The Search for Moderate Islam

What they show is that the argument that ALL muslims are terrorists is a false statement, by comparison with how christian terrorists are regarded. It is the logical fallacy of part for the whole.An argument championed by Faux Noise Nutwerk and people that want a simple definition of the terrorism of fundamental muslims (or christians or jews etc).Here is a french program mocking the FNN "expert" dispelling false information:Fox Newsand then there are the christians in africa slaughtering muslims in much the same way ISIS is killing christians ...

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Tens of thousands of Muslims flee Christian militias in Central African Republic

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BANGUI, Central African Republic — Tens of thousands of Muslims are fleeing to neighboring countries by plane and truck as Christian militias stage brutal attacks, shattering the social fabric of this war-ravaged nation.

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In towns and villages as well as here in the capital, Christian vigilantes wielding machetes have killed scores of Muslims, who are a minority here, and burned and looted their houses and mosques in recent days, according to witnesses, aid agencies and peacekeepers. Tens of thousands of Muslims have fled their homes.

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The point was to show Faith that there is no simplistic definition that can be applied to muslims in general without that definition applying to Christian and other terrorists, and without applying to drone strikes on civilians.If you are looking for moderates, then you need to remove extremists from the discussion and see what you have left.The word "terrorism" means "violence we don't like" in practice ... if you need a simple definition.The problems in the middle east are more complex than black and white labels EnjoyEdited by RAZD, : end

So are you saying only muslims are terrorists? Seems like this:

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Right-Wing Media's Worst Islamophobic Rhetoric

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Fox's Andrea Tantaros Suggested All Muslims Are Like ISIS, Said Problem Should Be Solved "With A Bullet To The Head." On the August 20 edition of Fox News' Outnumbered, co-host Andrea Tantaros suggested that all Muslims were like the terrorist group the Islamic State, and said the problem can only be solved "with a bullet to the head":

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Fox's Eric Bolling: "Every Terrorist On American Soil Has Been A Muslim." On the June 6, 2012, edition of Fox News' The Five, host Eric Bolling advocated for police surveillance of Muslims and falsely claimed that "every terrorist on American soil has been a Muslim." [Fox News, The Five, 6/6/12]

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Fox's Brian Kilmeade: "Not Every Muslim Is An Extremist, A Terrorist, But Every Terrorist Is A Muslim." On the October 15, 2010, edition of Fox News Radio's Kilmeade & Friends, host Kilmeade defended his Fox colleague Bill O'Reilly's statement that "all terrorists are Muslim," asserting that "Not every Muslim is an extremist, a terrorist, but every terrorist is a Muslim. You can't avoid that fact." [Fox News Radio, Kilmeade & Friends, 10/15/10]

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More in article.We know that these people are not moderate christians, but fanatics promoting war on ALL muslims because of the action of a few.Note that Eric Bolling is demonstrably wrong as seen in some of my other posts.This is hyping fear rather than rational response to the violence.Looking at muslim rhetoric that is broadcast will not show you moderate muslims, but samplings similar to the Faux intolerant pro war machine.The media is at fault for predominantly reporting on fanatic muslims out of proportion to their representation in the populations.Enjoy

What about looking at individuals that have moved from radical to moderate?

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How Orwell's 'Animal Farm' Led A Radical Muslim To Moderation

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When Maajid Nawaz was growing up in Essex, England, in the 1990s, the son of Pakistani parents, he first found his voice of rebellion through American hip-hop.

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"It gave me a feeling that my identity could matter and did matter growing up as a British Pakistani who was facing racism from whiter society," Nawaz tells Fresh Air's Terry Gross, "but also confusion about where my family was from and not really fitting into either culture."

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At age 16, Nawaz was transformed from a disaffected British teenager to an Islamist recruiter when he joined the Islamist group Hizb ut-Tahrir. Nawaz continued his college studies and spent a year abroad in Egypt, where he continued his recruiting. As a result, he was imprisoned for four years, starting in 2002.

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It was while in prison, surrounded by several prominent jihadist leaders, that Nawaz realized he wanted to take a different path. He was reading George Orwell's Animal Farm and came to a new understanding of "what happens when somebody tries to create a utopia."

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"I began to join the dots and think, 'My God, if these guys that I'm here with ever came to power, they would be the Islamist equivalent of Animal Farm," Nawaz says.

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When Islamic Radicals Turn Moderate

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After last week's Paris shootings that targeted an irreverent political magazine and Jews in a kosher grocery store, there's been a flood of stories about the dangers of Muslim radicalization and how it happens.

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What about people who go the other way, from extremist to moderate? These people exist; the U-turn happens.

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In the 1990s, he went to jail in Saudi Arabia for his part in firebombing one of the most popular video shops in the capital, Riyadh, and a women's center in his home town of Buraidah.

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Changing His Views

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His transformation from jihadi to moderate came after he got out of jail and went through what he calls a long and painful spiritual journey. He began to question religious teachings, "the rote manner in which we Muslims are fed our religion."

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Now, he's a harsh critic of any interpretation of Islam, including Saudi Arabia's ultraconservative creed. He calls for an Islamic reformation, especially in Saudi Arabia, where he's been denounced as an infidel and he gets regular death threats by email and on his phone.

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"Muslims are too rigid in our adherence to old, literal interpretations of the Koran," he wrote in a 2007 article for The Washington Post. "It's time for many verses especially those having to do with relations between Islam and other religions to be reinterpreted in favor of a more modern Islam."

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So there are two that not only are moderate but who have rejected previous radical beliefs and that campaign against the radical interpretations.Enjoy

Good. Lay out their beliefs. Show us that they're moderate. Tell us to what moderate branch of Islam they belong.

What about looking at people who were born into that culture and who have managed to escape:One example is Ayaan Hirsi Ali. She speaks out on Islam's treatment of women.Of course she is reviled by much of Islam and by American leftists.Such is the typical treatment of those who dare speak out against Islam's abuses.Seems like there are too many radicals and their sycophants and too few moderates.

Suppose Islam Had a Holocaust and No One Noticed Suppose Islam Had a Holocaust and No One Noticed - Daniel Greenfield / Sultan Knish articles

While Western newspapers were debating whether or not to reprint the Mohammed cartoons, in Nigeria as many as 2,000 people were massacred by the Islamic State in Nigeria, also known as Boko Haram, in what is being called the deadliest attack by the Muslim group to date.

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Survivors described the Islamic State setting up efficient killing teams and massacring everyone
while shouting Allahu Akbar. "For five kilometers (three miles), I kept stepping on dead bodies until I reached Malam Karanti village, which was also deserted and burnt," one survivor said.

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There’s a word for that. It’s genocide.

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The Islamic State in Nigeria had reportedly managed to kill 2,000 people last year. This year they did it in one week. But we don’t pay much attention to what happens in Nigeria unless there’s a hashtag. No one has yet thought up a clever hashtag for the murder of 2,000 people. #Bringbackourdead doesn’t really work.

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The Islamic State’s next target is Maiduguri, the largest city in Borno with a population of over a million. Known as the Home of Peace, if Maiduguri falls, the death toll will be horrific.

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More

We get it, Coyote. Islamic State is not a moderate group.

This thread is about the search for moderate Islam, not radical Islam. As we have been proscribed from mentioning other examples of radicals from other religions, I think the continuing mentioning of radical Islamists should also be banned. You continue to derail the topic. I am sure Jon loves your continuing derailment, but derailment it is.

About derailing...After jar's excellent summary, there does not seem to be much of a topic for most of us.

Found hereI think that jar's content was, at least vaguely, in the backs of most of our minds. But it did need to be put into print.Moderates (in any area) have the problem of falling into being "the silent majority", as opposed to the "loud minority". And, unfortunately, extremist Islam does seem to be a substantial minority, and they are extremely loud.It's not so much "The Search for Moderate Islam" as it is "the search to hear from moderate Islam". Now, some of moderate Islam is not being silent, which isn't the same as being heard. And I think some of the public support for extremist Islam is from Islamists who (quite possibly rightfully) fear not publicly supporting it (moderates acting as extremists).What we need are Islamic leaders of real power and/or authority (are their such moderates?) taking prominent stands against extremist Islam. A 100,000 Muslim march against Islamic extremism would also be nice.Of course, there are other areas where we also need moderates of real power and/or authority to take prominent stands against their own organizations extremists.All over the place we have extremist tails wagging the moderate dog.Moose

But it's not. If you have been following the Multiculturalism thread, you will see that 30% of British Muslims want to turn their country into Saudi Arabia (Message 1127)a country not renowned for its human rights. Then there are the 100% of British Muslims who disprove of homosexuality (Message 1124).So where is moderate Islam?Simply asserting that it exists over and over again doesn't make it so.

Disclaimer - Certainly not claiming to be any sort of expert, but these are my impressions.Islam is a conservative religion. I think that so called "liberal Islam" is still pretty conservative.In order of decreasing conservatism/extremism:1) Islamic State - Violent extremists.2) Taliban? - Maybe not as bad as IS?3) Saudi Arabia - Very conservative with dubious human rights record.4) Other - The moderates.Islam does not have the radical extremist/conservative/moderate/liberal spectrum Christianity has, and fortunately the radical extremist Christian movement is pretty small and under control. So I would divide Islam into radical, conservative, and moderate (liberal for them).I haven't been following the Multiculturalism thread much. As I see it, they can want to turn Britain into anything they want, as long as they keep their actions within the law. Britain is not going to become a Saudi Arabia. Again, keep it legal and they can disapprove of anything they want. See Jar message 315.Moose

I must be speaking a different language. I keep asking for moderate Islam and I keep getting nothing. Here again is the same nothing. A detailed list of extremist Islam and a vague assertion that there is some 'other' group comprised of moderates.Am I the only one that sees this isn't evidence of a moderate Islam anymore than saying "Martians are those who don't live on Mercury, Venus, Earth, Jupiter, Saturn, Uranus, Neptune" is evidence of Martians? This thread isn't about what is legal or not; it is about belief systems and what people believe and whether those belief systems and the people who believe them are moderate or not. I read it. It isn't evidence of anything other than people's ability to play word games. It's a nice start to maybe define what moderate Islam would look like. But it isn't evidence that such a moderate Islam actually exists. It's just saying that "Martians are those who live on Mars". Maybe the ridiculousness of it will be more clear if I rewrite jar's post and change out the terms:These are good, if narrow, ways of defining what a Martian is, but they offer no evidence as to the existence of Martians or even what they might look like, think, or believe.It's such directionless and vague semantic-game babble as to be utterly useless as evidence of anything.And repeating it and relinking to it doesn't make it any better.Edited by Jon, : No reason given.

Sort of interesting article in the New Statesman The Myth of the Moderate Muslim

Dallas Morning News Editorial: Anti-Muslim Yokels Brought Shame on Texas

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It was Texas Muslim Capitol Day in Austin, an annual event for visitors of that faith to visit the seat of state government, meet lawmakers and learn about the political process.

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What they learned instead was the ugliness that people are capable of.

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The Muslim visitors’ right to peaceful assembly - one of five rights enshrined in the First Amendment was violated by a small group of morons. Hair flying, one banshee seized the microphone and shrieked nonsense revealing irrational fears more than anything.

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Her diatribe created a Lone Star YouTube moment that affirms the worst stereotypes about Texas that we’re a bunch of slack-eye cousins to the backwater creatures of Deliverance.

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Tell your in-laws in New York that we’re not all hateful, hayseed, redneck, ignorant Bubbas. Yes, we do have hateful, hayseed, redneck ignorant Bubbas in Texas. YouTube doesn’t lie.

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More including links at source cited.Moose