Register | Sign In


Understanding through Discussion


EvC Forum active members: 65 (9162 total)
2 online now:
Newest Member: popoi
Post Volume: Total: 915,806 Year: 3,063/9,624 Month: 908/1,588 Week: 91/223 Day: 2/17 Hour: 0/0


Thread  Details

Email This Thread
Newer Topic | Older Topic
  
Author Topic:   Multiculturalism
AZPaul3
Member
Posts: 8513
From: Phoenix
Joined: 11-06-2006
Member Rating: 5.2


Message 961 of 1234 (744029)
12-07-2014 3:02 PM
Reply to: Message 959 by ringo
12-07-2014 1:25 PM


Re: The Line
Have you ever heard of childbirth?
Still blowing smoke, ringo. Childbirth is not the subject.
Trying to deflect away from your indefensible position making excuses for torture, butchery, mutilation of young girls.
It's dishonest.
Pot, meet Kettle.
Have you seen the videos, ringo?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 959 by ringo, posted 12-07-2014 1:25 PM ringo has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 964 by ringo, posted 12-08-2014 10:58 AM AZPaul3 has replied

  
Coyote
Member (Idle past 2105 days)
Posts: 6117
Joined: 01-12-2008


Message 962 of 1234 (744056)
12-07-2014 7:28 PM


Stirring the pot
This thread needs a new start; it has gone completely stale:
When Liberal Preferences Meet Islamic Principles
By Selwyn Duke
There was a recent scandal that, as much as anything else, illustrates the intellectual emptiness and moral ennui of the modern liberal man. It occurred in Britain but reflects a wider phenomenon; what can be said about it can be said about happenings in Sweden, France, Holland, Canada or Belgium or the United States.
It was discovered recently that Muslims in seven London schools were indoctrinating children with Islamic propaganda, ignoring Western culture and refusing to inculcate the British values of the moment. The situation was such that all of one school’s library books were in Arabic and many students couldn’t tell investigators whether they should follow British or Sharia law or which was more important. And one of these schools, mind you, was a state-run Church of England institution that happens to now be upwards of 80 percent Muslim.
When hearing about the subordination of British law to Sharia and other such Islamic cultural inroads, one of my instincts is to say So what? Cry me a river of multiculturalist tears.
Multiculturalism, we’ve been told, dictates that all cultures are morally equal and deserve the same respect and footing within Western civilization. Never mind that the ideology is self-defeating. After all, since different cultures espouse different values, not all cultures can be morally equal unless all values are so. This makes multiculturalism not only a corollary of, but also a Trojan horse for, moral relativism. And consider the implications. If all values are equal, how can showing cultures equal respect be superior to cultural chauvinism? And what if another culture does prescribe the latter? It then follows that the people within it cannot both have their own culture, unaltered, and accept multiculturalism.
More...
Read more: http://www.americanthinker.com/...nciples.html#ixzz3LGGoCD7w

Religious belief does not constitute scientific evidence, nor does it convey scientific knowledge.
Belief gets in the way of learning--Robert A. Heinlein
How can I possibly put a new idea into your heads, if I do not first remove your delusions?--Robert A. Heinlein
It's not what we don't know that hurts, it's what we know that ain't so--Will Rogers
If I am entitled to something, someone else is obliged to pay--Jerry Pournelle
If a religion's teachings are true, then it should have nothing to fear from science...--dwise1
"Multiculturalism" demands that the US be tolerant of everything except its own past, culture, traditions, and identity.

Replies to this message:
 Message 974 by Dr Adequate, posted 01-09-2015 4:15 PM Coyote has not replied

  
ringo
Member (Idle past 411 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


Message 963 of 1234 (744120)
12-08-2014 10:54 AM
Reply to: Message 960 by Tangle
12-07-2014 2:59 PM


Re: The Line
Tangle writes:
paedophiles also disagree that they harm children;
When you can find entire nations or cultures of pedophilia victims who grow up wanting their children to be victims of pedophilia, you'll have a valid point.
Tangle writes:
ringo writes:
I do not support FGM.
Then now would be a good time to stop actually supporting it.
Go ahead and quote anything I said that supports FGM. I don't think you can.
But before you waste your time looking, let me explain one more time: I do not approve of abortion. I do support the right of women to make up their own minds. I do not pretend that women who want abortions have been coerced by men into thinking they want abortions. I respect them enough to take them at their word.
Tangle writes:
My line is to protect the children from those that would do them harm with FGM in my country.
And yet you refuse to specify where the line is that separates what does "harm" and what does not. As long as you have an arbitrary definition of "harm", you can use it to oppress anybody you don't like. In this particular case it happens to be African Muslim women - but if there is no line to cross, who's next?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 960 by Tangle, posted 12-07-2014 2:59 PM Tangle has seen this message but not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 966 by kjsimons, posted 12-08-2014 9:02 PM ringo has replied

  
ringo
Member (Idle past 411 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


Message 964 of 1234 (744121)
12-08-2014 10:58 AM
Reply to: Message 961 by AZPaul3
12-07-2014 3:02 PM


Re: The Line
AZPaul3 writes:
Trying to deflect away from your indefensible position making excuses for torture, butchery, mutilation of young girls.
Making up your own definitions for "torture" and "butchery" does not help your case.
AZPaul3 writes:
ringo writes:
It's dishonest.
Pot, meet Kettle.
If you can show anywhere where I've been dishonest, please do.
AZPaul3 writes:
Have you seen the videos, ringo?
Watching every video on YouTube isn't going to change the definitions of the words. Stop equivocating.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 961 by AZPaul3, posted 12-07-2014 3:02 PM AZPaul3 has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 965 by AZPaul3, posted 12-08-2014 8:56 PM ringo has replied

  
AZPaul3
Member
Posts: 8513
From: Phoenix
Joined: 11-06-2006
Member Rating: 5.2


(2)
Message 965 of 1234 (744196)
12-08-2014 8:56 PM
Reply to: Message 964 by ringo
12-08-2014 10:58 AM


Re: The Line
Making up your own definitions for "torture" and "butchery" does not help your case.
...
Watching every video on YouTube isn't going to change the definitions of the words. Stop equivocating.
FGM is misogynist, torture and butchery committed on children. FGM is a brutal cultural practice that needs to be eliminated from everywhere around the globe.
A free democratic multicultural society is not required to condone, accept or allow cultural practices that violate the norms or laws of the greater society. Immigrants into such a society may be allowed, may be encouraged, to add their art, their dress, their holidays both religious and secular, etc., to the culture of their adopted country, but must be required to abandon, by force of law if necessary, those practices that violate the norms of the adopted society.
FGM, honor killings and severing hands as penalty for theft, are three such practices that need to be actively and forcefully eliminated from immigrant community culture.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 964 by ringo, posted 12-08-2014 10:58 AM ringo has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 967 by ringo, posted 12-09-2014 11:01 AM AZPaul3 has seen this message but not replied

  
kjsimons
Member
Posts: 821
From: Orlando,FL
Joined: 06-17-2003
Member Rating: 6.7


Message 966 of 1234 (744198)
12-08-2014 9:02 PM
Reply to: Message 963 by ringo
12-08-2014 10:54 AM


Re: The Line
Ringo writes:
When you can find entire nations or cultures of pedophilia victims who grow up wanting their children to be victims of pedophilia, you'll have a valid point.
Would a tribe be enough?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 963 by ringo, posted 12-08-2014 10:54 AM ringo has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 968 by ringo, posted 12-09-2014 11:11 AM kjsimons has replied

  
ringo
Member (Idle past 411 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


Message 967 of 1234 (744247)
12-09-2014 11:01 AM
Reply to: Message 965 by AZPaul3
12-08-2014 8:56 PM


Re: The Line
AZPaul3 writes:
FGM is misogynist, torture and butchery committed on children.
Learn what "torture" and "butchery" mean.
AzPaul3 writes:
FGM is a brutal cultural practice...
Agreed.
AZPaul3 writes:
... that needs to be eliminated from everywhere around the globe.
Brutal cultural practices don't "need" to be eliminated. take hockey, for example. It arguably causes injuries as painful and permanent as FGM. I would like to see the brutality in hockey diminished but not by eliminating hockey.
AzPaul3 writes:
A free democratic multicultural society is not required to condone, accept or allow cultural practices that violate the norms or laws of the greater society.
"Required", no. But we ought to examine our own values before we slap down every cultural practice we don't like.
Here in Canada we had a bad experience with the residential schools which were established with the intent of eradicating the aboriginal cultures - i.e. "civilizing" the aboriginal people. The eradication process turned out to cause much, much more damage than the cultural practices that we were trying to eliminate.
I suggest that we don't make the same mistake again.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 965 by AZPaul3, posted 12-08-2014 8:56 PM AZPaul3 has seen this message but not replied

  
ringo
Member (Idle past 411 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


Message 968 of 1234 (744250)
12-09-2014 11:11 AM
Reply to: Message 966 by kjsimons
12-08-2014 9:02 PM


Re: The Line
kjsimons writes:
ringo writes:
When you can find entire nations or cultures of pedophilia victims who grow up wanting their children to be victims of pedophilia, you'll have a valid point.
Would a tribe be enough?
From what the Wiki article says, I wouldn't call what the Etoro tribe does "abuse". Is there any evidence of "harm" caused?
Many of us find consensual homosexual practices icky, and we used to say it was "wrong" but we have come to realize that it is just different. Our attitudes toward the practices of the Etoro tribe are similar.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 966 by kjsimons, posted 12-08-2014 9:02 PM kjsimons has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 969 by kjsimons, posted 12-09-2014 12:58 PM ringo has replied

  
kjsimons
Member
Posts: 821
From: Orlando,FL
Joined: 06-17-2003
Member Rating: 6.7


Message 969 of 1234 (744265)
12-09-2014 12:58 PM
Reply to: Message 968 by ringo
12-09-2014 11:11 AM


Re: The Line
I should have been more specific. It wasn't the homo-sexual part of this practice but the young age at which these boys are encouraged to start this behavior.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 968 by ringo, posted 12-09-2014 11:11 AM ringo has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 970 by ringo, posted 12-10-2014 10:58 AM kjsimons has not replied

  
ringo
Member (Idle past 411 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


Message 970 of 1234 (744370)
12-10-2014 10:58 AM
Reply to: Message 969 by kjsimons
12-09-2014 12:58 PM


Re: The Line
kjsimons writes:
It wasn't the homo-sexual part of this practice but the young age at which these boys are encouraged to start this behavior.
I knew what you meant. I don't see how age makes any difference. Encouraging somebody to do something isn't necessarily "abuse".

This message is a reply to:
 Message 969 by kjsimons, posted 12-09-2014 12:58 PM kjsimons has not replied

  
Jon
Inactive Member


(2)
Message 971 of 1234 (746755)
01-09-2015 1:45 PM


The Dangers of Multiculturalism
What happens when we regard all beliefs and cultures as equal?
quote:
Niall Ferguson in Civilization: The West and the Rest (2011):
Empire has become a dirty word, despite the benefits conferred on the rest of the world by the European imperialists. All we risk being left with are a vacuous consumer society and a culture of relativism — a culture that says any theory or opinion, no matter how outlandish, is just as good as whatever it was we used to believe in.
. . .
Worse, this spiritual vacuum leaves West European societies vulnerable to the sinister ambitions of a minority of people who do have religious faith — as well as the political ambition to expand the power and influence of that faith in their adopted countries.
. . .
The separation of church and state, the scientific method, the rule of law, and the very idea of a free society — including relatively recent Western principles like the equality of the sexes and the legality of homosexual acts — all these things are openly repudiated by the Islamists.
Estimates of the Muslim population of West European countries vary widely. According to one, the total population has risen from around 10 million in 1990 to 17 million in 2010. As a share of national populations, Muslim communities range in size from as much as 9.8 per cent in France to as little as 0.2 per cent in Portugal. Such figures seem to belie the warnings of some scholars of a future 'Eurabia' — a continent Islamicized by the end of the twenty-first century. However, if the Muslim population of the UK were to continue growing at an annual rate of 6.7 per cent (as it did between 2004 and 2008), its share of the total UK population would rise from just under 4 per cent in 2008 to 8 per cent in 2020, to 15 per cent in 2030 and to 28 per cent in 2040, finally passing 50 per cent in 2050.
Mass immigration is not necessarily the solvent of a civilization, if the migrants embrace, and are encouraged to embrace, the values of the civilization to which they are moving. But in cases where immigrant communities are not successfully assimilated and then become prey to radical ideologues, the consequences can be profoundly destabilizing. The crucial thing is not sheer numbers so much as the extent to which some Muslim communities have been penetrated by Islamist organizations like the Arab Muslim Brotherhood, the Pakistani Jama'at-i Islami, the Saudi-financed Muslim World League and the World Assembly of Muslim Youth. In Britain, to take perhaps the most troubling example, there is an active Muslim Brotherhood offshoot called the Muslim Association of Britain, two Jama'at-i Islami spin-offs, the Islamic Society of Britain and its youth wing, Young Muslims UK, as well as an organization called Hizb ut-Tahrir ('Party of Liberation'). Hizb ut-Tahrir openly proclaims its intention to make 'Britain . . . an Islamit state by the year 2020!' (pp. 288—290)
As the number of people who wish to practice FGMjust as an examplein the West increases, what will be the result? It is crucial that the prosperous nations of the earth defend the cultural practices that have made their nations prosperous and not relax their enforcement in the name of Multiculturalism and cultural relativism.
The fate of the world depends on it.
Edited by Jon, : No reason given.

Love your enemies!

Replies to this message:
 Message 972 by Theodoric, posted 01-09-2015 3:19 PM Jon has replied

  
Theodoric
Member
Posts: 9076
From: Northwest, WI, USA
Joined: 08-15-2005
Member Rating: 3.7


Message 972 of 1234 (746764)
01-09-2015 3:19 PM
Reply to: Message 971 by Jon
01-09-2015 1:45 PM


Re: The Dangers of Multiculturalism
Niall Ferguson? Are you freaking serious. He is an intellectual fraud and an overt racist.
Maybe you should research people before you quote them.
Niall Ferguson trolls everyone in Newsweek | Salon.com
Just google Niall Ferguson and you will find plenty examples.

Facts don't lie or have an agenda. Facts are just facts
"God did it" is not an argument. It is an excuse for intellectual laziness.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 971 by Jon, posted 01-09-2015 1:45 PM Jon has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 973 by Jon, posted 01-09-2015 4:14 PM Theodoric has replied

  
Jon
Inactive Member


Message 973 of 1234 (746772)
01-09-2015 4:14 PM
Reply to: Message 972 by Theodoric
01-09-2015 3:19 PM


Re: The Dangers of Multiculturalism
Maybe you should research people before you quote them.
I did. His character is quite questionable.
What does that have to do with the information?

Love your enemies!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 972 by Theodoric, posted 01-09-2015 3:19 PM Theodoric has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 975 by Dr Adequate, posted 01-09-2015 4:30 PM Jon has not replied
 Message 976 by Theodoric, posted 01-09-2015 4:52 PM Jon has replied
 Message 977 by Faith, posted 01-09-2015 5:21 PM Jon has not replied

  
Dr Adequate
Member (Idle past 284 days)
Posts: 16113
Joined: 07-20-2006


(1)
Message 974 of 1234 (746773)
01-09-2015 4:15 PM
Reply to: Message 962 by Coyote
12-07-2014 7:28 PM


Re: Stirring the pot
There was a recent scandal that, as much as anything else, illustrates the intellectual emptiness and moral ennui of the modern liberal man [...] It was discovered recently that Muslims in seven London schools were indoctrinating children with Islamic propaganda, ignoring Western culture and refusing to inculcate the British values of the moment. The situation was such that all of one school’s library books were in Arabic and many students couldn’t tell investigators whether they should follow British or Sharia law or which was more important. And one of these schools, mind you, was a state-run Church of England institution that happens to now be upwards of 80 percent Muslim.
Um ... but it would say more about the "intellectual emptiness and moral ennui of the modern liberal man" if this hadn't happened under a conservative government, if charter schools weren't a pet idea of conservatives, and if "the modern liberal man" hadn't said FUCK THAT SHIT when they found out about it. Where this is coming from is a report which said those schools were awful, where the schools were ordered to change or face closure, and everyone, especially "the modern liberal man", agreed wholeheartedly. Do you really suppose that there'd even be such a thing as a "state-run Church of England school" if the left had their way? In your experience, are state subsidies for a state religion the sort of thing that lefties are particularly keen on?
Edited by Dr Adequate, : No reason given.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 962 by Coyote, posted 12-07-2014 7:28 PM Coyote has not replied

  
Dr Adequate
Member (Idle past 284 days)
Posts: 16113
Joined: 07-20-2006


(1)
Message 975 of 1234 (746774)
01-09-2015 4:30 PM
Reply to: Message 973 by Jon
01-09-2015 4:14 PM


Re: The Dangers of Multiculturalism
What does that have to do with the information?
Well, I guess we might wonder if his unsupported say-so is in fact "information". If there's anything in his screed that you can reference from reputable sources, why don't you do that? If not, then he himself isn't much of a reference, since he isn't so much a scholar as a habitual liar.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 973 by Jon, posted 01-09-2015 4:14 PM Jon has not replied

  
Newer Topic | Older Topic
Jump to:


Copyright 2001-2023 by EvC Forum, All Rights Reserved

™ Version 4.2
Innovative software from Qwixotic © 2024