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Author Topic:   Continuation of Flood Discussion
Faith
Member
Posts: 25903
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 1276 of 1304 (733295)
07-15-2014 5:08 PM
Reply to: Message 1272 by Coyote
07-15-2014 3:56 PM


Re: Still wrong -- Yes you are
Audrey seems to have misidentified the coal seam as igneous rock. Look at the examples of coal I linked. That's what they look like.

Edited by Faith, : No reason given.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 1272 by Coyote, posted 07-15-2014 3:56 PM Coyote has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 1285 by Coyote, posted 07-15-2014 6:30 PM Faith has responded

    
Faith
Member
Posts: 25903
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 1277 of 1304 (733296)
07-15-2014 5:12 PM
Reply to: Message 1274 by New Cat's Eye
07-15-2014 4:03 PM


Re: Still wrong -- yep, you in this case
No Nukes took back his error, time for you to do so also.

And that is a coal seam. Look at the examples I linked.

Edited by Faith, : No reason given.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 1274 by New Cat's Eye, posted 07-15-2014 4:03 PM New Cat's Eye has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 1278 by NosyNed, posted 07-15-2014 5:21 PM Faith has responded
 Message 1279 by New Cat's Eye, posted 07-15-2014 5:29 PM Faith has not yet responded
 Message 1280 by NoNukes, posted 07-15-2014 5:29 PM Faith has not yet responded

    
NosyNed
Member
Posts: 8791
From: Canada
Joined: 04-04-2003
Member Rating: 4.1


Message 1278 of 1304 (733298)
07-15-2014 5:21 PM
Reply to: Message 1277 by Faith
07-15-2014 5:12 PM


You didn't even read the label?
Don't you think it is more likely that the person there who took the picture has it right? And it looks at least as much like lava as anything else. How can you possibly think you have it right??

ABE: and it is on Ascension Island - an island arising from the Atlantic rift. There can not be any coal there! Geez

Edited by NosyNed, : Added stuff


This message is a reply to:
 Message 1277 by Faith, posted 07-15-2014 5:12 PM Faith has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 1282 by Faith, posted 07-15-2014 5:36 PM NosyNed has not yet responded

  
New Cat's Eye
Member
Posts: 11675
From: near St. Louis
Joined: 01-27-2005
Member Rating: 2.6


Message 1279 of 1304 (733299)
07-15-2014 5:29 PM
Reply to: Message 1277 by Faith
07-15-2014 5:12 PM


Re: Still wrong -- yep, you in this case
No Nukes took back his error, time for you to do so also.

After you.

And that is a coal seam.

But its lava flow and not a coal seam.

Look at the examples I linked.

Yes, some coal seams do look like lava flow.

But that doesn't make lava flow be a coal seam.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 1277 by Faith, posted 07-15-2014 5:12 PM Faith has not yet responded

  
NoNukes
Member
Posts: 9816
From: Central NC USA
Joined: 08-13-2010
Member Rating: 3.3


Message 1280 of 1304 (733300)
07-15-2014 5:29 PM
Reply to: Message 1277 by Faith
07-15-2014 5:12 PM


Re: Still wrong -- yep, you in this case
No Nukes took back his error, time for you to do so also.
And that is a coal seam. Look at the examples I linked.

Let's be careful. My error was assuming that you were an idiot. Your point was that the picture showed coal. If that's true, then you had a legitimate argument and at least the form of your argument was correct even if there is a factual mistake.

But of course, if the picture is not coal, you simply made a mistake. That still means you are not an idiot. I made an error regardless of whether that formation is coal or cooled lava.

But don't compound that error as you are doing now. You'd better be sure who has made an error. The picture was taken on a volcanic island. It seems way more likely that you are in error.

Besides that, I've given you some other layers to deal with.

Edited by NoNukes, : No reason given.


Under a government which imprisons any unjustly, the true place for a just man is also in prison. Thoreau: Civil Disobedience (1846)

I have never met a man so ignorant that I couldn't learn something from him. Galileo Galilei

If there is no struggle, there is no progress. Those who profess to favor freedom, and deprecate agitation, are men who want crops without plowing up the ground, they want rain without thunder and lightning. Frederick Douglass


This message is a reply to:
 Message 1277 by Faith, posted 07-15-2014 5:12 PM Faith has not yet responded

    
Faith
Member
Posts: 25903
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 1281 of 1304 (733301)
07-15-2014 5:30 PM
Reply to: Message 1270 by NoNukes
07-15-2014 3:42 PM


Re: Igneous rock layers and Geo Golumn definition.
What I've been calling the Geologic Column is called at Wikipedia the
Stratigraphic Column. Clearly it is what I mean and if that is the term everybody recognizes then I'll start using it instead.

the vertical location of rock units in a particular area.

A typical stratigraphic column shows a sequence of sedimentary rocks, with the oldest rocks on the bottom and the youngest on top.

VERTICAL. SEQUENCE OF SEDIMENTARY ROCKS. VERTICAL.

The article goes on to point out that the stack may have been deformed in various ways which make it hard to identify.

There is no mention of the column being anything other than a vertical stack of sedimentary rocks.

Then you want to know if I consider igneous rocks to be a layer in the column or not, and although there are places where they appear as layers they are nevertheless still intrusives into the column, which means they weren't laid down along with the rest of the rocks but pushed up through the stack and spread out between layers, in some cases having a comparable thickness and extent and looking very much like layers. But they are younger than the other rocks because they are intrusives. They are sills, not layers even if they look like layers. The first article you linked said they are found worldwide in the form of layers but they are nevertheless rare.

On the definition of the Geologic Column you quote a Britannica article which says what I've been saying, as does the Wikipedia stub quoted above. Sedimentary, vertical, bottom to top. Layered sedimentary series.

Mentions unconsolidated sediments on ocean floor but doesn't identify them as Geologic Column, is merely demonstrating the extent of sedimentary deposits starting with 75% of the surface area of the continents.

And like the Wikipedia article it goes on to mention that the stack may be deformed and hard to identify.

So far the official definitions confine the column to the recognizable vertical stack, as I have been doing.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 1270 by NoNukes, posted 07-15-2014 3:42 PM NoNukes has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 1284 by NoNukes, posted 07-15-2014 5:57 PM Faith has responded
 Message 1293 by Percy, posted 07-15-2014 10:22 PM Faith has responded
 Message 1295 by Dr Adequate, posted 07-15-2014 10:23 PM Faith has responded

    
Faith
Member
Posts: 25903
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 1282 of 1304 (733302)
07-15-2014 5:36 PM
Reply to: Message 1278 by NosyNed
07-15-2014 5:21 PM


Re: You didn't even read the label?
It looks IDENTICAL to that coal seam I linked, I mean identical, and it doesn't look like the lava layers NoNukes linked. However, if it is CERTAIN that it's lava OK, I'll certainly accept that, but just because somebody says it's lava doesn't convince me because it looks so exactly like the coal seams I linked.
This message is a reply to:
 Message 1278 by NosyNed, posted 07-15-2014 5:21 PM NosyNed has not yet responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 1283 by NoNukes, posted 07-15-2014 5:50 PM Faith has responded

    
NoNukes
Member
Posts: 9816
From: Central NC USA
Joined: 08-13-2010
Member Rating: 3.3


Message 1283 of 1304 (733303)
07-15-2014 5:50 PM
Reply to: Message 1282 by Faith
07-15-2014 5:36 PM


Re: You didn't even read the label?
However, if it is CERTAIN that it's lava OK, I'll certainly accept that, but just because somebody says it's lava doesn't convince me because it looks so exactly like the coal seams I linked.

Given the circumstances, namely the location on Ascension Island, do you think the material in question is likely to be coal?


Under a government which imprisons any unjustly, the true place for a just man is also in prison. Thoreau: Civil Disobedience (1846)

I have never met a man so ignorant that I couldn't learn something from him. Galileo Galilei

If there is no struggle, there is no progress. Those who profess to favor freedom, and deprecate agitation, are men who want crops without plowing up the ground, they want rain without thunder and lightning. Frederick Douglass


This message is a reply to:
 Message 1282 by Faith, posted 07-15-2014 5:36 PM Faith has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 1287 by Faith, posted 07-15-2014 9:53 PM NoNukes has not yet responded

    
NoNukes
Member
Posts: 9816
From: Central NC USA
Joined: 08-13-2010
Member Rating: 3.3


Message 1284 of 1304 (733304)
07-15-2014 5:57 PM
Reply to: Message 1281 by Faith
07-15-2014 5:30 PM


That long river in Egypt...
There is no mention of the column being anything other than a vertical stack of sedimentary rocks.

Yes there is.

quote:
In areas that are more geologically complex, such as those that contain intrusive rocks, faults, and/or metamorphism, stratigraphic columns can still indicate the relative locations of these units with respect to one another.

ABE:

I want to expand on my point above. In the stratigraphic column, the presence of igneous rock is ignored because the column is telling the story of the sedimentary layers which are the ones for which we can determine geological and chronological ages. The stratigraphic column is a vertical representation. I'm not the first person to post that today.

And what is the angle in the picture of the Grand Canyon Supergroup rocks. Are they vertical or horizontal?

Finally, when you read the word "representation" and you then read the following, what did you make of the description of a "time column" in which the layers are stacked on top of each other despite the fact that they were not found that way in the field.

quote:
However, in these cases, the stratigraphic column must either be a structural column, in which the units are stacked with respect to how they are observed in the field to have been moved by the faults, or a time column, in which the units are stacked in the order in which they were formed. they also show the lithology of the rock units.

Edited by NoNukes, : No reason given.

Edited by NoNukes, : No reason given.


Under a government which imprisons any unjustly, the true place for a just man is also in prison. Thoreau: Civil Disobedience (1846)

I have never met a man so ignorant that I couldn't learn something from him. Galileo Galilei

If there is no struggle, there is no progress. Those who profess to favor freedom, and deprecate agitation, are men who want crops without plowing up the ground, they want rain without thunder and lightning. Frederick Douglass


This message is a reply to:
 Message 1281 by Faith, posted 07-15-2014 5:30 PM Faith has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 1291 by Faith, posted 07-15-2014 10:18 PM NoNukes has responded
 Message 1294 by Faith, posted 07-15-2014 10:22 PM NoNukes has acknowledged this reply

    
Coyote
Member
Posts: 5944
Joined: 01-12-2008
Member Rating: 3.8


(2)
Message 1285 of 1304 (733306)
07-15-2014 6:30 PM
Reply to: Message 1276 by Faith
07-15-2014 5:08 PM


Re: Still wrong
Not coal seam!


Religious belief does not constitute scientific evidence, nor does it convey scientific knowledge.

Belief gets in the way of learning--Robert A. Heinlein

How can I possibly put a new idea into your heads, if I do not first remove your delusions?--Robert A. Heinlein

It's not what we don't know that hurts, it's what we know that ain't so--Will Rogers

If I am entitled to something, someone else is obliged to pay--Jerry Pournelle

If a religion's teachings are true, then it should have nothing to fear from science...--dwise1

"Multiculturalism" does not include the American culture. That is what it is against.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 1276 by Faith, posted 07-15-2014 5:08 PM Faith has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 1286 by Faith, posted 07-15-2014 9:43 PM Coyote has responded

  
Faith
Member
Posts: 25903
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 1286 of 1304 (733309)
07-15-2014 9:43 PM
Reply to: Message 1285 by Coyote
07-15-2014 6:30 PM


definitely not a coal seam
Of course that is not a coal seam, but there is also no indication that it relates to what you posted earlier either and in any case it is not a layer in the stratigraphic column so what is your point?
This message is a reply to:
 Message 1285 by Coyote, posted 07-15-2014 6:30 PM Coyote has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 1288 by Coyote, posted 07-15-2014 10:05 PM Faith has responded

    
Faith
Member
Posts: 25903
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 1287 of 1304 (733310)
07-15-2014 9:53 PM
Reply to: Message 1283 by NoNukes
07-15-2014 5:50 PM


But what has been proved?
If it's on Ascension Island it would have to be lava and not coal, for sure.

But let's review the sequence of posts here.

In Message 1255 I said

If you can show where igneous rocks have formed within the column just as flat and horizontal as the sedimentary rocks I'll rethink it. Otherwise you are wrong. The Geologic Column is a vertical stack of horizontal sedimentary rocks, made up of many segments found in many places, fine, but it's still a vertical stack of horizontal flat rocks.

If that is lava that Coyote posted in Message 1261 and it's on Ascension Island, where the Stratigraphic Column would not exist because it's all volcanic, then that is not the Stratigraphic Column depicted in that photo anyway. Perhaps it's layers of lava but it isn't the Stratigraphic (or Geologic) Column.

When lava IS found as a layer in the Stratigraphic Column it is nevertheless an intrusive sill, a younger rock, and not a layer like the sedimentary layers that are the main identifiers of the Column and form the basis of the Geologic Time Scale.

I nevertheless recognize that it is certainly a thick flat layer of lava if that is what it is -- or, to be more precise, I suppose it was originally flat and horizontal. (On the other hand, being lava, maybe it wasn't).

Again, it looks identical to the coal seam I posted in Message 1263 so I am still wondering about its exact identity.

Edited by Faith, : No reason given.

Edited by Faith, : No reason given.

Edited by Faith, : No reason given.

Edited by Faith, : No reason given.

Edited by Faith, : No reason given.

Edited by Faith, : No reason given.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 1283 by NoNukes, posted 07-15-2014 5:50 PM NoNukes has not yet responded

    
Coyote
Member
Posts: 5944
Joined: 01-12-2008
Member Rating: 3.8


Message 1288 of 1304 (733311)
07-15-2014 10:05 PM
Reply to: Message 1286 by Faith
07-15-2014 9:43 PM


Re: definitely not a coal seam
Of course that is not a coal seam, but there is also no indication that it relates to what you posted earlier either and in any case it is not a layer in the stratigraphic column so what is your point?

I posted lava earlier, and without a shred of evidence you determined it was a coal seam.

As I have stated many times already, you have no business even thinking about science. You are simply not qualified.

You have accepted a belief system that requires you to be wrong on just about everything that relies on evidence from the natural world. Why should anyone take anything you say as being accurate?

Were you to say that the sun rises in the east, I would check it out for myself.

And how you expect anyone anywhere to respect your religious beliefs based on your dismal record in these posts is astounding. More likely you are driving people away from religion in droves.

St. Augustine was right.


Religious belief does not constitute scientific evidence, nor does it convey scientific knowledge.

Belief gets in the way of learning--Robert A. Heinlein

How can I possibly put a new idea into your heads, if I do not first remove your delusions?--Robert A. Heinlein

It's not what we don't know that hurts, it's what we know that ain't so--Will Rogers

If I am entitled to something, someone else is obliged to pay--Jerry Pournelle

If a religion's teachings are true, then it should have nothing to fear from science...--dwise1

"Multiculturalism" does not include the American culture. That is what it is against.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 1286 by Faith, posted 07-15-2014 9:43 PM Faith has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 1289 by Faith, posted 07-15-2014 10:08 PM Coyote has responded

  
Faith
Member
Posts: 25903
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 1289 of 1304 (733312)
07-15-2014 10:08 PM
Reply to: Message 1288 by Coyote
07-15-2014 10:05 PM


Re: definitely not a coal seam
You are WAY out of line Mister. What you posted LOOKS like a coal seam, like the one I showed you next. NOW you are posting a sea of lava overflowing a road and you have the unmitigated gall, the nerve, to say I'm wrong that THAT is not a coal seam? And now you are bringing religious belief into a discussion of physical facts? You deserve a smack into the next millennium.

Edited by Faith, : No reason given.

Edited by Faith, : No reason given.

Edited by Faith, : No reason given.

Edited by Faith, : No reason given.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 1288 by Coyote, posted 07-15-2014 10:05 PM Coyote has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 1292 by Coyote, posted 07-15-2014 10:20 PM Faith has not yet responded

    
Adminnemooseus
Director
Posts: 3819
Joined: 09-26-2002
Member Rating: 2.7


Message 1290 of 1304 (733313)
07-15-2014 10:14 PM


Summation time, going to do it at 1300 messages
This topic turned into a discussion of many things geology and there have been quite a few good messages.

There has also been quite a few bad messages.

Faith has been getting dog-piled A LOT - I find it remarkable that she has kept up as well as she has.

Let's wrap this one up and try to get some better focus into one or more new topics. I think one or more Faith vs (?) might be a good thing.

Adminnemooseus


Or something like that.

    
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