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Author | Topic: Multiculturalism | |||||||||||||||||||
Tangle Member Posts: 9512 From: UK Joined: Member Rating: 4.8 |
Ring writes: Do you think a law could survive an appeal if it allowed male circumcision but not one tiny nick on the female genitals? Yes. I realise you're just in this thread to be an arsehole, but at least pretend to read the stuff you ask for and are then given. It's called female genital mutilation for a reason.
(1)A person is guilty of an offence if he excises, infibulates or otherwise mutilates the whole or any part of a girl’s labia majora, labia minora or clitoris. 6Definitions (1) Girl includes woman.
Life, don't talk to me about life - Marvin the Paranoid Android "Science adjusts it's views based on what's observed.Faith is the denial of observation so that Belief can be preserved." - Tim Minchin, in his beat poem, Storm.
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ringo Member (Idle past 440 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: |
Tangle writes:
How? ringo writes:
Yes. Do you think a law could survive an appeal if it allowed male circumcision but not one tiny nick on the female genitals? Have you thought about this at all? There has to be a point at which a blade in the vicinity of the female genitals is less "mutilation" than male circumcision. If the law is going to treat males and females equally, you can't prohibit something in females while allowing something more severe in males. Please try to actually discuss the topic instead of providing nothing but, "Nuh uh."
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Tangle Member Posts: 9512 From: UK Joined: Member Rating: 4.8 |
Ringo writes: Have you thought about this at all? There has to be a point at which a blade in the vicinity of the female genitals is less "mutilation" than male circumcision. Irrelevant, the law applies to females only.
If the law is going to treat males and females equally, you can't prohibit something in females while allowing something more severe in males. The law does not treat male and female genitalia equally because male and female genitalia are not the same. The law can and does discriminate in this matter. I have also answered your tediously repeated question about whether it *should*. My opinion is that male circumcision, if it was an offence, would be a much lessor one because the harm is trivial in comparison, does not create a permanent disability and the intent is not malign. I'm also not totally convinced male circumcision would be a legal act if introduced today, but we live with these minor inconsistencies.Life, don't talk to me about life - Marvin the Paranoid Android "Science adjusts it's views based on what's observed.Faith is the denial of observation so that Belief can be preserved." - Tim Minchin, in his beat poem, Storm.
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ringo Member (Idle past 440 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: |
Tangle writes:
That's exactly what makes it relevant. How can a sexist law stand?
Irrelevant, the law applies to females only. Tangle writes:
Irrelevant. Many things about males and females are different but that doesn't excuse different treatment. By your logic, we might as well use the fact that men's and women's brains are 'wired' differently to bar women from jobs that (supposedly) require one type of wiring. That kind of thinking is what we've been trying to get away from for more than a century.
The law does not treat male and female genitalia equally because male and female genitalia are not the same. Tangle writes:
But you keep equivocating the worst form of FGM with ANY alteration of the female genitals. I keep asking you why one tiny nick would be "more harmful" than male circumcision and you either can't or won't give a cogent answer.
My opinion is that male circumcision, if it was an offence, would be a much lessor one because the harm is trivial in comparison, does not create a permanent disability and the intent is not malign.
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AZPaul3 Member Posts: 8562 From: Phoenix Joined: Member Rating: 4.8 |
Seriously, if you have such a strong case, why do you have to resort to such low-down tactics to make it? What low-down tactics? Calling torture, torture and calling butchery, butchery? It's quite obvious to any caring human being. Have you seen the videos, ringo?
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ringo Member (Idle past 440 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: |
AZPaul3 writes:
Words have meanings. You're twisting the meaning of "butchery" and "torture" for emotive value. I explained what they mean. Why do you persist in using your own made-up definitions?
Calling torture, torture and calling butchery, butchery?
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Tangle Member Posts: 9512 From: UK Joined: Member Rating: 4.8 |
Ringo writes: That's exactly what makes it relevant. How can a sexist law stand? For the simple reason that it is an anti-sexist law. It is designed to prevent harm to women. FGM discriminates against women in the worst possible way.
That kind of thinking is what we've been trying to get away from for more than a century. Correct and that is exactly what this law does - it protects women from being subjugated and harmed by men. That's why the first world is universally supportive of it, including every feminist anti-discriminatory campaign organisation you can name. (It's also why you find yourself on your own on the wrong side of the argument.) I now await your anti-discriminatory campaign to prevent the circumcision of young boys. Which I would consider supporting.Life, don't talk to me about life - Marvin the Paranoid Android "Science adjusts it's views based on what's observed.Faith is the denial of observation so that Belief can be preserved." - Tim Minchin, in his beat poem, Storm.
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NoNukes Inactive Member |
Let's see.... If Tangle said that pigs can not fly, I would concur. In that event, the aeronautical characteristics of pigs would be irrelevant, wouldn't they? Your analogy is idiotic. But then you are pretty good at making broken analogies aren't you? When we say that children cannot consent, we mean that at their current level of maturity, they cannot make an informed decision. But we expect them to grow out of that situation, which leaves open the possibility that they can express a relative consent if their parents do not operate to deprive them of such. Since it is perfectly possible to hold off on FGM until children reach an age of consent, then their consent is not irrelevant. On the other hand, pigs won't grow up to fly. I do not believe that you failed to understand the difference. At this point you appear to be deliberately dissembling. Your ridiculous line of argument would support doing things to a child that no one could doubt were abusive. Sorry but there is still no right to march your children into an oven. Under a government which imprisons any unjustly, the true place for a just man is also in prison. Thoreau: Civil Disobedience (1846) I have never met a man so ignorant that I couldn't learn something from him. Galileo Galilei If there is no struggle, there is no progress. Those who profess to favor freedom, and deprecate agitation, are men who want crops without plowing up the ground, they want rain without thunder and lightning. Frederick Douglass
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NoNukes Inactive Member |
Sure there is, if the powers that be say there is. Don't confuse "rights" with what "is" right. Which has not happened. There is no right to murder your child. Edited by NoNukes, : No reason given.Under a government which imprisons any unjustly, the true place for a just man is also in prison. Thoreau: Civil Disobedience (1846) I have never met a man so ignorant that I couldn't learn something from him. Galileo Galilei If there is no struggle, there is no progress. Those who profess to favor freedom, and deprecate agitation, are men who want crops without plowing up the ground, they want rain without thunder and lightning. Frederick Douglass
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AZPaul3 Member Posts: 8562 From: Phoenix Joined: Member Rating: 4.8 |
You're twisting the meaning of "butchery" and "torture" for emotive value. Have you seen the videos, ringo?
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ringo Member (Idle past 440 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: |
Tangle writes:
Many of the women disagree with you.
FGM discriminates against women in the worst possible way. Tangle writes:
If anybody else wants to pile on, they're certainly welcome to. (It's also why you find yourself on your own on the wrong side of the argument.) I'll say again... I do not support FGM. But since this is a debate forum, every position needs to have a counter-position. My opposition OUGHT to strengthen your argument but all you seem to have is evasion.
Tangle writes:
I suspect you would, which is why I keep asking where you draw the line. I'm looking in the opposite direction, removing restrictions rather than adding more. If you're willing to eradicate male circumcision, what next?
I now await your anti-discriminatory campaign to prevent the circumcision of young boys. Which I would consider supporting.
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ringo Member (Idle past 440 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: |
NoNukes writes:
According to your cronies, I'm also stupid and a terrible person.
Your analogy is idiotic. NoNukes writes:
Well, you're bad at understanding analogies, aren't you, Mr. Literal?
But then you are pretty good at making broken analogies aren't you? NoNukes writes:
Of course. The same applies to ANY situation in which a parent makes a decision for a child. And in the case of FGM, many of the children do grow up to support it.
When we say that children cannot consent, we mean that at their current level of maturity, they cannot make an informed decision. But we expect them to grow out of that situation, which leaves open the possibility that they can express a relative consent if their parents do not operate to deprive them of such. NoNukes writes:
That's where you and the rest of the hysteria-mongers in this thread go wrong. You don't get to force your idea of "abuse" on everybody. If they don't think it's abuse, it ain't.
Your ridiculous line of argument would support doing things to a child that no one could doubt were abusive.
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ringo Member (Idle past 440 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: |
NoNukes writes:
There is if the powers that be grant you that right. It may not "be" right to kill your child but a government can certainly give you the right to do it.
ringo writes:
Which has not happened. Don't confuse "rights" with what "is" right. There is no right to murder your child.
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ringo Member (Idle past 440 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: |
AZPaul3 writes:
Have you ever heard of childbirth? I'm told it can be quite painful. ringo writes:
Have you seen the videos, ringo? You're twisting the meaning of "butchery" and "torture" for emotive value. Pain does not equate to either "torture" or "butchery". Please stop equivocating. It's dishonest.
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Tangle Member Posts: 9512 From: UK Joined: Member Rating: 4.8 |
ringo writes:
Many of the women disagree with you. So what - paedophiles also disagree that they harm children; oddly enough society insists they stop anyway.
I'll say again... I do not support FGM. Then now would be a good time to stop actually supporting it.
I suspect you would, which is why I keep asking where you draw the line. And I keep saying I'm not interested in drawing your damn silly line. My line is to protect the children from those that would do them harm with FGM in my country. I'm all out of troll food for a while.Life, don't talk to me about life - Marvin the Paranoid Android "Science adjusts it's views based on what's observed.Faith is the denial of observation so that Belief can be preserved." - Tim Minchin, in his beat poem, Storm.
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