|
Register | Sign In |
|
QuickSearch
Thread ▼ Details |
|
Thread Info
|
|
|
Author | Topic: Multiculturalism | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
Tangle Member Posts: 9489 From: UK Joined: Member Rating: 4.9 |
Jon writes: I think we all know that. Do you have any suggestions on how we might do that? Do you have any responses to anything else I posted in my replies to you. I have nothing more than what I have already said. What is your answer?Je suis Charlie. Je suis Ahmed. Life, don't talk to me about life - Marvin the Paranoid Android "Science adjusts it's views based on what's observed.Faith is the denial of observation so that Belief can be preserved." - Tim Minchin, in his beat poem, Storm.
|
|||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
Jon Inactive Member |
I gave my answer in Message 1109:
quote: Your solutions sound good, but they have been so far ineffective. Love your enemies!
|
|||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
Faith  Suspended Member (Idle past 1444 days) Posts: 35298 From: Nevada, USA Joined: |
Jon writes: Maybe. But it might just be a pipe dream to think we can educate people away from backwardness and extremism. Of course we can,mwe did it with Christianity. Just wondering. "We did it," you say, "We?" Please, who is this "we," And what did this "we" do? "With Christianity?" "Educate away from backwardness and extremism?" Please describe this backwardness and extremism. Educate? I'm quite sure "you" did no such thing, but I'm afraid I have no idea what you THINK you did. Please enlighten. Is there some historical event, perchance, that you can point to, that you think accomplished this educating of Christianity? I can hardly wait for your answer. Edited by Faith, : No reason given. Edited by Faith, : No reason given.
|
|||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
ringo Member (Idle past 411 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: |
Jon writes:
So are you suggesting civil war or carpet-bagging?
Slavery and segregation were not ended in the south by building more schools.
|
|||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
jar Member (Idle past 393 days) Posts: 34026 From: Texas!! Joined: |
There have been several methods of educating Christians. In the US one big and important method was through a Constitution that has so far prevented Christians imposing most of their laws on others.
A second very successful path has been through science and education which showed conclusively that many events such as the Biblical Floods or Exodus or Conquest of Canaan simply never happened and that the Earth and Universe are billions of years old and that humans are simply another of the Primates and that evolution is a fact with the Theory of Evolution explaining what is seen. Of those two paths the former may be the more important but the later, when combined with ridicule, may have the longest lasting effects.Anyone so limited that they can only spell a word one way is severely handicapped!
|
|||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
Faith  Suspended Member (Idle past 1444 days) Posts: 35298 From: Nevada, USA Joined: |
The Christians I consider to be Christianity as such, a very large bunch of us, don't believe in Evolution. Try again.
|
|||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
jar Member (Idle past 393 days) Posts: 34026 From: Texas!! Joined:
|
Yes, we know that you are totally out of touch with reality, but fortunately not all are willfully ignorant. In fact education has worked so well that it has been necessary for those like yourself to create avoidance schools to try to prevent children from exposure to reality. The problem is though that reality is everywhere out there and so as the children come to realize that their parents, teachers, pastors and even friends have just been lying to them they abandon Christianity.
So education works.Anyone so limited that they can only spell a word one way is severely handicapped!
|
|||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
Jon Inactive Member |
So are you suggesting civil war or carpet-bagging? I'm suggesting that we might need to do more than just bring the horse to water.Love your enemies!
|
|||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
ringo Member (Idle past 411 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: |
Jon writes:
And I'm asking what "more" is. Holding his head under water?
I'm suggesting that we might need to do more than just bring the horse to water.
|
|||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
Faith  Suspended Member (Idle past 1444 days) Posts: 35298 From: Nevada, USA Joined: |
Well, since rejection of evolution doesn't blow people up and that seemed to be Tangle's main focus, I'd like to hear HIS answer to my questions.
|
|||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
Tangle Member Posts: 9489 From: UK Joined: Member Rating: 4.9 |
Jon writes: I gave my answer in Message 1109: But you neglected to include a solution.
Your solutions sound good, but they have been so far ineffective. I think they have been very effective, the vast majority of Muslims in Western societies now share our values - that is why those that don't are causing a problem. They are concerned that their primitive version is getting diluted. But, in any case, would you expect such a change to happen overnight? The western enlightenment ooh centuries.Je suis Charlie. Je suis Ahmed. Life, don't talk to me about life - Marvin the Paranoid Android "Science adjusts it's views based on what's observed.Faith is the denial of observation so that Belief can be preserved." - Tim Minchin, in his beat poem, Storm.
|
|||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
jar Member (Idle past 393 days) Posts: 34026 From: Texas!! Joined: |
But it is a great example of taming Christianity and Fundy Christian have and do blow folk up.
As I said back in Message 1115 there have been two major paths. Education has lead the majority of Christians towards a far more progressive and secular approach to society or even abandoning Christianity in favor of a secular humanist path. That cuts down on the fundy crazies. But there is also the Constitution in the US which than God has limited the ability of Christians to impose their laws on the rest of society and has allowed active legal sanctioning of the mainly Christian hate groups like the KKK and American Nazi parties. It has also allowed prosecution of those who do bomb (and there have been many of those in my lifetime right here in the US).Anyone so limited that they can only spell a word one way is severely handicapped!
|
|||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
Jon Inactive Member |
And I'm asking what "more" is. That's the same question I've been asking since I began the thread.Love your enemies!
|
|||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
Jon Inactive Member |
I think they have been very effective, the vast majority of Muslims in Western societies now share our values - that is why those that don't are causing a problem. They are concerned that their primitive version is getting diluted. They do?
quote: Notice that not even a technical majority opposed it (which would have been the Western position). The same goes for a poll in 2005 which found that 37% of British Muslims felt British Jews were "legitimate targets as part of the ongoing struggle for justice in the Middle East" ("Muslim Poll" (PDF) from Populus p. 22). Only 35% thought Jews weren't "legitimate targets". Zero percent of British Muslims found homosexuality to be morally acceptable:
quote: That percentage isn't even close to the Western views of the rest of the British population:
quote: And what effect does education have on this? Well, apparently exactly the opposite effect you think it does. To add some meat to Sam Harris' mention that extremism increases as affluence increases, 5% of British Muslims in general said they would not report someone they knew was planning to carry out a terror attack ("UK Muslims Back Blair's Bid to Throw Out Fanatics" from The Scotsman) while 10% of British Muslim students said they would not tell ("The Voice of Muslim Students" (PDF — click 'download') from FOSIS p. 36). Where are these vast majorities? Where has education been very effective in assimilating Muslims into Western culture? Your emotions aren't supported by the facts.Love your enemies!
|
|||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
Tangle Member Posts: 9489 From: UK Joined: Member Rating: 4.9 |
It's not really necessary to cherry pick so outrageously. Those same polls also said that 99% thought the bombers in the UK were wrong and 91% feel loyal to Britain.
The Sharia law stuff is equally outrageous, most Muslims actually use their laws in the UK now, quite legally to solve disputes between neighbours and inside families - this does not in anyway suggest that they support stoning, flogging and beheading for trivial 'offences'. If you polled 500 evangelical Christians you would find all 500 of them also believe homosexual acts to be immoral - it's a primitive bloody religion what do you expect? We know that many Muslims in Western democracies are conflicted and that some of them have values which most of the rest of the UK find abhorrent but the overwhelming majority comply with our laws and are adjusting. We need to work harder to make the process of integration work faster. I'm still waiting for your solution.Je suis Charlie. Je suis Ahmed. Life, don't talk to me about life - Marvin the Paranoid Android "Science adjusts it's views based on what's observed.Faith is the denial of observation so that Belief can be preserved." - Tim Minchin, in his beat poem, Storm.
|
|
|
Do Nothing Button
Copyright 2001-2023 by EvC Forum, All Rights Reserved
Version 4.2
Innovative software from Qwixotic © 2024