about equally valid "theories."

Can anyone explain why there would be an A-10 Warthog on the roof?

My guess is there are a few reasons. 1) He simply had one available for some reason, probably from a donor, 2) it would attract kids and 3) it will be used as a symbol of what "real science" can accomplish.

HBD


Whoever calls me ignorant shares my own opinion. Sorrowfully and tacitly I recognize my ignorance, when I consider how much I lack of what my mind in its craving for knowledge is sighing for... I console myself with the consideration that this belongs to our common nature. - Francesco Petrarca

"Nothing is easier than to persuade people who want to be persuaded and already believe." - another Petrarca gem.

Ignorance is a most formidable opponent rivaled only by arrogance; but when the two join forces, one is all but invincible.


This message is a reply to:
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Replies to this message:
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edge
Member
Posts: 3964
From: Colorado, USA
Joined: 01-09-2002
Member Rating: 3.7


Message 20 of 61 (735424)
08-14-2014 11:19 AM
Reply to: Message 19 by herebedragons
08-14-2014 8:09 AM


Re: Another creation "museum" ...
My guess is there are a few reasons. 1) He simply had one available for some reason, probably from a donor, 2) it would attract kids and 3) it will be used as a symbol of what "real science" can accomplish.

You mean not everyone has an A-10 in their garage?
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ringo
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Posts: 13636
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005
Member Rating: 2.3


Message 21 of 61 (735431)
08-14-2014 12:11 PM
Reply to: Message 18 by RAZD
08-14-2014 7:36 AM


Re: Another creation "museum" ...
RAZD writes:

Can anyone explain why there would be an A-10 Warthog on the roof?


It's an experiment: It will demonstrate that a storm can't build one.
This message is a reply to:
 Message 18 by RAZD, posted 08-14-2014 7:36 AM RAZD has responded

Replies to this message:
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Dr Adequate
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Posts: 15950
Joined: 07-20-2006
Member Rating: 4.6


Message 22 of 61 (735442)
08-15-2014 9:35 AM
Reply to: Message 18 by RAZD
08-14-2014 7:36 AM


Re: Another creation "museum" ...
According to Lutz, the most compelling pieces in the museum are Ica stones from the Aeronautical Museum of Lima, Peru: smooth andesite stones etched with images of humans and dinosaurs interacting. ...

Technically, he's right --- the Ica stones are the most compelling evidence for creationism.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 18 by RAZD, posted 08-14-2014 7:36 AM RAZD has acknowledged this reply

  
jar
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Posts: 29363
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004
Member Rating: 3.2


(1)
Message 23 of 61 (735443)
08-15-2014 10:01 AM


That's where the money is.
There is GOLD in them thar Biblical Christian and Creationist pockets.

Anyone so limited that they can only spell a word one way is severely handicapped!

  
Diomedes
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Posts: 661
From: Central Florida, USA
Joined: 09-13-2013
Member Rating: 4.2


Message 24 of 61 (735445)
08-15-2014 11:04 AM
Reply to: Message 21 by ringo
08-14-2014 12:11 PM


Re: Another creation "museum" ...
RAZD writes:

Can anyone explain why there would be an A-10 Warthog on the roof?


It's an experiment: It will demonstrate that a storm can't build one.

I thought it was because the people most likely to be Creationist are also the same people that think they need to be armed to the teeth so they can overthrow the government when it becomes corrupt.

Them A-10s got a big-ass gun:


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edge
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Posts: 3964
From: Colorado, USA
Joined: 01-09-2002
Member Rating: 3.7


Message 25 of 61 (735452)
08-15-2014 2:25 PM
Reply to: Message 24 by Diomedes
08-15-2014 11:04 AM


Re: Another creation "museum" ...
I thought it was because the people most likely to be Creationist are also the same people that think they need to be armed to the teeth so they can overthrow the government when it becomes corrupt.

Maybe it's like one of those signs you put in your yard that says, "This property protected by ..."
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Omnivorous
Member (Idle past 497 days)
Posts: 3808
From: Adirondackia
Joined: 07-21-2005


Message 26 of 61 (735454)
08-15-2014 3:37 PM
Reply to: Message 21 by ringo
08-14-2014 12:11 PM


Re: Another creation "museum" ...
ringo writes:

RAZD writes:

Can anyone explain why there would be an A-10 Warthog on the roof?

It's an experiment: It will demonstrate that a storm can't build one.

Muscular Jesus.


"If you can keep your head while those around you are losing theirs, you can collect a lot of heads."

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Replies to this message:
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New Cat's Eye
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Posts: 11706
From: near St. Louis
Joined: 01-27-2005
Member Rating: 2.3


Message 27 of 61 (735455)
08-15-2014 4:02 PM
Reply to: Message 26 by Omnivorous
08-15-2014 3:37 PM


Re: Another creation "museum" ...
Muscular Jesus.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 26 by Omnivorous, posted 08-15-2014 3:37 PM Omnivorous has responded

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Omnivorous
Member (Idle past 497 days)
Posts: 3808
From: Adirondackia
Joined: 07-21-2005


(1)
Message 28 of 61 (735460)
08-15-2014 10:13 PM
Reply to: Message 27 by New Cat's Eye
08-15-2014 4:02 PM


Re: Another creation "museum" ...
Eww...

"If you can keep your head while those around you are losing theirs, you can collect a lot of heads."

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RAZD
Member
Posts: 18965
From: the other end of the sidewalk
Joined: 03-14-2004
Member Rating: 3.7


(1)
Message 29 of 61 (735464)
08-16-2014 7:00 AM
Reply to: Message 21 by ringo
08-14-2014 12:11 PM


Re: Another creation "museum" ...
RAZD writes:

Can anyone explain why there would be an A-10 Warthog on the roof?


It's an experiment: It will demonstrate that a storm can't build one.

I wondered if it weren't preparation for the 'end of times' great battle ...



we are limited in our ability to understand
by our ability to understand
RebelAmerican☆Zen☯Deist
... to learn ... to think ... to live ... to laugh ...
to share.


Join the effort to solve medical problems, AIDS/HIV, Cancer and more with Team EvC! (click)

This message is a reply to:
 Message 21 by ringo, posted 08-14-2014 12:11 PM ringo has acknowledged this reply

  
RAZD
Member
Posts: 18965
From: the other end of the sidewalk
Joined: 03-14-2004
Member Rating: 3.7


Message 30 of 61 (735465)
08-16-2014 7:39 AM
Reply to: Message 19 by herebedragons
08-14-2014 8:09 AM


Re: Another creation "museum" ...
Yup, another "not for profit" purveyor of truth.

Kind of makes me wonder how many hole-in-the-wall pocket museums there are ... I know of another along the route I normally take into Maine ...

http://www.examiner.com/article/creation-museum-maine

A quick google gave me

http://creationministriesoftheozarks.com/...o-tour-of-museum

(what a hoot pile of whooey)

http://www.boneyardcreationmuseum.org/

Which looks like it has based exhibits on many well known PRATTS ... and is that large "skeleton" t-rex based on a cardboard cut-out kit?

http://creationstudies.org/museum.html

And what these "museums" seem to be most concerned with - desperate - is showing that SCIENCE supports the bible ... but that they know the TRUTH that is somehow ignored in real museums.

A quick look exposes them as loaded with ludicrous misinformation and wishful thinking.

But I'm sure the gullible are easily enthralled ...

... and remain ignorant of the evidence for an old earth, or the absence

Enjoy.


we are limited in our ability to understand
by our ability to understand
RebelAmerican☆Zen☯Deist
... to learn ... to think ... to live ... to laugh ...
to share.


Join the effort to solve medical problems, AIDS/HIV, Cancer and more with Team EvC! (click)

This message is a reply to:
 Message 19 by herebedragons, posted 08-14-2014 8:09 AM herebedragons has responded

Replies to this message:
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