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Author Topic:   More on Diet and Carbohydrates
RAZD
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Posts: 19719
From: the other end of the sidewalk
Joined: 03-14-2004
Member Rating: 2.8


(1)
Message 196 of 237 (766381)
08-17-2015 4:05 PM
Reply to: Message 194 by nwr
08-17-2015 11:20 AM


Re: On chemicals in foods
It probably has more to do with the invention of the refrigerator and the television set.

I just look at the labels of processed food, and see a lot of chemicals that are added - things that were never in our previous diet.

Example: if I drink milk mixed with Hershey's instant chocolate I break out in an itchy rash on my chest, but if I use Nestles instant chocolate nothing happens. The chocolate is the same (and I can eat Hershey's chocolate bars with no effect), the sugar is the same ...

Now I agree that this is anecdotal and not objective evidence, however it raises my suspicions.

This is one reason I avoid processed food as much as possible. This is also a reason I would like to see ever single ingredient labelled.

Enjoy


we are limited in our ability to understand
by our ability to understand
RebelAmerican☆Zen☯Deist
... to learn ... to think ... to live ... to laugh ...
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This message is a reply to:
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Replies to this message:
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ramoss
Member
Posts: 3090
Joined: 08-11-2004


(1)
Message 197 of 237 (766432)
08-18-2015 11:34 AM
Reply to: Message 196 by RAZD
08-17-2015 4:05 PM


Re: On chemicals in foods
Another thing that has happened in the last 30 years, the incidence of early onslaught Alzheimer has increased drastically. It could be that people aren't dying of other things, but it very likely could be environmental, such as the chemicals in our food, or other factors.
This message is a reply to:
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Faith
Member
Posts: 30161
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001
Member Rating: 1.1


(1)
Message 198 of 237 (766453)
08-18-2015 1:11 PM


juicing
Thread seems to be getting off the topic of carbs in the diet and the effect on weight gain.

I haven't yet got organized for the low-carb diet I need to get on for the next few months though I've cut out a few things, and I did finally get my new juicer up and running and made this absolutely fantastic juice this morning:

2 large tomatoes
1 cucumber, peeled
5 stalks of celery
4 large carrots
2 compressed handfuls of spinach
2 small beets, peeled
1 Granny Smith apple
1 whole lemon, peeled
1 small piece of onion

This is one yummy juice, tangy, hard to stop drinking it.

This could get expensive though. That's a lot of vegetable servings.

The machine's pitcher holds a whole quart and this filled it to the top. It's not a good idea to keep juice for very long because it loses nutritional value but a few hours in the fridge should be okay, so I get two very large glasses of juice today.

Hope it will take the place of a meal or two. Juicing isn't on the Atkins diet but no reason it shouldn't be.

Edited by Faith, : No reason given.


    
Percy
Member
Posts: 17965
From: New Hampshire
Joined: 12-23-2000
Member Rating: 2.1


Message 199 of 237 (769624)
09-23-2015 12:23 PM


Fat is Making a Comeback
Consumers Are Embracing Full-Fat Foods, says a New York Times headline. A few excerpts:

quote:
Public health authorities have long urged Americans to cut back on foods high in saturated fat like butter, meat and whole milk. But a new report on dietary-fat consumption suggests that the public is increasingly eating more, not less, of these foods.

The new report, which was published last week by the Credit Suisse Research Institute, found that sales of butter in the United States rose 14 percent last year and climbed another 6 percent in the first three months of 2015. Sales of whole milk rose 11 percent in the first half of this year, while skim milk purchases fell 14 percent. The report also predicted that consumption of red meat and eggs would climb in the coming years.
...
In recent years, a number of studies have cast doubt on the health benefits of the traditional low-fat diet, suggesting instead that eating more fat with the exception of trans fats and less sugar and refined carbohydrates might be better for overall health.
...
The trends identified in the new report suggest that Americans have not been embracing the advice on saturated fat long dispensed by the federal government and groups like the American Heart Association, which for decades have told Americans to cut it from their diets.


--Percy


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ringo
Member
Posts: 15737
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005
Member Rating: 1.7


(1)
Message 200 of 237 (769625)
09-23-2015 12:39 PM
Reply to: Message 199 by Percy
09-23-2015 12:23 PM


Re: Fat is Making a Comeback
Percy writes:

Fat is Making a Comeback


By the time I'm dead, all the things that have been bad for me all my life will be good for me.
This message is a reply to:
 Message 199 by Percy, posted 09-23-2015 12:23 PM Percy has acknowledged this reply

Replies to this message:
 Message 202 by Omnivorous, posted 09-23-2015 4:40 PM ringo has responded
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Faith
Member
Posts: 30161
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 201 of 237 (769635)
09-23-2015 3:43 PM


trying to lose weight by cutting carbs
I went all out for fat once I discovered the Atkins diet and lost weight on it. The problem is that fat and carbohydrates together will put weight on you faster than either fat or carbs alone, and once the weight has been lost my problem is adding back the carbs and not being careful enough about it. And as often happens in that stage I get into not caring if I get fat. So I get fat. Doctor now wants to up my blood pressure med unless I can lose enough weight to make a difference. OK so I promised him and I've been trying. Emphasis on meat and vegetables, eliminating the pasta. Problem is sandwiches are SO easy I haven't been able to get the bread out of my regime. Decided I'd keep the bread and get rid of the heavy cream in my coffee, so I've been having tea. Something is working because I'm losing weight, not hand over fist but I'm losing. The days I do nothing but meat and veggies I feel best about, the sandwich days happen but not as often.

The juices I love so much are still part of it but I had to make some changes there too because the veggies that make them taste so good are of course the very high carb veggies: the beets, carrots, and the apple. I can't cut them out completely, that would be too Spartan and the idea is to enjoy the food. That's what Atkins gets across so well. Aim to avoid a feeling of deprivation, starvation, all the unpleasant stuff of dieting. So cut back but not out, still good juices.

You can juice an entire bunch of greens and feel REALLY good about it, all those vitamins and minerals and not a lot of calories or carbs, and the green taste is hardly noticeable with a beet or a couple carrots or an apple. A whole bunch of greens is expensive though if you do a juice every day as I've been trying to do.

I'm off to a rocky but nevertheless somewhat effective start, and success does breed success. Already I find myself preferring the pork chop with sauted cabbage to the sandwich.

Anyway, while fats ARE just fine you've got to watch having them with too much of the bad carbs like potatoes and pasta and bread.

Coyote seems to have the best idea: have those things once in a while, otherwise stay away from the carbs altogether. Have the bacon (and eggs in my case), skip the potatoes and toast except once in a while.

.

Edited by Faith, : No reason given.


Replies to this message:
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Omnivorous
Member (Idle past 942 days)
Posts: 3808
From: Adirondackia
Joined: 07-21-2005


Message 202 of 237 (769645)
09-23-2015 4:40 PM
Reply to: Message 200 by ringo
09-23-2015 12:39 PM


Re: Fat is Making a Comeback
ringo writes:

By the time I'm dead, all the things that have been bad for me all my life will be good for me.

Sacrifice pleasure for longevity?

I like to think about the people who will be shocked when they die of nothing.


"If you can keep your head while those around you are losing theirs, you can collect a lot of heads."

Homo sum, humani nihil a me alienum puto.
-Terence


This message is a reply to:
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Replies to this message:
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RAZD
Member
Posts: 19719
From: the other end of the sidewalk
Joined: 03-14-2004
Member Rating: 2.8


Message 203 of 237 (769649)
09-23-2015 5:40 PM
Reply to: Message 200 by ringo
09-23-2015 12:39 PM


Re: Fat is Making a Comeback
By the time I'm dead, all the things that have been bad for me all my life will be good for me.

Woody Allen, Sleeper.


we are limited in our ability to understand
by our ability to understand
RebelAmerican☆Zen☯Deist
... to learn ... to think ... to live ... to laugh ...
to share.


Join the effort to solve medical problems, AIDS/HIV, Cancer and more with Team EvC! (click)

This message is a reply to:
 Message 200 by ringo, posted 09-23-2015 12:39 PM ringo has acknowledged this reply

  
RAZD
Member
Posts: 19719
From: the other end of the sidewalk
Joined: 03-14-2004
Member Rating: 2.8


(2)
Message 204 of 237 (769652)
09-23-2015 5:49 PM
Reply to: Message 201 by Faith
09-23-2015 3:43 PM


Re: trying to lose weight by cutting carbs
I went all out for fat once I discovered the Atkins diet and lost weight on it. ...

I went from 210 to 180. 200 is my break point to go back (actually it is belt size, which is actually a better measure than weight because muscle = 2+ fat for weight but not for waist).
f
I cut out bread, added sugars of all kinds, starch (sigh pasta) and all processed foods.

This year the garden has done very well for us (grocery bill dropped over $50/week) with fresh organic produce.

Personally I think processed food is the biggest evil foisted on the american public and that all the chemical additives are responsible for all sorts of diseases from allergies to diabetes.

Enjoy


we are limited in our ability to understand
by our ability to understand
RebelAmerican☆Zen☯Deist
... to learn ... to think ... to live ... to laugh ...
to share.


Join the effort to solve medical problems, AIDS/HIV, Cancer and more with Team EvC! (click)

This message is a reply to:
 Message 201 by Faith, posted 09-23-2015 3:43 PM Faith has not yet responded

  
Coyote
Member (Idle past 80 days)
Posts: 6117
Joined: 01-12-2008


(3)
Message 205 of 237 (769663)
09-23-2015 9:10 PM


Carbs etc.
RAZD and Faith--

I'm still doing well with the modified "paleo" diet.

I avoid sugars and processed foods as much as possible, also bread, pasta and anything that converts to sugars, such as potatoes. But I go out at least twice a week for a fine breakfast of a mushroom, cheese and bacon omelet and country potatoes.

Several other days a week, breakfast is tea (nothing added) and either bacon or sausage, then no lunch. The fat seems to fool the brain into not being so hungry. But then I'm out of the house most days, so food isn't so near to hand and that is an advantage.

Even sillier--after a break of several decades I've started fencing again, which I did for quite a while as a wee lad. The legs are ready to sue me for abuse! But the exercise is good and I can still show the youngsters a few tricks!

Anyway, cutting the carbs and adding good fat (rib eye!) seems to work for me. YMMV


  
Percy
Member
Posts: 17965
From: New Hampshire
Joined: 12-23-2000
Member Rating: 2.1


Message 206 of 237 (769718)
09-24-2015 8:22 AM
Reply to: Message 201 by Faith
09-23-2015 3:43 PM


Re: trying to lose weight by cutting carbs
Faith writes:

The problem is that fat and carbohydrates together will put weight on you faster than either fat or carbs alone,...

There's a metabolic explanation that suggests this may be true. Carbohydrates contain glucose. The presence of glucose in the blood stream causes the pancreas to release insulin. Insulin causes glucose to be absorbed by muscle and fat tissue.

But insulin also causes fat in the bloodstream to be stored, so any meal that combines fat and carbohydrates will be even more fattening. I don't know if any studies have been done demonstrating that the same amounts of fat and carbohydrates are more fattening when combined in the same meals instead of portioned into separate meals, but anecdotal stories like yours are common (my experience is the same) and certainly suggest that it may be true.

--Percy


This message is a reply to:
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Replies to this message:
 Message 207 by Faith, posted 09-24-2015 10:38 AM Percy has acknowledged this reply
 Message 210 by petrophysics1, posted 09-29-2015 2:00 PM Percy has acknowledged this reply

    
Faith
Member
Posts: 30161
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 207 of 237 (769725)
09-24-2015 10:38 AM
Reply to: Message 206 by Percy
09-24-2015 8:22 AM


Re: trying to lose weight by cutting carbs
Yes I remember you saying something along these lines. It's hard to have carbs without fat though: Mayo on a sandwich, butter on potatoes etc. The other way around works though, fat without carbs.

Weight problems are so much a product of diet history it's hard to know exactly what to do.


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ringo
Member
Posts: 15737
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005
Member Rating: 1.7


(1)
Message 208 of 237 (769734)
09-24-2015 11:42 AM
Reply to: Message 202 by Omnivorous
09-23-2015 4:40 PM


Re: Fat is Making a Comeback
Omnivorous writes:

I like to think about the people who will be shocked when they die of nothing.


When my youngest brother died he was perfectly healthy - except for being dead, of course.
This message is a reply to:
 Message 202 by Omnivorous, posted 09-23-2015 4:40 PM Omnivorous has acknowledged this reply

  
Omnivorous
Member (Idle past 942 days)
Posts: 3808
From: Adirondackia
Joined: 07-21-2005


(2)
Message 209 of 237 (769761)
09-24-2015 3:48 PM
Reply to: Message 207 by Faith
09-24-2015 10:38 AM


Re: trying to lose weight by cutting carbs
Faith writes:

Weight problems are so much a product of diet history it's hard to know exactly what to do.

I never had a problem with weight until I could no longer burn lots of calories; I can't sustain any kind of cardio workout now, and so, jokes aside, I do have to be careful.

I eat pretty much what I want, within certain guidelines:

No processed food. That's huge: they are calorically dense beyond our ev....eh, experience.

Avoid snacks, esp. sugary snacks, between meals; don't fill your plate more than once.

Eat more veggies, fruits and whole grains than flesh; eat more chicken and fish than beef and pork.

Being me, I break all those rules, but not too often.

I gained 20 lbs. last fall/winter, working with a master carpenter to put board-and batten on the outside of my cabin, and clear western cedar on the high ceiling. You probably didn't know that 'master carpenter" is local dialect for 'drinks many beers'. So I limited those in the spring, and now work alone. I've lost most of that 20. I got started by fasting on Sundays for the first month of desperately seeking weight loss.

I'm leery of diets altogether, esp. those that posit extreme ratios on food groups or rule one out altogether.

Are we not omnivores?


"If you can keep your head while those around you are losing theirs, you can collect a lot of heads."

Homo sum, humani nihil a me alienum puto.
-Terence


This message is a reply to:
 Message 207 by Faith, posted 09-24-2015 10:38 AM Faith has not yet responded

    
petrophysics1
Inactive Member


Message 210 of 237 (770103)
09-29-2015 2:00 PM
Reply to: Message 206 by Percy
09-24-2015 8:22 AM


How to lose weight...for sure
Percy,

This is the method I came up with for losing weight. It has worked for everyone that I have explained it to. It requires no calorie counting (something I know nothing about) or restricting the types of food you eat, other than don't eat sugar. So I eat whatever I like once a day for supper. Could be steak, a baked potato with butter, green beans and cauliflower with browned butter and a salad with French dressing, or stir fry or spaghetti.........doesn't matter.

Third week in March this year I am at the doc's..holy shit I weigh 217 lbs, never weighed that much. Of more concern is my blood pressure is 153/95 and he wants to give me meds. I've never had high blood pressure. So I tell him no meds, I'll lose weight. He doesn't believe me, and for good reason since he knows your stats on how well losing weight works.

August 15th this year 180 lbs, blood pressure 122/64. I am at a plateau of 180 right now but should be down to 165 by the end of the year which for me at 6 feet tall is no fat at all on me. That's 37 lbs in a bit over 4 months. Pant size 40 tight down to 36 loose.

This is what I do and it is based on a book I read back in the 70's on fasting. If you fast your tongue will turn white because you are consuming body fat. This appears to be true for everyone. So I applied this idea to dieting. I eat my one meal(and it could be very large depending on how much physical work I'm doing) but if I have not eaten too much sometime during the next day my tongue will start to get coated white. I shoot for noon to 1PM which means I'm living on body fat about 25% of the day. If you eat too much your tongue may not start to get coated till maybe 5 or 6 PM or not at all.

Compared to any kind of diet a doc puts you on or you read about this gives you a way within 24 hours to see if you have eaten too much. So if your tongue doesn't start to get coated before your next meal you need to skip it or make it small and see what time the next day your tongue starts to get coated.

This also allows for adjusting for your physical activity. You need more food if you are working hard. No problem just make sure your tongue is coated before your next meal. It means that even for a small part of the day you are using body fat.

I have since March eaten everything you can probably imagine including apple pie or peach or pumpkin with ice cream, or ice cream with various fruits. I know I said no sugar, but who cares....this is not exactly a "diet...ALL that matters is if your tongue gets coated the next day. If it does you are consuming body fat and what you ate doesn't make a difference.

A note for anyone who wants to try this it may take up to 3 days of not eating much to see your tongue get coated. Once that happens just make sure you keep it going the following day after you eat. You don't have to do anything else.

BTW I did this in 1980 with my friend Bob. We ate stir fry every night. a full 3 inch by 15 inch skillet of food. Close to a pound of meat with the rest being vegetables, carrots, cauliflower,cabbage, green beans, onions, green peppers etc. Then I would drink a bottle of wine and he would do the better part of a six pack of beer as we BS'ed. We both lost over 20 in 4 months. BUT the tongue has to get coated sometime during the following day, that's all you have to do.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 206 by Percy, posted 09-24-2015 8:22 AM Percy has acknowledged this reply

  
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