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Author Topic:   Addiction By Definition
Phat
Member
Posts: 10079
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.3


(2)
Message 151 of 213 (797409)
01-20-2017 6:45 AM
Reply to: Message 150 by NoNukes
01-20-2017 1:57 AM


Day 187. Personal observations.
Have we really connected all addictions to brain changes that can be revealed by an MRI scan?
Well, OK. The cost would be prohibitive...so no. Let me do a bit more research into this one....

This is Day 187. I had dinner with an old friend last night. He was the one who used to suffer from addictions to the point that he had to do prison time due to the consequences. He also was a Torah student and it was he who introduced me to the concept of Rational Recovery. I was mildly interested in the science behind recovery but it never really hit home until I actually have been recovering.

Here is a good website. Understanding Drug Use and Addiction

quote:
In reality, drug addiction is a complex disease, and quitting usually takes more than good intentions or a strong will. Drugs change the brain in ways that make quitting hard, even for those who want to. Fortunately, researchers know more than ever about how drugs affect the brain and have found treatments that can help people recover from drug addiction and lead productive lives.

I suppose that first, the individual themselves would start the ball rolling towards recovery. Without the cooperation of the individual, recovery is quite simply impossible. The next step is how the intervention specialist---be it a professional, layman group leader, or even a well-meaning friend guides the addict towards recovery. For some, a sobriety group does the trick, but the science is in the length of sobriety. For others, a psychiatrist may be needed to jump start the brain chemically towards abstinence. My point is that the brain will only change once the subject wants to change, feels safe, and only when the length of sobriety from the addiction adequately allows the brain to heal back from its aberration.


Chance as a real force is a myth. It has no basis in reality and no place in scientific inquiry. For science and philosophy to continue to advance in knowledge, chance must be demythologized once and for all. –RC Sproul
"A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." –Mark Twain "
~"If that's not sufficient for you go soak your head."~Faith
Whoever trusts in his own mind is a fool, but he who walks in wisdom will be delivered.~Proverbs 28:26

This message is a reply to:
 Message 150 by NoNukes, posted 01-20-2017 1:57 AM NoNukes has acknowledged this reply

Replies to this message:
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RAZD
Member
Posts: 19230
From: the other end of the sidewalk
Joined: 03-14-2004
Member Rating: 2.6


(1)
Message 152 of 213 (797415)
01-20-2017 9:00 AM
Reply to: Message 151 by Phat
01-20-2017 6:45 AM


Re: Day 187. Personal observations.
Well said.


we are limited in our ability to understand
by our ability to understand
RebelAmerican☆Zen☯Deist
... to learn ... to think ... to live ... to laugh ...
to share.


• • • Join the effort to solve medical problems, AIDS/HIV, Cancer and more with Team EvC! (click) • • •

This message is a reply to:
 Message 151 by Phat, posted 01-20-2017 6:45 AM Phat has acknowledged this reply

  
Phat
Member
Posts: 10079
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.3


Message 153 of 213 (797462)
01-21-2017 12:15 PM


Irrationality and Addiction Day 188
Has anyone noticed that as my brain is healing from my addiction, my irrational beliefs seem to have taken on a temporary emotional obsession?

Dont get me wrong...I am a believer as always, but my arguments seem petty, desperate, and not rational lately. I am attributing this to mental healing, though am at a loss to explain why I am getting worse.


Chance as a real force is a myth. It has no basis in reality and no place in scientific inquiry. For science and philosophy to continue to advance in knowledge, chance must be demythologized once and for all. –RC Sproul
"A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." –Mark Twain "
~"If that's not sufficient for you go soak your head."~Faith
Whoever trusts in his own mind is a fool, but he who walks in wisdom will be delivered.~Proverbs 28:26

Replies to this message:
 Message 154 by NoNukes, posted 01-22-2017 8:39 AM Phat has not yet responded
 Message 155 by RAZD, posted 01-22-2017 9:43 AM Phat has not yet responded
 Message 156 by Stile, posted 01-22-2017 11:07 AM Phat has responded
 Message 157 by ramoss, posted 01-23-2017 10:56 AM Phat has responded

  
NoNukes
Member
Posts: 10069
From: Central NC USA
Joined: 08-13-2010
Member Rating: 1.9


(1)
Message 154 of 213 (797484)
01-22-2017 8:39 AM
Reply to: Message 153 by Phat
01-21-2017 12:15 PM


Re: Irrationality and Addiction Day 188
Has anyone noticed that as my brain is healing from my addiction, my irrational beliefs seem to have taken on a temporary emotional obsession

Actually, you have seemed to me to be more rational as of late.


Under a government which imprisons any unjustly, the true place for a just man is also in prison. Thoreau: Civil Disobedience (1846)

History will have to record that the greatest tragedy of this period of social transition was not the strident clamor of the bad people, but the appalling silence of the good people. Martin Luther King

I never considered a difference of opinion in politics, in religion, in philosophy, as cause for withdrawing from a friend. Thomas Jefferson

Seems to me if its clear that certain things that require ancient dates couldn't possibly be true, we are on our way to throwing out all those ancient dates on the basis of the actual evidence. -- Faith

Some of us are worried about just how much damage he will do in his last couple of weeks as president, to make it easier for the NY Times and Washington post to try to destroy Trump's presidency. -- marc9000


This message is a reply to:
 Message 153 by Phat, posted 01-21-2017 12:15 PM Phat has not yet responded

    
RAZD
Member
Posts: 19230
From: the other end of the sidewalk
Joined: 03-14-2004
Member Rating: 2.6


Message 155 of 213 (797486)
01-22-2017 9:43 AM
Reply to: Message 153 by Phat
01-21-2017 12:15 PM


Re: Irrationality and Addiction Day 188
Has anyone noticed that as my brain is healing from my addiction, my irrational beliefs seem to have taken on a temporary emotional obsession?

I agree with NoNukes that your posts seem more thoughtful.

You could be experiencing some cognitive dissonance as you recover from your addict mind?

Edited by RAZD, : .


we are limited in our ability to understand
by our ability to understand
RebelAmerican☆Zen☯Deist
... to learn ... to think ... to live ... to laugh ...
to share.


• • • Join the effort to solve medical problems, AIDS/HIV, Cancer and more with Team EvC! (click) • • •

This message is a reply to:
 Message 153 by Phat, posted 01-21-2017 12:15 PM Phat has not yet responded

  
Stile
Member
Posts: 3037
From: Ontario, Canada
Joined: 12-02-2004
Member Rating: 3.2


(1)
Message 156 of 213 (797494)
01-22-2017 11:07 AM
Reply to: Message 153 by Phat
01-21-2017 12:15 PM


Re: Irrationality and Addiction Day 188
Phat writes:

Day 188

Nice! Keep going! It only gets easier... I say without any personal experience in such things

Phat writes:

Has anyone noticed that as my brain is healing from my addiction, my irrational beliefs seem to have taken on a temporary emotional obsession?

Dont get me wrong...I am a believer as always, but my arguments seem petty, desperate, and not rational lately. I am attributing this to mental healing, though am at a loss to explain why I am getting worse.

I haven't noticed anything. And others seem to ring similar sentiments. Perhaps this is something you're only noticing from inside your own mind?

I would like to point something out, though:

...petty, desperate, and not rational lately. I am attributing this to mental healing, though am at a loss to explain why I am getting worse.

I have no issues labeling such traits as "worse." (But I don't see any of this in your posts).

My issue is that just before this you mention a "temporary emotional obsession."

I would like to point out that "emotions" never make anything "worse."

Emotions themselves are the way humans work... we have emotions, we're human.

The only "worse" thing emotions can bring is if you follow them without using your intellect to monitor and guide your actions.
For example: Road rage. Simply "following the emotions" of road rage is a bad thing. However, if you use your intellect to monitor and guide your actions, and accept the emotion for what it is - a human feeling of rage - you put that emotion to good use - focusing more on safe driving habits.

There's nothing "wrong" or bad about emotions. If there was, there would be something fundamentally wrong/bad about being human. Because humans have emotions.

There's only wrong or bad choices or actions following those emotions.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 153 by Phat, posted 01-21-2017 12:15 PM Phat has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 159 by Phat, posted 01-24-2017 11:18 AM Stile has acknowledged this reply

    
ramoss
Member
Posts: 3047
Joined: 08-11-2004
Member Rating: 3.7


(1)
Message 157 of 213 (797516)
01-23-2017 10:56 AM
Reply to: Message 153 by Phat
01-21-2017 12:15 PM


Re: Irrationality and Addiction Day 188
Have you though it might not be because you are being more irrational, but more aware of yourself??
This message is a reply to:
 Message 153 by Phat, posted 01-21-2017 12:15 PM Phat has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 158 by Phat, posted 01-24-2017 11:11 AM ramoss has not yet responded

  
Phat
Member
Posts: 10079
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.3


(2)
Message 158 of 213 (797601)
01-24-2017 11:11 AM
Reply to: Message 157 by ramoss
01-23-2017 10:56 AM


Irrationality and Addiction Day 191
ramoss writes:

Have you thought it might not be because you are being more irrational, but more aware of yourself??

Actually I have considered that possibility.

Today is day 191. I am coming down with that cough/respiratory crud that seems to be going around!

Yesterday I passed by a lotto machine and looked at all the "new" games...and just looking at them caused a reaction within me as I thought about certain undefinable emotions that I used to have while playing them.

Contrast that with now. I am at peace. It would be folly to ever entertain chaos such as i did. Perhaps back then I saw the distress as excitement. Now, however, I am glad that I am at peace.


Chance as a real force is a myth. It has no basis in reality and no place in scientific inquiry. For science and philosophy to continue to advance in knowledge, chance must be demythologized once and for all. –RC Sproul
"A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." –Mark Twain "
~"If that's not sufficient for you go soak your head."~Faith
Whoever trusts in his own mind is a fool, but he who walks in wisdom will be delivered.~Proverbs 28:26

This message is a reply to:
 Message 157 by ramoss, posted 01-23-2017 10:56 AM ramoss has not yet responded

  
Phat
Member
Posts: 10079
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.3


Message 159 of 213 (797602)
01-24-2017 11:18 AM
Reply to: Message 156 by Stile
01-22-2017 11:07 AM


E-motions Day 191
stile writes:

I would like to point out that "emotions" never make anything "worse."

Emotions themselves are the way humans work... we have emotions, we're human.

The only "worse" thing emotions can bring is if you follow them without using your intellect to monitor and guide your actions.
For example: Road rage. Simply "following the emotions" of road rage is a bad thing. However, if you use your intellect to monitor and guide your actions, and accept the emotion for what it is - a human feeling of rage - you put that emotion to good use - focusing more on safe driving habits.

There's nothing "wrong" or bad about emotions. If there was, there would be something fundamentally wrong/bad about being human. Because humans have emotions.

There's only wrong or bad choices or actions following those emotions.

Looking back...and trying to recall the "feeling" of the addictive days versus the feeling of the here and now.

Back then I was like a zombie. I felt nothing except anxiety and the drive to gamble. Apart from fantasy based thinking...which always led back to the gambling "rush" itself...I hardly was aware of what I was doing at all... and yet I was aware that my will at that time was to feed my addiction.


Chance as a real force is a myth. It has no basis in reality and no place in scientific inquiry. For science and philosophy to continue to advance in knowledge, chance must be demythologized once and for all. –RC Sproul
"A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." –Mark Twain "
~"If that's not sufficient for you go soak your head."~Faith
Whoever trusts in his own mind is a fool, but he who walks in wisdom will be delivered.~Proverbs 28:26

This message is a reply to:
 Message 156 by Stile, posted 01-22-2017 11:07 AM Stile has acknowledged this reply

Replies to this message:
 Message 160 by New Cat's Eye, posted 01-24-2017 12:20 PM Phat has responded

  
New Cat's Eye
Member
Posts: 11816
From: near St. Louis
Joined: 01-27-2005
Member Rating: 1.6


Message 160 of 213 (797606)
01-24-2017 12:20 PM
Reply to: Message 159 by Phat
01-24-2017 11:18 AM


Re: E-motions Day 191
I felt nothing except anxiety and the drive to gamble.

There's medicine for that, talk to your doctor.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 159 by Phat, posted 01-24-2017 11:18 AM Phat has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 161 by Phat, posted 01-24-2017 3:49 PM New Cat's Eye has not yet responded
 Message 162 by Phat, posted 01-27-2017 7:39 PM New Cat's Eye has not yet responded

  
Phat
Member
Posts: 10079
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.3


Message 161 of 213 (797631)
01-24-2017 3:49 PM
Reply to: Message 160 by New Cat's Eye
01-24-2017 12:20 PM


Re: E-motions Day 191
I got through the early recovery without the need for the medicine.

I studied the brain in this book:

Healing The Addicted Brain

He mentions the newest medications, but I have had bad results with medications before so I toughed out the first 40 days and never looked back.

E-Motions can be thought of as energy in motion. My point was that an addicted brain has a limited sense of what the emotion---the energy---actually is.

To an addict, the feeling is simply action. After 40 days, the feelings begin to become reassociated with the energy in motion.


Chance as a real force is a myth. It has no basis in reality and no place in scientific inquiry. For science and philosophy to continue to advance in knowledge, chance must be demythologized once and for all. –RC Sproul
"A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." –Mark Twain "
~"If that's not sufficient for you go soak your head."~Faith
Whoever trusts in his own mind is a fool, but he who walks in wisdom will be delivered.~Proverbs 28:26

This message is a reply to:
 Message 160 by New Cat's Eye, posted 01-24-2017 12:20 PM New Cat's Eye has not yet responded

  
Phat
Member
Posts: 10079
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.3


(1)
Message 162 of 213 (797832)
01-27-2017 7:39 PM
Reply to: Message 160 by New Cat's Eye
01-24-2017 12:20 PM


Brain Recovery: Day 194 and counting
New New Cat Sci writes:

There's medicine for that, talk to your doctor.

I studied more about the medications. The following are common in Alcohol recovery, at least: Vivitrol, Campral, Antabuse and Suboxone.

Addiction is a chronic medical illness that attacks the brain, damaging key parts of the cerebral cortex and limbic system.

Much of the injury to the brain occurs in the frontal cortex, an area that plays an important role in memory, judgment, impulse control, problem-solving, and other intellectual skills. The medications are primarily effective at healing the limbic system, where desires and basic drives reside.

A comprehensive treatment model includes 12 step programs and/or group therapy...talk therapy. Evidence shows that an addict will generally not listen or consider what's best for them until after 21-40 days of sobriety.

A well-planned treatment model also incorporates psychiatric care, psychotherapy, wellness/nutrition/stress management, neuropsychological assessment, and family therapy.

I am using some of these methods but have not incorporated all of them. Talking here at EvC is part of my therapy, but only informally.

Today is Day 194---I am battling a cold and am worn out from working so hard. Sleep and plenty of water are tried and true therapies and I am using them.

Edited by Phat, : No reason given.


Chance as a real force is a myth. It has no basis in reality and no place in scientific inquiry. For science and philosophy to continue to advance in knowledge, chance must be demythologized once and for all. –RC Sproul
"A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." –Mark Twain "
~"If that's not sufficient for you go soak your head."~Faith
Whoever trusts in his own mind is a fool, but he who walks in wisdom will be delivered.~Proverbs 28:26

This message is a reply to:
 Message 160 by New Cat's Eye, posted 01-24-2017 12:20 PM New Cat's Eye has not yet responded

  
Phat
Member
Posts: 10079
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.3


(1)
Message 163 of 213 (797909)
01-29-2017 9:58 AM


Day 196 Facing Codependency
I am finding that my lifelong issues revolving around entitlement and codependency are coming to the forefront.

quote:
“Codependence is the pain in adulthood that comes from being wounded in childhood and leads to a high probability of relationship problems and addictive/compulsive behavior. It is a combination of immature thinking, feeling and behaving that generates an aversive relationship with the self (self-loathing), which the codependent individual acts out through self- destructive or unduly self-sacrificial behavior.”

I am helping to care for my 93-year-old Mother and am becoming scared...not just of losing her but of losing what she represents to me. Although I am free from gambling, I find myself depending on things in life that won't help me.

I am just scratching the surface on these deep emotions so far...but I can say that they are very strong...ingrained from when I was young. I realize that I need to depend on others---and on God..though some would challenge that assumption.

I feel very scared by myself...when I finally get down to it. Not even sure I feel it as I write this...so intuitively I may be receiving false signals. Stay tuned


Chance as a real force is a myth. It has no basis in reality and no place in scientific inquiry. For science and philosophy to continue to advance in knowledge, chance must be demythologized once and for all. –RC Sproul
"A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." –Mark Twain "
~"If that's not sufficient for you go soak your head."~Faith
Whoever trusts in his own mind is a fool, but he who walks in wisdom will be delivered.~Proverbs 28:26

  
Kiko Brian 
Suspended Member (Idle past 193 days)
Posts: 9
Joined: 01-30-2017


Message 164 of 213 (798363)
02-02-2017 12:22 AM


spam
Spam removed

Edited by AdminNosy, : No reason given.


    
Phat
Member
Posts: 10079
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.3


(1)
Message 165 of 213 (799309)
02-09-2017 3:57 AM


Day 206.
My mind is blank. I feel anger...like the fundamentalist Christians I warned about in my Trump=antichrist post.

I too am scared of losing. I am angry at anyone or anything that takes my security away from me.

All I know is that I am in a marathon. This is not a sprint. I could be in therapy for years. Stay tuned....


Chance as a real force is a myth. It has no basis in reality and no place in scientific inquiry. For science and philosophy to continue to advance in knowledge, chance must be demythologized once and for all. –RC Sproul
"A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." –Mark Twain "
~"If that's not sufficient for you go soak your head."~Faith
Whoever trusts in his own mind is a fool, but he who walks in wisdom will be delivered.~Proverbs 28:26

Replies to this message:
 Message 166 by RAZD, posted 02-09-2017 7:43 AM Phat has acknowledged this reply

  
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