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Author Topic:   Addiction By Definition
RAZD
Member
Posts: 19482
From: the other end of the sidewalk
Joined: 03-14-2004
Member Rating: 2.7


(3)
Message 211 of 225 (821881)
10-14-2017 8:07 AM
Reply to: Message 209 by Phat
10-13-2017 5:38 PM


Re: Relapse Blues
One lesson I have learned is how easily the brain resumes its old patterns. I am humbled by how much I did accomplish and wonder why I can't seem to do it anymore.

I likely won't post anymore until and unless I climb out of this quicksand and get at least 30 days in again. To be honest, at this point I don't even feel like fighting.

You can do it, you have done it before, and doing it again is easier -- your brain will easily resume that learned pattern as well, but you are fighting one you've been trapped in for a long time. It takes dedication and commitment. You can do it.

Fight for the you that you want to be.

Strength


we are limited in our ability to understand
by our ability to understand
RebelAmerican☆Zen☯Deist
... to learn ... to think ... to live ... to laugh ...
to share.


• • • Join the effort to solve medical problems, AIDS/HIV, Cancer and more with Team EvC! (click) • • •

This message is a reply to:
 Message 209 by Phat, posted 10-13-2017 5:38 PM Phat has acknowledged this reply

  
NoNukes
Member
Posts: 10583
From: Central NC USA
Joined: 08-13-2010
Member Rating: 1.9


(2)
Message 212 of 225 (821883)
10-14-2017 9:31 AM
Reply to: Message 209 by Phat
10-13-2017 5:38 PM


Re: Relapse Blues
I dreaded writing this post, for I have (had) accomplished so much this past year and nearly everyone was cheering me on and congratulating my accomplishment.

I applaud your courage. You confessed this for a reason. The past year of sobriety is still yours and remains part of you. You are still a recovering gambler. Fighting from a relapse is also part of that.

I hope you don't let this relapse prevent you from starting again. Get a few days of freedom on your belt, then a week, etc. Get help if you need it. Take prescribed meds if you need them. Your thinking will clear up again.

likely won't post anymore until and unless I climb out of this quicksand and get at least 30 days in again. To be honest, at this point I don't even feel like fighting.

That's human. I'll bet we all understand how you feel, and I'll bet that more than one of has been there. You don't have to cut us off.


Under a government which imprisons any unjustly, the true place for a just man is also in prison. Thoreau: Civil Disobedience (1846)

I was thinking as long as I have my hands up … they’re not going to shoot me. This is what I’m thinking — they’re not going to shoot me. Wow, was I wrong. -- Charles Kinsey

We got a thousand points of light for the homeless man. We've got a kinder, gentler, machine gun hand. Neil Young, Rockin' in the Free World.

Worrying about the "browning of America" is not racism. -- Faith

I hate you all, you hate me -- Faith


This message is a reply to:
 Message 209 by Phat, posted 10-13-2017 5:38 PM Phat has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 213 by Phat, posted 10-15-2017 1:47 PM NoNukes has acknowledged this reply

    
Phat
Member
Posts: 10754
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.3


(3)
Message 213 of 225 (821927)
10-15-2017 1:47 PM
Reply to: Message 212 by NoNukes
10-14-2017 9:31 AM


Re: Relapse Blues
I'll bet we all understand how you feel, and I'll bet that more than one of has been there. You don't have to cut us off.
I just meant in this particular thread. There is nothing to say here. There is lots to talk about elsewhere. I have found a Psychiatrist that will consult with me next week, to see if there are any options that may help my OCD. I will report more here only after I have reversed the destructive cycle.

Chance as a real force is a myth. It has no basis in reality and no place in scientific inquiry. For science and philosophy to continue to advance in knowledge, chance must be demythologized once and for all. –RC Sproul
"A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." –Mark Twain "
~"If that's not sufficient for you go soak your head."~Faith
Paul was probably SO soaked in prayer nobody else has ever equaled him.~Faith :)

This message is a reply to:
 Message 212 by NoNukes, posted 10-14-2017 9:31 AM NoNukes has acknowledged this reply

  
Phat
Member
Posts: 10754
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.3


(1)
Message 214 of 225 (829987)
03-19-2018 5:02 PM


Day 91 and also Day 4
A lot has happened since August of 2017.

I had a major relapse after one year of sobriety from compulsive gambling. It took me 4 months of hell before I climbed back onto the horse, bruised and bleeding.
Now, again resolved, strong, and sober, I begin to attack my other major addiction---to sugar, carbs, and unhealthy eating. Today is Day 4 and my body is beginning to retool itself for fat burning mode. Stay tuned as I chronicle this topic in scientific detail as well as anecdotal observation.

The main part of any battle is mental. If you believe in the science, in God, and in yourself, you cannot help but win any fight.

Add by edit: I weighed in at 242.3 lb. My goal is to be a healthy 220...in no particular timeframe...the goal is progress, mindfulness, and patience.

Edited by Phat, : No reason given.


Chance as a real force is a myth. It has no basis in reality and no place in scientific inquiry. For science and philosophy to continue to advance in knowledge, chance must be demythologized once and for all. –RC Sproul
"A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." –Mark Twain "
~"If that's not sufficient for you go soak your head."~Faith
Paul was probably SO soaked in prayer nobody else has ever equaled him.~Faith :)

Replies to this message:
 Message 215 by Tangle, posted 03-19-2018 5:12 PM Phat has responded
 Message 216 by RAZD, posted 03-20-2018 11:04 AM Phat has responded
 Message 219 by Stile, posted 03-20-2018 11:43 AM Phat has acknowledged this reply

  
Tangle
Member
Posts: 5669
From: UK
Joined: 10-07-2011
Member Rating: 2.3


Message 215 of 225 (829988)
03-19-2018 5:12 PM
Reply to: Message 214 by Phat
03-19-2018 5:02 PM


Re: Day 91 and also Day 4
Phat writes:

Stay tuned as I chronicle this topic in scientific detail as well as anecdotal observation.

It seems to me that you're making eating just another one of your obsessions. If you want to be 'normal' why not behave like a normal? Eating is not something you need to make into a big thing. Normal isn't researching, calibrating and chronicling everything you cook and ingest and looking for admiration; normal is just eating what you like and being sensible about it.


Je suis Charlie. Je suis Ahmed. Je suis Juif. Je suis Parisien. I am Mancunian. I am Brum. I am London.I am Finland. Soy Barcelona

"Life, don't talk to me about life" - Marvin the Paranoid Android

"Science adjusts it's views based on what's observed.
Faith is the denial of observation so that Belief can be preserved."
- Tim Minchin, in his beat poem, Storm.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 214 by Phat, posted 03-19-2018 5:02 PM Phat has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 217 by Phat, posted 03-20-2018 11:06 AM Tangle has responded

  
RAZD
Member
Posts: 19482
From: the other end of the sidewalk
Joined: 03-14-2004
Member Rating: 2.7


(1)
Message 216 of 225 (830032)
03-20-2018 11:04 AM
Reply to: Message 214 by Phat
03-19-2018 5:02 PM


Re: Day 91 and also Day 4
you can do it Phat, you've already proven that by halting the relapse and rejecting it.

Focus on health is a good way to divert that energy to your benefit, so hope to see more on that. Are you still riding bike? Probably a little early for the year, but see if there is a local club to ride with. I have a couple choices here, one that is gently with good fellowship and one that is more competitive. I'm not up for the competitive, and doubt I can reach that level, but enjoy the company of the other.

We have also joined the local Y as they have yoga and spin and swimming and with my senior discount it is $10 per month. Even just getting in the water for a couple easy laps can relax and invigorate.

Enjoy


we are limited in our ability to understand
by our ability to understand
RebelAmerican☆Zen☯Deist
... to learn ... to think ... to live ... to laugh ...
to share.


• • • Join the effort to solve medical problems, AIDS/HIV, Cancer and more with Team EvC! (click) • • •

This message is a reply to:
 Message 214 by Phat, posted 03-19-2018 5:02 PM Phat has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 221 by Phat, posted 03-20-2018 3:23 PM RAZD has acknowledged this reply

  
Phat
Member
Posts: 10754
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.3


Message 217 of 225 (830033)
03-20-2018 11:06 AM
Reply to: Message 215 by Tangle
03-19-2018 5:12 PM


Re: Day 91 and also Day 4
Tangle writes:

It seems to me that you're making eating just another one of your obsessions.

And yet there is a definite thing called Carbohydrate Addiction. Besides, I am admittedly obsessive over quantification, measurement, and journaling. I simply use EvC as a public journal because I feel that my many years of study on some of these subjects are of interest to the public-at-large. You, of course, may dismiss it as you do religion, but then again you may not have issues with weight, diabetes or diet. Thank God for you!

For those of you with science minds, I challenge you to find any snake oil in the supplements that I have chosen to reboot my body. Lets start with this one. Go ahead, look it up. You will find nothing negative, and you will find that some very intelligent and educated scientists are on board as supporting its effectiveness.

Also discussed by Dr.Garth Nicolson


Chance as a real force is a myth. It has no basis in reality and no place in scientific inquiry. For science and philosophy to continue to advance in knowledge, chance must be demythologized once and for all. –RC Sproul
"A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." –Mark Twain "
~"If that's not sufficient for you go soak your head."~Faith
Paul was probably SO soaked in prayer nobody else has ever equaled him.~Faith :)

This message is a reply to:
 Message 215 by Tangle, posted 03-19-2018 5:12 PM Tangle has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 218 by Tangle, posted 03-20-2018 11:29 AM Phat has responded

  
Tangle
Member
Posts: 5669
From: UK
Joined: 10-07-2011
Member Rating: 2.3


(1)
Message 218 of 225 (830035)
03-20-2018 11:29 AM
Reply to: Message 217 by Phat
03-20-2018 11:06 AM


Re: Day 91 and also Day 4
Phat writes:

I challenge you to find any snake oil in the supplements that I have chosen to reboot my body. Lets start with this one. Go ahead, look it up. You will find nothing negative, and you will find that some very intelligent and educated scientists are on board as supporting its effectiveness.

The point is that everything your body needs to sustain itself is available in a normal, balanced diet. Add in some excercise - preferably natural like walking to work or digging the garden, a low stress job and a good family life, a bit of alcohol and maybe for you a bit of prayer, and you've got what you need.

Supplements are only necessary if you have a deficiency in something. You don't seem to be a wealthy man Phat, why are you wasting money on this nonsense?


Je suis Charlie. Je suis Ahmed. Je suis Juif. Je suis Parisien. I am Mancunian. I am Brum. I am London.I am Finland. Soy Barcelona

"Life, don't talk to me about life" - Marvin the Paranoid Android

"Science adjusts it's views based on what's observed.
Faith is the denial of observation so that Belief can be preserved."
- Tim Minchin, in his beat poem, Storm.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 217 by Phat, posted 03-20-2018 11:06 AM Phat has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 220 by Phat, posted 03-20-2018 11:47 AM Tangle has responded

  
Stile
Member
Posts: 3167
From: Ontario, Canada
Joined: 12-02-2004
Member Rating: 1.9


(1)
Message 219 of 225 (830039)
03-20-2018 11:43 AM
Reply to: Message 214 by Phat
03-19-2018 5:02 PM


Re: Day 91 and also Day 4
Phat writes:

Now, again resolved, strong, and sober, I begin to attack my other major addiction---to sugar, carbs, and unhealthy eating.

Yeah! Go Phat!!

The only gamble Phat should ever make... is betting on Phat.

You have absolutely no control over any of those other gambles involving money or health or sobriety or whatever other 3rd-party vice pulls at you.
But you have lots of control over Phat.

Phat's done it before, and Phat has the ability to improve Phat's environment. Therefore, Phat can do it again, and better!

Go Phat Go!!


This message is a reply to:
 Message 214 by Phat, posted 03-19-2018 5:02 PM Phat has acknowledged this reply

    
Phat
Member
Posts: 10754
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.3


(1)
Message 220 of 225 (830040)
03-20-2018 11:47 AM
Reply to: Message 218 by Tangle
03-20-2018 11:29 AM


Re: Day 91 and also Day 4
Supplements are only necessary if you have a deficiency in something. You don't seem to be a wealthy man Phat, why are you wasting money on this nonsense?
It's only $45.00 for a 3 month supply. I'll chalk it up to my entertainment budget. Don't tell me that you don't have any spending habits that could be scrutinized!

I also am curious to see if I notice any difference. I realize that there is such a thing as a placebo effect, but I read enough about studies that were done on this stuff to become curious as to its validity. If it gets me off of the couch and into the health club, (where I already have a 2-year membership) I will consider it money well spent. I received it in the mail yesterday and began taking the recommended dose (1/4 teaspoon per day). If it does me no good, I will be honest enough to swallow my pride and report such.


Chance as a real force is a myth. It has no basis in reality and no place in scientific inquiry. For science and philosophy to continue to advance in knowledge, chance must be demythologized once and for all. –RC Sproul
"A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." –Mark Twain "
~"If that's not sufficient for you go soak your head."~Faith
Paul was probably SO soaked in prayer nobody else has ever equaled him.~Faith :)

This message is a reply to:
 Message 218 by Tangle, posted 03-20-2018 11:29 AM Tangle has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 222 by Tangle, posted 03-20-2018 7:36 PM Phat has responded

  
Phat
Member
Posts: 10754
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.3


(1)
Message 221 of 225 (830060)
03-20-2018 3:23 PM
Reply to: Message 216 by RAZD
03-20-2018 11:04 AM


Re: Day 91 and also Day 4
RAZD writes:

Focus on health is a good way to divert that energy to your benefit, so hope to see more on that. Are you still riding bike? Probably a little early in the year, but see if there is a local club to ride with. I have a couple choices here, one that is gentle with good fellowship and one that is more competitive. I'm not up for the competitive, and doubt I can reach that level, but enjoy the company of the other.

We have also joined the local Y as they have yoga and spin and swimming and with my senior discount, it is $10 per month. Even just getting in the water for a couple easy laps can relax and invigorate.

Good job, RAZD! Your challenge is even greater than mine, but I believe that the mental aspect and the socialization cannot do anything but help you. We need to remind ourselves to take it slow yet to always move forward. There will be days when I will simply want to sleep, but if I continue being diligent of what I eat, I am doing the best that I can...which is enough. Reality offers us no guarantees, but our approach is literally the best approach to take in battling our chronic diseases and in regaining peak health. You may have seen that I am studying the Lipid Replacement Therapy---If it works and I feel that it is useful, I will send you more information.

Chance as a real force is a myth. It has no basis in reality and no place in scientific inquiry. For science and philosophy to continue to advance in knowledge, chance must be demythologized once and for all. –RC Sproul
"A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." –Mark Twain "
~"If that's not sufficient for you go soak your head."~Faith
Paul was probably SO soaked in prayer nobody else has ever equaled him.~Faith :)

This message is a reply to:
 Message 216 by RAZD, posted 03-20-2018 11:04 AM RAZD has acknowledged this reply

  
Tangle
Member
Posts: 5669
From: UK
Joined: 10-07-2011
Member Rating: 2.3


Message 222 of 225 (830082)
03-20-2018 7:36 PM
Reply to: Message 220 by Phat
03-20-2018 11:47 AM


Re: Day 91 and also Day 4
Phat writes:

It's only $45.00 for a 3 month supply. I'll chalk it up to my entertainment budget.

Ok, so long as you really do think of it that way. But you don't, do you?

Don't tell me that you don't have any spending habits that could be scrutinized!

Well actually I don't. I am a wealthy man by any measure but I find it hard to spend money on things that I'm 'supposed' to like cars and houses etc. Wealth is not the issue, it's need that we're talking about. You appear to need things - God's, gambling, diets, miracle cures. It's a personality disorder of a relatively minor sort that you won't solve with a miracle cure like a diet or a supplement. Don't waste your time and money.


Je suis Charlie. Je suis Ahmed. Je suis Juif. Je suis Parisien. I am Mancunian. I am Brum. I am London.I am Finland. Soy Barcelona

"Life, don't talk to me about life" - Marvin the Paranoid Android

"Science adjusts it's views based on what's observed.
Faith is the denial of observation so that Belief can be preserved."
- Tim Minchin, in his beat poem, Storm.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 220 by Phat, posted 03-20-2018 11:47 AM Phat has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 223 by Phat, posted 03-21-2018 3:24 AM Tangle has not yet responded
 Message 224 by Phat, posted 04-03-2018 10:22 AM Tangle has not yet responded

  
Phat
Member
Posts: 10754
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.3


Message 223 of 225 (830089)
03-21-2018 3:24 AM
Reply to: Message 222 by Tangle
03-20-2018 7:36 PM


Re: Day 91 and also Day 4
it's need that we're talking about. You appear to need things - God's, gambling, diets, miracle cures. It's a personality disorder of a relatively minor sort that you won't solve with a miracle cure like a diet or a supplement. Don't waste your time and money.
Some people need money and yet cannot spend it....I suppose an attractive rabbit trail would be where we discuss why some folks are frugal. This too can be construed as a personality disorder....though minor.

Add by Edit: I suppose that I should clarify. What is it that I really need? Security, Health, Peace Of Mind. You have a good argument that I seek these things through dubious measures.

I am simply arguing that you put far too much value in your money. It may get wiped out some day. Then what would you do?

Edited by Phat, : No reason given.


Chance as a real force is a myth. It has no basis in reality and no place in scientific inquiry. For science and philosophy to continue to advance in knowledge, chance must be demythologized once and for all. –RC Sproul
"A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." –Mark Twain "
~"If that's not sufficient for you go soak your head."~Faith
Paul was probably SO soaked in prayer nobody else has ever equaled him.~Faith :)

This message is a reply to:
 Message 222 by Tangle, posted 03-20-2018 7:36 PM Tangle has not yet responded

  
Phat
Member
Posts: 10754
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.3


Message 224 of 225 (830568)
04-03-2018 10:22 AM
Reply to: Message 222 by Tangle
03-20-2018 7:36 PM


Day 106 gambling, Day 3 Rational Eating.
Tangle writes:

You appear to need things - God's, gambling, diets, miracle cures. It's a personality disorder of a relatively minor sort that you won't solve with a miracle cure like a diet or a supplement.

Except that in this case, Type II Diabetics lack balance. They don't need insulin---they need balance.

Tangle writes:

But you have a better chance of being right if you go with mainstream medicine that has multiple pieces of research to support it.

Not in this case. Mainstream medicine is slowing coming around to accepting the lower carb approach as being better overall for Type II Diabetes in most cases. The additional prescribed insulin is, in fact, a mistake.

Tangle writes:

If you didn't believe in luck you wouldn't gamble - you'd know the game was rigged.

Both of us incorrectly believe in chance. My problem is that I occasionally yearn for fantasy over reality. Once the addiction again takes hold biochemically in the brain it becomes very hard to change---especially when I think that I deserve something. Awareness of reality does not always prevent one from choosing fantasy...or chance as it were.

Carbohydrates can be and are an addiction in our society. Food manufacturers know this. In a perfect world, Tangle would never spend money foolishly and would have faith that he would always have his money. In a perfect world, Phat would never gamble, would always eat a balanced diet and would quit needing things. We do not live in a perfect world, however. Addictions are in fact a reality.


Chance as a real force is a myth. It has no basis in reality and no place in scientific inquiry. For science and philosophy to continue to advance in knowledge, chance must be demythologized once and for all. –RC Sproul
"A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." –Mark Twain "
~"If that's not sufficient for you go soak your head."~Faith
Paul was probably SO soaked in prayer nobody else has ever equaled him.~Faith :)

This message is a reply to:
 Message 222 by Tangle, posted 03-20-2018 7:36 PM Tangle has not yet responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 225 by Phat, posted 04-05-2018 8:05 PM Phat has not yet responded

  
Phat
Member
Posts: 10754
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.3


Message 225 of 225 (830735)
04-05-2018 8:05 PM
Reply to: Message 224 by Phat
04-03-2018 10:22 AM


Carbohydrate Addiction
Can You Be Addicted To Carbs? Scientists Are Checking That Out

Some research:

Fast-digesting carbohydrates can stimulate regions of the brain involved in cravings and addiction, according to a study published in the American Journal of Clinical Nutrition.

Edited by Phat, : No reason given.


Chance as a real force is a myth. It has no basis in reality and no place in scientific inquiry. For science and philosophy to continue to advance in knowledge, chance must be demythologized once and for all. –RC Sproul
"A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." –Mark Twain "
~"If that's not sufficient for you go soak your head."~Faith
Paul was probably SO soaked in prayer nobody else has ever equaled him.~Faith :)

This message is a reply to:
 Message 224 by Phat, posted 04-03-2018 10:22 AM Phat has not yet responded

  
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