Register | Sign In


Understanding through Discussion


EvC Forum active members: 64 (9164 total)
2 online now:
Newest Member: ChatGPT
Post Volume: Total: 916,824 Year: 4,081/9,624 Month: 952/974 Week: 279/286 Day: 0/40 Hour: 0/0


Thread  Details

Email This Thread
Newer Topic | Older Topic
  
Author Topic:   The Search for Moderate Islam
Theodoric
Member
Posts: 9197
From: Northwest, WI, USA
Joined: 08-15-2005
Member Rating: 3.2


(1)
Message 241 of 432 (746759)
01-09-2015 2:43 PM
Reply to: Message 209 by Faith
01-09-2015 10:15 AM


Re: Still making the same mistake.
And here you can see where Muslim leaders are quoted.
Hezbollah Leader Says Islamic Extremists Have Hurt Islam More Than Cartoonists
But we know they are just lying, right.
Edited by Theodoric, : Fix link

Facts don't lie or have an agenda. Facts are just facts
"God did it" is not an argument. It is an excuse for intellectual laziness.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 209 by Faith, posted 01-09-2015 10:15 AM Faith has not replied

  
Theodoric
Member
Posts: 9197
From: Northwest, WI, USA
Joined: 08-15-2005
Member Rating: 3.2


(1)
Message 242 of 432 (746761)
01-09-2015 2:52 PM
Reply to: Message 223 by Faith
01-09-2015 11:28 AM


Re: the Triunity
Either the Constitution goofed or it is misunderstood.
Maybe you should move to someplace more to your liking. Like Russia, where it is illegal for gay people to drive now.
Russia Bans Gay Drivers: Law Bans Transgenders, 'Disorders Of Sexual Orientation' From Driving - Inquisitr

Facts don't lie or have an agenda. Facts are just facts
"God did it" is not an argument. It is an excuse for intellectual laziness.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 223 by Faith, posted 01-09-2015 11:28 AM Faith has not replied

  
Theodoric
Member
Posts: 9197
From: Northwest, WI, USA
Joined: 08-15-2005
Member Rating: 3.2


Message 243 of 432 (746763)
01-09-2015 2:55 PM


Searching for moderate christians
Faith,
Do you agree this pastor?
Christian Pastor: I Believe Mocking Jesus Should Be Outlawed!
Edited by Theodoric, : link again

Facts don't lie or have an agenda. Facts are just facts
"God did it" is not an argument. It is an excuse for intellectual laziness.

  
RAZD
Member (Idle past 1432 days)
Posts: 20714
From: the other end of the sidewalk
Joined: 03-14-2004


(1)
Message 244 of 432 (746768)
01-09-2015 3:42 PM
Reply to: Message 217 by Faith
01-09-2015 10:59 AM


Re: cults and the fear driven conservative mind
Concerning public outcry, I mean that the public outcry that condemned the irrational endangering of Americans by allowing ebola into the country did at least have the effect of causing the information about the danger to be suppressed. ...
No Faith, what happened is that the real danger of ebola in this country was ignored by the rabid right for political gain in the election who spread fear instead of real information.
The information on the real danger from ebola was provided -- along with the precautions that are necessary to handle it without spreading it. Those protocols were followed and as a result there was no outbreak of ebola in this country -- from the courageous and dedicated doctors and nurses who traveled to Africa to help contain the disease there. The ebola that did get to the states was contained, controlled and eliminated by these protocols. Before the election occurred the "outbreak" was over.
... The reality? Wait and see. I haven't heard any news about planes being turned away, have you?
No and I don't expect to: the reality is that ebola can be contained, that people traveling from Africa that happen to have ebola will get better detection and treatment in the US and have a higher probability of surviving than if you turn planes away. This is proven by those that did arrive and were treated and survived. That is how you handle it, not with fear and xenophobia.
Turning planes away just means that people take alternate, longer routes, and are more likely to hide from detection. That is NOT how you handle it.
You guys just love emotion, you'd think everything was run on emotion to listen to you. Fear, homophobia, hate, etc. This is a sad degeneration of both public discourse and public policy. I no more think from fear or any emotion than you do, or than you think you do and I hope you do, I think according to my judgment of reality.
No, Faith it is facts. You have provided none in your fear obsessed post (emotional).
For instance, it is stpid and dangerous to allow potentially ebola-infected people to move around the world where they can infect others.
Which is what turning planes away would do. What is not stupid and dangerous is to have detection screening at arrival sites and protocols to isolate and treat potential victims, which is how the situation was handled.
It is also stupd and dangerous to treat murderous cults as protected religions when their stated aim is to subjugate the world, when they are murdering "infidels" all over the world as we speak, when they are doing violence in cities in Europe etc.
What is stupid and dangerous is to treat all members of a group based on the actions of a subgroup that can be identified within the larger group. Do you want to radicalize moderates? Treat them as terrorists and you will get your wish fulfilled. It isn't islam that makes terrorists it is oppression.
It is also stpid and dangerous to continue to support Marxism and Communism when these have been shown to lead to nothing but the violent destruction of societies and the oppression of dissidents. And yes, Capitalism is the best economic system ever devised. Not perfect, best.
see Message 30 on Marxism vs Socialism vs Communism vs Totalitarianisms.
These are RATIONAL assessments. It would be irrational, however, not to have a healthy fear of the country's being run by such stupd and dangerous thinking.
As opposed to ... say ... the reality denying republican party? The ones that herd you with irrational fears as opposed to facts and proven science and economics?
Enjoy

we are limited in our ability to understand
by our ability to understand
RebelAmerican☆Zen☯Deist
... to learn ... to think ... to live ... to laugh ...
to share.


Join the effort to solve medical problems, AIDS/HIV, Cancer and more with Team EvC! (click)

This message is a reply to:
 Message 217 by Faith, posted 01-09-2015 10:59 AM Faith has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 245 by Faith, posted 01-09-2015 3:46 PM RAZD has replied

  
Faith 
Suspended Member (Idle past 1471 days)
Posts: 35298
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001


Message 245 of 432 (746770)
01-09-2015 3:46 PM
Reply to: Message 244 by RAZD
01-09-2015 3:42 PM


Re: cults and the fear driven conservative mind
Wait and see.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 244 by RAZD, posted 01-09-2015 3:42 PM RAZD has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 246 by RAZD, posted 01-09-2015 5:21 PM Faith has not replied

  
RAZD
Member (Idle past 1432 days)
Posts: 20714
From: the other end of the sidewalk
Joined: 03-14-2004


Message 246 of 432 (746779)
01-09-2015 5:21 PM
Reply to: Message 245 by Faith
01-09-2015 3:46 PM


Re: cults and the fear driven conservative mind
Wait and see.
How long? 2,000 years?
Or do I look at the facts and see that the threat from terrorists of all stripes is remote for people in the US and low probability (near zero) anywhere in the world:
(number of people killed by terrorists in the last 50 years)
(world population)x(50 years)
Curiously I am much more likely to be killed by a car accident, so I would fear/worry much more about that if I were one to fear/worry.
Enjoy

we are limited in our ability to understand
by our ability to understand
RebelAmerican☆Zen☯Deist
... to learn ... to think ... to live ... to laugh ...
to share.


Join the effort to solve medical problems, AIDS/HIV, Cancer and more with Team EvC! (click)

This message is a reply to:
 Message 245 by Faith, posted 01-09-2015 3:46 PM Faith has not replied

  
Coyote
Member (Idle past 2133 days)
Posts: 6117
Joined: 01-12-2008


(1)
Message 247 of 432 (746793)
01-09-2015 8:01 PM


Boko Haram Just Pulled Off One Of The Deadliest Terrorist Attacks In History
The jihadist group Boko Haram has pulled off what is perhaps the deadliest attack of its ongoing, five-year-long insurgency in northern Nigeria.
Boko Haram, extremists opposed to Western-style education and secular governance in Nigeria, carried out a multiday attack in the northeast of Nigeria, focusing on the town of Baga. According to Musa Alhaji Bukar, a senior government official who spoke to the BBC, Baga, which once had a population of about 10,000 people, is now "virtually nonexistent."
The multiday rampage focused on Baga and the surrounding towns and villages. The militants razed an estimated 16 towns around Baga, according to the BBC.
These towns are just gone, burned down, Borno State Senator Ahmed Zanna told NBC News. The whole area is covered in bodies.
The rampage has led to the deaths of an estimated 2,000 Nigerian civilians, and has sent approximately 10,000 people fleeing into neighboring Chad, according to the Associated Press.
Read more: Boko Haram's Deadliest Terrorist Attack yet
[ps. Boko Haram aren't Amish]

Religious belief does not constitute scientific evidence, nor does it convey scientific knowledge.
Belief gets in the way of learning--Robert A. Heinlein
How can I possibly put a new idea into your heads, if I do not first remove your delusions?--Robert A. Heinlein
It's not what we don't know that hurts, it's what we know that ain't so--Will Rogers
If I am entitled to something, someone else is obliged to pay--Jerry Pournelle
If a religion's teachings are true, then it should have nothing to fear from science...--dwise1
"Multiculturalism" demands that the US be tolerant of everything except its own past, culture, traditions, and identity.

Replies to this message:
 Message 248 by Theodoric, posted 01-09-2015 8:12 PM Coyote has replied

  
Theodoric
Member
Posts: 9197
From: Northwest, WI, USA
Joined: 08-15-2005
Member Rating: 3.2


(2)
Message 248 of 432 (746796)
01-09-2015 8:12 PM
Reply to: Message 247 by Coyote
01-09-2015 8:01 PM


We know there are radical islamists. That isn't the topic. You are like a creationist. You think if you provide evidence of radical Islam you defeat the idea that there are moderate people in Islam.
I notice you cannot not argue against the evidence of moderates.

Facts don't lie or have an agenda. Facts are just facts
"God did it" is not an argument. It is an excuse for intellectual laziness.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 247 by Coyote, posted 01-09-2015 8:01 PM Coyote has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 249 by Coyote, posted 01-09-2015 9:17 PM Theodoric has replied

  
Coyote
Member (Idle past 2133 days)
Posts: 6117
Joined: 01-12-2008


(1)
Message 249 of 432 (746800)
01-09-2015 9:17 PM
Reply to: Message 248 by Theodoric
01-09-2015 8:12 PM


We know there are radical islamists. That isn't the topic. You are like a creationist. You think if you provide evidence of radical Islam you defeat the idea that there are moderate people in Islam.
I notice you cannot not argue against the evidence of moderates.
You keep posting on the moderates, I'll keep posting on the extremists.
When the extremists can dominate the moderates, they don't really count, do they?

Religious belief does not constitute scientific evidence, nor does it convey scientific knowledge.
Belief gets in the way of learning--Robert A. Heinlein
How can I possibly put a new idea into your heads, if I do not first remove your delusions?--Robert A. Heinlein
It's not what we don't know that hurts, it's what we know that ain't so--Will Rogers
If I am entitled to something, someone else is obliged to pay--Jerry Pournelle
If a religion's teachings are true, then it should have nothing to fear from science...--dwise1
"Multiculturalism" demands that the US be tolerant of everything except its own past, culture, traditions, and identity.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 248 by Theodoric, posted 01-09-2015 8:12 PM Theodoric has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 250 by Theodoric, posted 01-09-2015 9:32 PM Coyote has replied
 Message 255 by NoNukes, posted 01-09-2015 11:14 PM Coyote has not replied

  
Theodoric
Member
Posts: 9197
From: Northwest, WI, USA
Joined: 08-15-2005
Member Rating: 3.2


Message 250 of 432 (746802)
01-09-2015 9:32 PM
Reply to: Message 249 by Coyote
01-09-2015 9:17 PM


That would make you off topic wouldn't it

Facts don't lie or have an agenda. Facts are just facts
"God did it" is not an argument. It is an excuse for intellectual laziness.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 249 by Coyote, posted 01-09-2015 9:17 PM Coyote has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 251 by Coyote, posted 01-09-2015 9:46 PM Theodoric has not replied

  
Coyote
Member (Idle past 2133 days)
Posts: 6117
Joined: 01-12-2008


Message 251 of 432 (746803)
01-09-2015 9:46 PM
Reply to: Message 250 by Theodoric
01-09-2015 9:32 PM


That would make you off topic wouldn't it
You want me to start a separate thread for "extreme Islam?"
I could do that, and find plenty of examples to fill it.

Religious belief does not constitute scientific evidence, nor does it convey scientific knowledge.
Belief gets in the way of learning--Robert A. Heinlein
How can I possibly put a new idea into your heads, if I do not first remove your delusions?--Robert A. Heinlein
It's not what we don't know that hurts, it's what we know that ain't so--Will Rogers
If I am entitled to something, someone else is obliged to pay--Jerry Pournelle
If a religion's teachings are true, then it should have nothing to fear from science...--dwise1
"Multiculturalism" demands that the US be tolerant of everything except its own past, culture, traditions, and identity.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 250 by Theodoric, posted 01-09-2015 9:32 PM Theodoric has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 252 by jar, posted 01-09-2015 10:02 PM Coyote has replied

  
jar
Member (Idle past 421 days)
Posts: 34026
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


(1)
Message 252 of 432 (746804)
01-09-2015 10:02 PM
Reply to: Message 251 by Coyote
01-09-2015 9:46 PM


but even extreme Islam is not the threat equa Congress, the Executive and SCOTUS.
But even extreme Islam is not the threat to the US or US citizens that our Congress, Executive Branch and SCOTUS present and certainly no threat to the rest of the world compared to the threat from the US.
Shall I run the numbers for you again?

Anyone so limited that they can only spell a word one way is severely handicapped!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 251 by Coyote, posted 01-09-2015 9:46 PM Coyote has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 253 by Coyote, posted 01-09-2015 10:20 PM jar has replied

  
Coyote
Member (Idle past 2133 days)
Posts: 6117
Joined: 01-12-2008


(1)
Message 253 of 432 (746808)
01-09-2015 10:20 PM
Reply to: Message 252 by jar
01-09-2015 10:02 PM


Re: but even extreme Islam is not the threat equa Congress, the Executive and SCOTUS.
But even extreme Islam is not the threat to the US or US citizens that our Congress, Executive Branch and SCOTUS present and certainly no threat to the rest of the world compared to the threat from the US.
Shall I run the numbers for you again?
Run whatever you like. Its your dime.
But you have certainly expressed a very anti-American sentiment in this post.
Maybe you should go talk to the ISIS folks. Perhaps you would find a number of sentiments in common?
In the meantime, I'll take seriously any group that expresses a willingness to kill me and many of my countrymen if we don't kowtow to their extreme religious beliefs.

Religious belief does not constitute scientific evidence, nor does it convey scientific knowledge.
Belief gets in the way of learning--Robert A. Heinlein
How can I possibly put a new idea into your heads, if I do not first remove your delusions?--Robert A. Heinlein
It's not what we don't know that hurts, it's what we know that ain't so--Will Rogers
If I am entitled to something, someone else is obliged to pay--Jerry Pournelle
If a religion's teachings are true, then it should have nothing to fear from science...--dwise1
"Multiculturalism" demands that the US be tolerant of everything except its own past, culture, traditions, and identity.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 252 by jar, posted 01-09-2015 10:02 PM jar has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 254 by jar, posted 01-09-2015 10:34 PM Coyote has not replied

  
jar
Member (Idle past 421 days)
Posts: 34026
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


(2)
Message 254 of 432 (746810)
01-09-2015 10:34 PM
Reply to: Message 253 by Coyote
01-09-2015 10:20 PM


Re: but even extreme Islam is not the threat equa Congress, the Executive and SCOTUS.
I express no anti-American sentiment that I can see.
We, the US, have a long history of overreacting and oppressing any we see as even the slightest threat.
Is there any wonder that much of the world hates and fears the US?

Anyone so limited that they can only spell a word one way is severely handicapped!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 253 by Coyote, posted 01-09-2015 10:20 PM Coyote has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 256 by Faith, posted 01-10-2015 10:49 AM jar has replied

  
NoNukes
Inactive Member


Message 255 of 432 (746816)
01-09-2015 11:14 PM
Reply to: Message 249 by Coyote
01-09-2015 9:17 PM


You keep posting on the moderates, I'll keep posting on the extremists.
When the extremists can dominate the moderates, they don't really count, do they?
Then we'll count up your posts and whoever makes the most posts wins? Cool. It's about time we had a definitive result to one of these thread.

Je Suis Charlie
Under a government which imprisons any unjustly, the true place for a just man is also in prison. Thoreau: Civil Disobedience (1846)
If there is no struggle, there is no progress. Those who profess to favor freedom, and deprecate agitation, are men who want crops without plowing up the ground, they want rain without thunder and lightning. Frederick Douglass

This message is a reply to:
 Message 249 by Coyote, posted 01-09-2015 9:17 PM Coyote has not replied

  
Newer Topic | Older Topic
Jump to:


Copyright 2001-2023 by EvC Forum, All Rights Reserved

™ Version 4.2
Innovative software from Qwixotic © 2024