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Author Topic:   Continuation of Flood Discussion
Coyote
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Posts: 5645
Joined: 01-12-2008
Member Rating: 2.4


Message 1261 of 1304 (733266)
07-15-2014 1:48 PM
Reply to: Message 1255 by Faith
07-15-2014 1:04 PM


Still wrong

Religious belief does not constitute scientific evidence, nor does it convey scientific knowledge.

Belief gets in the way of learning--Robert A. Heinlein

How can I possibly put a new idea into your heads, if I do not first remove your delusions?--Robert A. Heinlein

It's not what we don't know that hurts, it's what we know that ain't so--Will Rogers

If I am entitled to something, someone else is obliged to pay--Jerry Pournelle

If a religion's teachings are true, then it should have nothing to fear from science...--dwise1

"Multiculturalism" does not include the American culture. That is what it is against.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 1255 by Faith, posted 07-15-2014 1:04 PM Faith has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 1263 by Faith, posted 07-15-2014 1:58 PM Coyote has responded

  
Faith
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Posts: 24395
Joined: 10-06-2001
Member Rating: 1.0


Message 1262 of 1304 (733267)
07-15-2014 1:52 PM
Reply to: Message 1259 by JonF
07-15-2014 1:11 PM


Re: A Column is a VERTICAL Structure
But that is not at all clear just from the picture when the flat layers were laid down. There's something odd about that picture. Where is it and what is it?
This message is a reply to:
 Message 1259 by JonF, posted 07-15-2014 1:11 PM JonF has not yet responded

    
Faith
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Posts: 24395
Joined: 10-06-2001
Member Rating: 1.0


Message 1263 of 1304 (733268)
07-15-2014 1:58 PM
Reply to: Message 1261 by Coyote
07-15-2014 1:48 PM


Re: Still wrong -- yep, you in this case
Do blieve that's a COAL SEAM , not igneous rock.

Edited by Faith, : No reason given.

Edited by Faith, : No reason given.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 1261 by Coyote, posted 07-15-2014 1:48 PM Coyote has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 1264 by NoNukes, posted 07-15-2014 3:05 PM Faith has responded
 Message 1272 by Coyote, posted 07-15-2014 3:56 PM Faith has responded

    
NoNukes
Member
Posts: 9429
From: Central NC USA
Joined: 08-13-2010
Member Rating: 2.8


Message 1264 of 1304 (733274)
07-15-2014 3:05 PM
Reply to: Message 1263 by Faith
07-15-2014 1:58 PM


Re: Still wrong -- yep, you in this case
Do blieve that's a COAL SEAM , not igneous rock.

This question is a bit off the direct topic, but surely you are not limiting the geological column to igneous rock? Sedimentary rock includes rock made up of chemical substances (salts and other minerals), organic substances, and of course broken up bits of other rocks. I don't see any reason why combinations of sedimentary, igneous, and metamorphic rocks might not be present.

But back to the topic. You believe you have a definition of the geological column that is at variance with the definition everyone else claims is correct. But you have yet to do the obvious thing in defense of your position, which would be to site a source using your definition. Why is that?

Edited by NoNukes, : No reason given.


Under a government which imprisons any unjustly, the true place for a just man is also in prison. Thoreau: Civil Disobedience (1846)

I have never met a man so ignorant that I couldn't learn something from him. Galileo Galilei

If there is no struggle, there is no progress. Those who profess to favor freedom, and deprecate agitation, are men who want crops without plowing up the ground, they want rain without thunder and lightning. Frederick Douglass


This message is a reply to:
 Message 1263 by Faith, posted 07-15-2014 1:58 PM Faith has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 1266 by New Cat's Eye, posted 07-15-2014 3:09 PM NoNukes has responded
 Message 1268 by Faith, posted 07-15-2014 3:21 PM NoNukes has not yet responded
 Message 1271 by Faith, posted 07-15-2014 3:43 PM NoNukes has not yet responded

    
New Cat's Eye
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Posts: 11232
From: near St. Louis
Joined: 01-27-2005
Member Rating: 1.8


Message 1265 of 1304 (733275)
07-15-2014 3:07 PM
Reply to: Message 1248 by Faith
07-15-2014 12:56 PM


Re: Legoland
No, that is not the Geologic Column. Sheesh.

I didn't say it was. I said it was a geological column, which it is.

There isn't really an actual real thing that is the geological column, because its going to be different at different places.

What people refer to as the Geological Column is just an abstraction that represents all of the layers underground.

And it can certainly contain volcanic layers, and layers that aren't completely flat.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 1248 by Faith, posted 07-15-2014 12:56 PM Faith has not yet responded

  
New Cat's Eye
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Posts: 11232
From: near St. Louis
Joined: 01-27-2005
Member Rating: 1.8


(2)
Message 1266 of 1304 (733276)
07-15-2014 3:09 PM
Reply to: Message 1264 by NoNukes
07-15-2014 3:05 PM


Re: Still wrong -- yep, you in this case
but surely you are not limiting the geological column to igneous rock?

Shit, an hour or so ago she said that the geological column is only made up of sedimentary rock, and that igneous rocks from volcanoes don't get deposited in the column.

It really is just a big old confused mess, full of nonsense and falsehoods.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 1264 by NoNukes, posted 07-15-2014 3:05 PM NoNukes has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 1267 by NoNukes, posted 07-15-2014 3:18 PM New Cat's Eye has responded

  
NoNukes
Member
Posts: 9429
From: Central NC USA
Joined: 08-13-2010
Member Rating: 2.8


Message 1267 of 1304 (733278)
07-15-2014 3:18 PM
Reply to: Message 1266 by New Cat's Eye
07-15-2014 3:09 PM


Re: Still wrong -- yep, you in this case
It really is just a big old confused mess, full of nonsense and falsehoods.

I'm trying to avoid the kind of editorializing that seems to be drawing off topic banners lately. But would it be too patronizing if I noted for Faith's benefit that coal is sedimentary rock?

Okay. I'm butting out of the geology thread again. Describing the rock cycle in the terms used in 8th grade science texts is the extent of my knowledge.

Edited by NoNukes, : No reason given.


Under a government which imprisons any unjustly, the true place for a just man is also in prison. Thoreau: Civil Disobedience (1846)

I have never met a man so ignorant that I couldn't learn something from him. Galileo Galilei

If there is no struggle, there is no progress. Those who profess to favor freedom, and deprecate agitation, are men who want crops without plowing up the ground, they want rain without thunder and lightning. Frederick Douglass


This message is a reply to:
 Message 1266 by New Cat's Eye, posted 07-15-2014 3:09 PM New Cat's Eye has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 1269 by Faith, posted 07-15-2014 3:23 PM NoNukes has responded
 Message 1274 by New Cat's Eye, posted 07-15-2014 4:03 PM NoNukes has not yet responded

    
Faith
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Posts: 24395
Joined: 10-06-2001
Member Rating: 1.0


Message 1268 of 1304 (733279)
07-15-2014 3:21 PM
Reply to: Message 1264 by NoNukes
07-15-2014 3:05 PM


Re: Still wrong -- yep, you in this case
WHAT? "...limiting the geological column to igneous rock." WHAT?

Did you mean "sedimentary rock?" That would be closer. But I never said there is no igneous rock in the Geo Column, just that it doesn't form layers like the sedimentary rock. It forms sills, it forms dikes etc.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 1264 by NoNukes, posted 07-15-2014 3:05 PM NoNukes has not yet responded

Replies to this message:
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Faith
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Posts: 24395
Joined: 10-06-2001
Member Rating: 1.0


Message 1269 of 1304 (733281)
07-15-2014 3:23 PM
Reply to: Message 1267 by NoNukes
07-15-2014 3:18 PM


Re: Still wrong -- yep, you in this case
yes COAL is a sedimentary rock. I don't know how this conversation is getting so confused but that was the point. Igneous rock IS NOT sedimentary rock, what Coyote posted WAS sedimentary rock though he thought it was igneous rock. No, it was a coal seam, which IS sedimentary rock. Yikes this IS a mess but it is certainly not my fault that it is. You just didn't read carefully enough or get the whole context.
This message is a reply to:
 Message 1267 by NoNukes, posted 07-15-2014 3:18 PM NoNukes has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 1270 by NoNukes, posted 07-15-2014 3:42 PM Faith has responded

    
NoNukes
Member
Posts: 9429
From: Central NC USA
Joined: 08-13-2010
Member Rating: 2.8


Message 1270 of 1304 (733284)
07-15-2014 3:42 PM
Reply to: Message 1269 by Faith
07-15-2014 3:23 PM


Igneous rock layers.
You just didn't read carefully enough or get the whole context.

I see your point. Using coal as an example of igneous rock would be an improper example. Which leaves the question of where you get the idea that magma cannot form layers. Would the following be an example of a layer formed by igneous rock that would meet your standards?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Layered_intrusion

quote:
A layered intrusion is a large sill-like body of igneous rock which exhibits vertical layering or differences in composition and texture. These intrusions typically are many kilometres in area covering from around 100 km2 to over 50,000 km2 and several hundred metres to over a kilometre in thickness.[1] While most are Archean to Proterozoic in age (for example, the Paleoproterozoic Bushveld complex) they may be any age such as the Cenozoic Skaergaard intrusion of east Greenland.[1] Although most are ultramafic to mafic in composition, the Ilimaussaq complex of Greenland is an alkalic intrusion.

How about this

http://www.nature.nps.gov/.../Sites/DETO/HTML/ET_Igneous.htm

quote:
Magma that cools at or near the Earthís surface cools very quickly. Therefore, the crystals donít have time to grow. The resulting rock is called an extrusive igneous rock or volcanic rock and contains crystals that are too small to see with the naked eye. This texture is called aphanitic and the most common aphanitic rock is called basalt. It forms much of the ocean floor.

Is the ocean floor a layer that you would acknowledge as part of the geological column?

It is true that the layers of the geological column are generally sedimentary layers. At least as best as I know. But the base layer is granite, which is not sedimentary. And of course, all rocks, except maybe granite, become sedimentary via erosion.

http://www.britannica.com/...n-and-its-associated-time-scale.

quote:
Most methods for determining relative geologic ages are well illustrated in sedimentary rocks. These rocks cover roughly 75 percent of the surface area of the continents, and unconsolidated sediments blanket most of the ocean floor. They provide evidence of former surface conditions and the life-forms that existed under those conditions. The sequence of a layered sedimentary series is easily defined because deposition always proceeds from the bottom to the top. This principle would seem self-evident, but its first enunciation more than 300 years ago by Nicolaus Steno represented an enormous advance in understanding. Known as the principle of superposition, it holds that in a series of sedimentary layers or superposed lava flows the oldest layer is at the bottom, and layers from there upward become progressively younger. On occasion, however, deformation may have caused the rocks of the crust to tilt, perhaps to the point of overturning them. Moreover, if erosion has blurred the record by removing substantial portions of the deformed sedimentary rock, it may not be at all clear which edge of a given layer is the original top and which is the original bottom.

Under a government which imprisons any unjustly, the true place for a just man is also in prison. Thoreau: Civil Disobedience (1846)

I have never met a man so ignorant that I couldn't learn something from him. Galileo Galilei

If there is no struggle, there is no progress. Those who profess to favor freedom, and deprecate agitation, are men who want crops without plowing up the ground, they want rain without thunder and lightning. Frederick Douglass


This message is a reply to:
 Message 1269 by Faith, posted 07-15-2014 3:23 PM Faith has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 1281 by Faith, posted 07-15-2014 5:30 PM NoNukes has responded

    
Faith
Member
Posts: 24395
Joined: 10-06-2001
Member Rating: 1.0


Message 1271 of 1304 (733285)
07-15-2014 3:43 PM
Reply to: Message 1264 by NoNukes
07-15-2014 3:05 PM


Re: Still wrong -- yep, you in this case
Sedimentary rock includes rock made up of chemical substances (salts and other minerals), organic substances, and of course broken up bits of other rocks. I don't see any reason why combinations of sedimentary, igneous, and metamorphic rocks might not be present.

Sure, and a bowl of tomato soup might have a fly in it but it's still a bowl of tomato soup.

But back to the topic. You believe you have a definition of the geological column that is at variance with the definition everyone else claims is correct. But you have yet to do the obvious thing in defense of your position, which would be to site a source using your definition. Why is that?

Not sure, good question. Maybe I just can't believe it's not obvious. But I'll see what I can find to cite for support.

Edited by Faith, : No reason given.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 1264 by NoNukes, posted 07-15-2014 3:05 PM NoNukes has not yet responded

    
Coyote
Member
Posts: 5645
Joined: 01-12-2008
Member Rating: 2.4


(1)
Message 1272 of 1304 (733287)
07-15-2014 3:56 PM
Reply to: Message 1263 by Faith
07-15-2014 1:58 PM


Re: Still wrong
https://www.flickr.com/photos/far_out_photography/6747667791

What you believe is wrong, as usual.


Religious belief does not constitute scientific evidence, nor does it convey scientific knowledge.

Belief gets in the way of learning--Robert A. Heinlein

How can I possibly put a new idea into your heads, if I do not first remove your delusions?--Robert A. Heinlein

It's not what we don't know that hurts, it's what we know that ain't so--Will Rogers

If I am entitled to something, someone else is obliged to pay--Jerry Pournelle

If a religion's teachings are true, then it should have nothing to fear from science...--dwise1

"Multiculturalism" does not include the American culture. That is what it is against.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 1263 by Faith, posted 07-15-2014 1:58 PM Faith has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 1276 by Faith, posted 07-15-2014 5:08 PM Coyote has responded

  
New Cat's Eye
Member
Posts: 11232
From: near St. Louis
Joined: 01-27-2005
Member Rating: 1.8


Message 1273 of 1304 (733288)
07-15-2014 4:01 PM
Reply to: Message 1268 by Faith
07-15-2014 3:21 PM


Re: Still wrong -- yep, you in this case
But I never said there is no igneous rock in the Geo Column, just that it doesn't form layers like the sedimentary rock.

But it can, and it does.

If lava flows over rocks on the surface and then later more sediment is deposited upon the cool and hardened lava flow, then that lava flow will form a layer in the geological column there.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 1268 by Faith, posted 07-15-2014 3:21 PM Faith has not yet responded

  
New Cat's Eye
Member
Posts: 11232
From: near St. Louis
Joined: 01-27-2005
Member Rating: 1.8


(1)
Message 1274 of 1304 (733289)
07-15-2014 4:03 PM
Reply to: Message 1267 by NoNukes
07-15-2014 3:18 PM


Re: Still wrong -- yep, you in this case
But would it be too patronizing if I noted for Faith's benefit that coal is sedimentary rock?

Sure, but that's not a coal seam... its lava flow.

Describing the rock cycle in the terms used in 8th grade science texts is the extent of my knowledge.

Especially when they're responding to the 8th grade science as if they were a 5 year old.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 1267 by NoNukes, posted 07-15-2014 3:18 PM NoNukes has not yet responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 1277 by Faith, posted 07-15-2014 5:12 PM New Cat's Eye has responded

  
Meddle
Member
Posts: 159
From: Scotland
Joined: 05-08-2006


Message 1275 of 1304 (733292)
07-15-2014 4:29 PM
Reply to: Message 1244 by Faith
07-15-2014 12:49 PM


Deccan Traps
It doesn't form strata IN THE GEOLOGIC COLUMN which is made up of sedimentary rock.

The traps referred to in this image are layers of basalt originating from a series of volcanic eruptions which gave rise to the Deccan Traps in India which cover an area of 500,000 km2 and are 2000m deep. In between the two layers of igneous basalt in the picture is a 9m deep sedimentary layer of shallow marine origin.

Edited by Malcolm, : Trying for a sensible size


This message is a reply to:
 Message 1244 by Faith, posted 07-15-2014 12:49 PM Faith has not yet responded

  
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