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Author Topic:   Continuation of Flood Discussion
Faith
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Posts: 26449
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 1291 of 1304 (733314)
07-15-2014 10:18 PM
Reply to: Message 1284 by NoNukes
07-15-2014 5:57 PM


Re: That long river in Egypt...
I shouldn't have to answer this stupid objection. It's been answered a million times before. Yes the Geo or Strata Column can be deformed in many ways and its original order have to be reconstructed, so why bring that up again? Faulting, intrusive lava, any other kind of deformation can make it necessary, and difficult, to r3econstruct it.

And again, I know there is no such thing as a perfect representative of the Geo/Strata Column anywhere, it's a construct made up of many incomplete representatives.

Stop raising these idiotic objections that have already been answered.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 1284 by NoNukes, posted 07-15-2014 5:57 PM NoNukes has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 1299 by NoNukes, posted 07-15-2014 10:58 PM Faith has responded

    
Coyote
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Posts: 6013
Joined: 01-12-2008
Member Rating: 2.4


Message 1292 of 1304 (733315)
07-15-2014 10:20 PM
Reply to: Message 1289 by Faith
07-15-2014 10:08 PM


Re: definitely not a coal seam
I post pictures that the folks who were there and who took the pictures identify as lava flows, and you -- from a distance and working from a twisted religions belief -- determine, without any first-hand knowledge, that it must be a coal seam?

And you call me "out of line????"

I'm afraid you are losing it. Get back on your meds.

Add by edit: I guess this will have to serve as my summary for the entire thread. It does seem appropriate anyway.

Edited by Coyote, : Posted after the "Summary" warning.


Religious belief does not constitute scientific evidence, nor does it convey scientific knowledge.

Belief gets in the way of learning--Robert A. Heinlein

How can I possibly put a new idea into your heads, if I do not first remove your delusions?--Robert A. Heinlein

It's not what we don't know that hurts, it's what we know that ain't so--Will Rogers

If I am entitled to something, someone else is obliged to pay--Jerry Pournelle

If a religion's teachings are true, then it should have nothing to fear from science...--dwise1

"Multiculturalism" does not include the American culture. That is what it is against.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 1289 by Faith, posted 07-15-2014 10:08 PM Faith has not yet responded

  
Percy
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Posts: 16030
From: New Hampshire
Joined: 12-23-2000
Member Rating: 3.1


(1)
Message 1293 of 1304 (733316)
07-15-2014 10:22 PM
Reply to: Message 1281 by Faith
07-15-2014 5:30 PM


Re: Igneous rock layers and Geo Golumn definition.
Stratigraphic column is just a synonym for geologic column. Encyclopedia.com provides a more clear definition of stratigraphic column:

stratigraphic column
1. A succession of rocks laid down during a specified interval of geologic time. The phrase ‘the stratigraphic column’ often refers to the whole sequence of strata deposited throughout geologic time.

2. A simplified columnar diagram relating a succession of named lithostratigraphic units from a particular area to the subdivisions of geologic time.

And here's the definition of lithostratigraphic unit:

lithostratigraphic unit (rock unit, rock-stratigraphic unit)
A body of rock forming a discrete and recognizable unit, of reasonable homogeneity, defined solely on the basis of its lithological characteristics (see LITHOLOGY). A lithological unit may be sedimentary, igneous, metamorphic, or a combination of these. As with other stratigraphic units, lithostratigraphic units are defined according to type sections. Their boundaries are placed at surfaces of lithologic change, usually sudden but sometimes gradational. As the physical nature of the units reflects depositional environments rather than time spans, the boundaries of lithological units may be diachronous. Lithostratigraphic units are comparatively local in extent when compared to the world-wide compass of chronostratigraphic units. They are ranked in decreasing order of magnitude in supergroups, groups, formations, members, and beds. A diverse, but distinctive and interrelated body of rock that cannot be subdivided into any other lithostratigraphic unit is termed a ‘complex’.

And as NoNukes pointed out, the definition at Wikipedia also includes igneous and metamorphic rock. You can't exclude them. If you use the term "geologic column" then igneous and metamorphic rock are part of geology and of course are part of the geologic column. And if you use the term "stratigraphic column" then igneous and metamorphic rock are strata and of course are part of the stratigraphic column.

Anywhere you stand on the Earth, the rocks beneath your feet all the way down to the mantle represent the geologic column at that location.

--Percy


This message is a reply to:
 Message 1281 by Faith, posted 07-15-2014 5:30 PM Faith has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 1296 by Faith, posted 07-15-2014 10:32 PM Percy has responded

    
Faith
Member
Posts: 26449
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 1294 of 1304 (733317)
07-15-2014 10:22 PM
Reply to: Message 1284 by NoNukes
07-15-2014 5:57 PM


Just another detour around the block
duplicate of one a few posts above. No idea how that happened.

Edited by Faith, : No reason given.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 1284 by NoNukes, posted 07-15-2014 5:57 PM NoNukes has acknowledged this reply

    
Dr Adequate
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Posts: 15960
Joined: 07-20-2006
Member Rating: 5.6


Message 1295 of 1304 (733318)
07-15-2014 10:23 PM
Reply to: Message 1281 by Faith
07-15-2014 5:30 PM


Re: Igneous rock layers and Geo Golumn definition.
What I've been calling the Geologic Column is called at Wikipedia the
Stratigraphic Column.

No. A stratigraphic column is specific to a particular location. (Hence, of course, there is no such thing as "the stratigraphic column".)


This message is a reply to:
 Message 1281 by Faith, posted 07-15-2014 5:30 PM Faith has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 1298 by Faith, posted 07-15-2014 10:58 PM Dr Adequate has not yet responded

  
Faith
Member
Posts: 26449
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001
Member Rating: 1.1


(1)
Message 1296 of 1304 (733319)
07-15-2014 10:32 PM
Reply to: Message 1293 by Percy
07-15-2014 10:22 PM


Re: Igneous rock layers and Geo Golumn definition.
NO. The Geo/Strata column is ONLY sedimentary rocks because those are the ones the Geologic Time Scale has to refer to and those are the only ones ever represented for that time scale. They are also the only ones that contain fossils.
This message is a reply to:
 Message 1293 by Percy, posted 07-15-2014 10:22 PM Percy has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 1297 by Percy, posted 07-15-2014 10:43 PM Faith has not yet responded

    
Percy
Member
Posts: 16030
From: New Hampshire
Joined: 12-23-2000
Member Rating: 3.1


Message 1297 of 1304 (733320)
07-15-2014 10:43 PM
Reply to: Message 1296 by Faith
07-15-2014 10:32 PM


Re: Igneous rock layers and Geo Golumn definition.
Well, no, not according to definition 2 at Encyclopedia.com, though this does call attention to some minor internal inconsistencies in the definitions. For example, a stratum is usually defined as a sedimentary layer, but an igneous intrusion is still referred to as a stratum, as is a layer of volcanic rock.

Rest assured that whether you call it a geologic column or a stratigraphic column, and regardless whether the layers are deformed or not, sediments deposited on top add to the geologic column.

--Percy


This message is a reply to:
 Message 1296 by Faith, posted 07-15-2014 10:32 PM Faith has not yet responded

    
Faith
Member
Posts: 26449
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 1298 of 1304 (733321)
07-15-2014 10:58 PM
Reply to: Message 1295 by Dr Adequate
07-15-2014 10:23 PM


Re: Igneous rock layers and Geo Golumn definition.
OK, GEOLOGIC COLUMN THEN.
This message is a reply to:
 Message 1295 by Dr Adequate, posted 07-15-2014 10:23 PM Dr Adequate has not yet responded

    
NoNukes
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Posts: 9997
From: Central NC USA
Joined: 08-13-2010
Member Rating: 2.2


Message 1299 of 1304 (733322)
07-15-2014 10:58 PM
Reply to: Message 1291 by Faith
07-15-2014 10:18 PM


Re: That long river in Egypt...
And again, I know there is no such thing as a perfect representative of the Geo/Strata Column anywhere, it's a construct made up of many incomplete representatives.

Stop raising these idiotic objections that have already been answered.

I did not raise the objection uninvited. I brought up the fact that the role of igneous rock and its relationship to the geological column was explained in an article that you claimed did not even mention igneous rock. You do not even have the decency to acknowledge your error.


Under a government which imprisons any unjustly, the true place for a just man is also in prison. Thoreau: Civil Disobedience (1846)

I have never met a man so ignorant that I couldn't learn something from him. Galileo Galilei

If there is no struggle, there is no progress. Those who profess to favor freedom, and deprecate agitation, are men who want crops without plowing up the ground, they want rain without thunder and lightning. Frederick Douglass


This message is a reply to:
 Message 1291 by Faith, posted 07-15-2014 10:18 PM Faith has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 1300 by Faith, posted 07-15-2014 10:59 PM NoNukes has not yet responded

    
Faith
Member
Posts: 26449
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 1300 of 1304 (733323)
07-15-2014 10:59 PM
Reply to: Message 1299 by NoNukes
07-15-2014 10:58 PM


Tried to post a summary and got the message I already had though I hadn't, so I'll make this one my summary.

What can I say, an extremely frustrating thread on which I think I got in some good posts though you'd never know it from the opposition.

It occurred to me recently that it would be nice to have a feature where we could register our own favorite posts, or posts we'd like to keep track of for whatever reason. Maybe something like a star on each post we could activate to mark our favorites, and some way to retrieve all the starred posts too of course.

Still can hardly believe the discussion about the Geologic Column, so many insisting it means something it can't possibly mean. Then I thought Wikipedia equated it with Stratigraphic Column, and Percy also said he regards the terms as synonymous, but then Dr. Adequate said Stratigraphic Column refers only to local strata. So who knows, but I think I'm going back to Geologic Column.

Lava/coal. That was a weird one. Looks like a coal seam, but maybe it was lava, which it would be if it's on a volcanic island, but then it can't be part of the Geologic Column for the very reason that it's on a volcanic island where there is no Geologic Column. Doesn't matter, does it, I'm wrong no matter what I say, that's the rule here.

Hardly remember earlier parts of the thread unfortunately. But that's OK. The usual exercise in futility has come to an end, though this one might have been even more futile than others, maybe there's a trend.

Hey, here's my summation:

The very image of wacko futility.

Or maybe it was just a weird nightmare:

Edited by Faith, : No reason given.

Edited by Faith, : No reason given.

Edited by Faith, : No reason given.

Edited by Faith, : No reason given.

Edited by Faith, : No reason given.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 1299 by NoNukes, posted 07-15-2014 10:58 PM NoNukes has not yet responded

    
JonF
Member
Posts: 3969
Joined: 06-23-2003
Member Rating: 2.2


(1)
Message 1301 of 1304 (733329)
07-16-2014 7:44 AM


I just can't avoid replying to one:

But that is not at all clear just from the picture when the flat layers were laid down. There's something odd about that picture. Where is it and what is it?

I answered that question very specifically at least four times, maybe five. Obviously you didn't read those answers. You would do much better if you read the messages to which you are ostensibly (look it up) replying.

Faith has made quite a long thread by trying to deny the obvious: the geologic column (or whatever you want to call it) is a complex structure, vertical indeed, but comprised of flat and horizontal sediments, deformed sediments, igneous layers (we never even mentioned tephras) and intrusions and dikes, and metamorphic layers and all sorts of rocks. Indeed, it's all the rocks under the Earth's surface. This was proven, with references, over and over again.

Faith refused to even acknowledge the existence of the real definitions and insisted on her own made-up fantasy. That raises serious question about whether she sees any difference between reality and the fantasies she makes up. I feel sorry for her; she's obviously happy in her la-la-land but she is missing so much.


  
Pressie
Member
Posts: 1808
From: Pretoria, SA
Joined: 06-18-2010
Member Rating: 2.2


Message 1302 of 1304 (733441)
07-17-2014 9:35 AM


My summary
I thought that the thread ended when Faith got confused about a basalt and coal. I don't think that any mining company in the world would ever employ a so-called geologist confused about the differences between a basalt and coal.

Edited by Pressie, : No reason given.


    
ringo
Member
Posts: 13730
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005
Member Rating: 1.7


Message 1303 of 1304 (733467)
07-17-2014 12:57 PM


And in conclusion...
According to Faith, some layers are not layers.

I would add that some floods are not floods; they're fiction.


  
edge
Member
Posts: 4002
From: Colorado, USA
Joined: 01-09-2002
Member Rating: 2.7


(1)
Message 1304 of 1304 (733525)
07-17-2014 9:45 PM


Still can hardly believe the discussion about the Geologic Column, so many insisting it means something it can't possibly mean. Then I thought Wikipedia equated it with Stratigraphic Column, and Percy also said he regards the terms as synonymous, but then Dr. Adequate said Stratigraphic Column refers only to local strata. So who knows, but I think I'm going back to Geologic Column.

This is partly where Faith's confusion lies. There is no generalized 'geologic column'. Each column is unique to its location. And correct, it is a strat column. That is why one column may 'end' with erosion, but it continues elsewhere. because that is the way things work. The geologic time scale is, however, a different subject.

Lava/coal. That was a weird one. Looks like a coal seam, but maybe it was lava, which it would be if it's on a volcanic island, but then it can't be part of the Geologic Column for the very reason that it's on a volcanic island where there is no Geologic Column. Doesn't matter, does it, I'm wrong no matter what I say, that's the rule here.

I was MIA during this part of the discussion but it is pretty clear that the color of a bed, alone, is not sufficient for identification. It seems to me that the bed is a basaltic pyroclastic unit. However, it is part of the geologic column for that location. It can be generalized as part of a geologic column. AFAIK, any unit can be part of the geologic column, as some of the examples shown will indicate.
  
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