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Author | Topic: Faith and Well-Being | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
Jon Inactive Member |
That's all nice, Phat. But what does it have to do with the conflict between feeling stronger faith when life is going well and the knowledge that such faith is ultimately as empty as Job's would have been had he abandoned his faith in God at the first sign of trouble?
Love your enemies!
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Phat Member Posts: 18299 From: Denver,Colorado USA Joined: Member Rating: 1.1 |
Stile writes: I dont mean to dismiss feelings. What I am saying is that some feelings are addictive and automatic whereas others are measured and felt "from the depths"...it is the latter which are more useful Feelings are the most powerful force to a human mind. They are at their most powerful when not connected to the physical world.Whether that's good or bad is determined by what we do with those feelings. Saying, "I don't know," is the same as saying, "Maybe."~ZombieRingo If You Don't Stand For Something You Will Fall For Anything~Malcolm X
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Phat Member Posts: 18299 From: Denver,Colorado USA Joined: Member Rating: 1.1 |
If you have knowledge that your faith is empty, perhaps there is some cognitive dissonance at being an agnostic. Some claim that knowing God is impossible. Personally I don't believe it to be so, but I cannot prove to people how I know that God exists, so we agree to disagree.
Saying, "I don't know," is the same as saying, "Maybe."~ZombieRingo If You Don't Stand For Something You Will Fall For Anything~Malcolm X
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RAZD Member (Idle past 1426 days) Posts: 20714 From: the other end of the sidewalk Joined:
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Evidence Schmevidence. The whole idea of faith and belief excludes evidence as an option. But evidence that contradicts belief indicates the belief is invalid, and continuing to hold the belief can be delusional. Belief in a young earth for example (Age Correlations and An Old Earth, Version 2 No 1). However absence of evidence is not evidence of absence. Logically the rational position is open-minded skepticism. Enjoy.by our ability to understand Rebel☮American☆Zen☯Deist ... to learn ... to think ... to live ... to laugh ... to share. Join the effort to solve medical problems, AIDS/HIV, Cancer and more with Team EvC! (click)
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Phat Member Posts: 18299 From: Denver,Colorado USA Joined: Member Rating: 1.1 |
razd writes: Logically the rational position is open-minded skepticism. But is this healthy for a believer? After all, a believer has already taken the plunge. Its one thing to question and another to doubt.Saying, "I don't know," is the same as saying, "Maybe."~ZombieRingo If You Don't Stand For Something You Will Fall For Anything~Malcolm X
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Jon Inactive Member |
I don't think my faith is entirely empty. I just know that if I were to give in to my urges to have stronger faith because my life is going well that the extra faith would be empty.
Love your enemies!
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Phat Member Posts: 18299 From: Denver,Colorado USA Joined: Member Rating: 1.1
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Believers call it worshiping the creation rather than the Creator. If one feels a stronger faith because of the blessings and prosperity in their lives than they do when they are broke and homeless, they could be worshiping the blessings and not the Provider of those blessings.
Saying, "I don't know," is the same as saying, "Maybe."~ZombieRingo If You Don't Stand For Something You Will Fall For Anything~Malcolm X
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ringo Member (Idle past 433 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined:
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Phat writes:
Bullshit. Faith and belief allows you to form an opinion on subjects for which there is no evidence. It does NOT give you an excuse to ignore evidence that does exist. The whole idea of faith and belief excludes evidence as an option. As I have pointed out to you many times, people who claim to be "in communion" with Jesus often ignore His teachings - i.e. the evidence suggests that there is no special communication coming to them. You can not just brush off that evidence. What you should be doing is asking yourself why the message isn't getting through instead of making excuses for why you ignore it.
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Phat Member Posts: 18299 From: Denver,Colorado USA Joined: Member Rating: 1.1 |
You are right. Actions speak louder than words.
Perhaps preachers should be preaching by acting...by doing. But words are all we have in this forum. Unless you want me to send you a fruitcake for Christmas...I shall do so...no strings attached. Saying, "I don't know," is the same as saying, "Maybe."~ZombieRingo If You Don't Stand For Something You Will Fall For Anything~Malcolm X
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ringo Member (Idle past 433 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined:
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Phat writes:
Or you could give the money to that homeless guy instead of stepping over him.
Unless you want me to send you a fruitcake for Christmas...I shall do so...no strings attached.
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RAZD Member (Idle past 1426 days) Posts: 20714 From: the other end of the sidewalk Joined: |
But is this healthy for a believer? After all, a believer has already taken the plunge. Its one thing to question and another to doubt. Yes, I think it is healthy for a believer - there should always be an element of doubt, it helps keep you humble and it holds you back from being a pompous arrogant bigoted flatulence. by our ability to understand Rebel☮American☆Zen☯Deist ... to learn ... to think ... to live ... to laugh ... to share. Join the effort to solve medical problems, AIDS/HIV, Cancer and more with Team EvC! (click)
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Faith  Suspended Member (Idle past 1466 days) Posts: 35298 From: Nevada, USA Joined:
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Yes, I think it is healthy for a believer - there should always be an element of doubt, it helps keep you humble and it holds you back from being a pompous arrogant bigoted flatulence. So, in your opinion, is there never any point at which a person could say yes, this is it, this is the truth and I'm staking my life on it?
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ringo Member (Idle past 433 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined:
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Phat writes:
I don't think there's much of a distinction. What's the point of questioning if you don't have doubts about the answer?
Its one thing to question and another to doubt.Q: Which is better? Chocolate or strawberry?
Unfortunately, many Christians have been taught that doubt is "a bad thing" to be avoided. Instead, you should think of it as a safety mechanism.
A: Chocolate. Q: Okay.
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RAZD Member (Idle past 1426 days) Posts: 20714 From: the other end of the sidewalk Joined: |
So, in your opinion, is there never any point at which a person could say yes, this is it, this is the truth and I'm staking my life on it? Curiously, I actually wondered if you would respond to this. Yes, I am absolutely sure that you cannot ever be absolutely sure . In all honesty, the best you can say imho is that you believe {X} is absolutely true, and that there is the possibility, however remote, that you could be wrong. In Buddhist belief ALL is illusion. We learn what we can, we piece it together into a framework that is our world-view, and new information is then pitted against that world-view to see if it is consilient or contrary, and we naturally distrust contrary information more than consilient information (innate confirmation bias), and the problem is, that contrary information could be (more) correct. Enjoy.by our ability to understand Rebel☮American☆Zen☯Deist ... to learn ... to think ... to live ... to laugh ... to share. Join the effort to solve medical problems, AIDS/HIV, Cancer and more with Team EvC! (click)
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RAZD Member (Idle past 1426 days) Posts: 20714 From: the other end of the sidewalk Joined: |
Q: Which is better? Chocolate or strawberry? A: Chocolate. Q: Okay. But you can question further: what about chocolate covered strawberries? Enjoyby our ability to understand Rebel☮American☆Zen☯Deist ... to learn ... to think ... to live ... to laugh ... to share. Join the effort to solve medical problems, AIDS/HIV, Cancer and more with Team EvC! (click)
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