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Author Topic:   Addiction By Definition
ringo
Member
Posts: 13726
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005
Member Rating: 1.7


Message 91 of 213 (793675)
11-03-2016 11:59 AM
Reply to: Message 90 by Phat
11-02-2016 7:23 PM


Re: Day 107 and feeling feisty
Phat writes:

One Pastor challenged me---do I trust God or science?


I trust my neighbours but I lock my doors.
This message is a reply to:
 Message 90 by Phat, posted 11-02-2016 7:23 PM Phat has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 96 by Phat, posted 11-12-2016 3:19 AM ringo has acknowledged this reply
 Message 98 by Phat, posted 11-23-2016 11:42 AM ringo has responded

  
Larni
Member
Posts: 3951
From: Liverpool
Joined: 09-16-2005


Message 92 of 213 (793679)
11-03-2016 12:27 PM
Reply to: Message 48 by Phat
12-27-2015 4:25 PM


Re: Obsessive Compulsive Disorder
Not formally but in essence that sums up a lot of the cognitive side of CBT.

The above ontological example models the zero premise to BB theory. It does so by applying the relative uniformity assumption that the alleged zero event eventually ontologically progressed from the compressed alleged sub-microscopic chaos to bloom/expand into all of the present observable order, more than it models the Biblical record evidence for the existence of Jehovah, the maximal Biblical god designer.
-Attributed to Buzsaw Message 53

The explain to them any scientific investigation that explains the existence of things qualifies as science and as an explanation
-Attributed to Dawn Bertot Message 286

Does a query (thats a question Stile) that uses this physical reality, to look for an answer to its existence and properties become theoretical, considering its deductive conclusions are based against objective verifiable realities.
-Attributed to Dawn Bertot Message 134


This message is a reply to:
 Message 48 by Phat, posted 12-27-2015 4:25 PM Phat has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 93 by Phat, posted 11-07-2016 12:35 PM Larni has responded

    
Phat
Member
Posts: 9892
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.4


(3)
Message 93 of 213 (793962)
11-07-2016 12:35 PM
Reply to: Message 92 by Larni
11-03-2016 12:27 PM


Day 113 and i'm neurotic
My sobriety is continuing and by faith (and science) I am believing that my brain is healing...but the experts say that I cannot simply passively wait for change.

According to Psychology Today, Mindfulness is a state of active, open attention on the present. When you're mindful, you observe your thoughts and feelings from a distance, without judging them good or bad. Instead of letting your life pass you by, mindfulness means living in the moment and awakening to experience.

The science behind recovery insists on active countering in order to restructure the brain from its old habits and patterns.

Also, I have noticed that I am engaging in the same old pattern of arguments here at EvC in other topics with familiar opponents...and that i am fighting my tendency to fall back to the same answers that I am comfortable with.

My only worry is that I will be compromising my belief if i simply look for alternatives...

jar always told me that one characteristic of my ingrained beliefs was a sense of entitlement (which my gambling counselor also told me is common among addicts and particularly gambling addicts)

and a preference towards fantasy over reality.

Perhaps it will be helpful for me to employ critical thought as a vehicle towards rewiring my neuro-linguistic circuits as I strive to break the repetitive bondage of ingrained thought patterns that show signs of the addictive cycle.

Nodody ever told me this would be easy!


Chance as a real force is a myth. It has no basis in reality and no place in scientific inquiry. For science and philosophy to continue to advance in knowledge, chance must be demythologized once and for all. –RC Sproul
"A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." –Mark Twain "
~"If that's not sufficient for you go soak your head."~Faith
Whoever trusts in his own mind is a fool, but he who walks in wisdom will be delivered.~Proverbs 28:26

This message is a reply to:
 Message 92 by Larni, posted 11-03-2016 12:27 PM Larni has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 94 by Larni, posted 11-07-2016 4:11 PM Phat has responded

  
Larni
Member
Posts: 3951
From: Liverpool
Joined: 09-16-2005


(1)
Message 94 of 213 (793973)
11-07-2016 4:11 PM
Reply to: Message 93 by Phat
11-07-2016 12:35 PM


Re: Day 113 and i'm neurotic
While I don't teach mindfulness myself but my close colleagues do and it is very effective at managing problem thoughts (which include thoughts of engaging in addictive behaviour).

Stick with it. As you you practice you get better at it and it's more effective. As an aside it appears that not only can you build willpower by exercising it, it also generalises. So if you exercise willpower to not eat sweets you are also building willpower resist other impulses.

Keep up the good work, mate!


The above ontological example models the zero premise to BB theory. It does so by applying the relative uniformity assumption that the alleged zero event eventually ontologically progressed from the compressed alleged sub-microscopic chaos to bloom/expand into all of the present observable order, more than it models the Biblical record evidence for the existence of Jehovah, the maximal Biblical god designer.
-Attributed to Buzsaw Message 53

The explain to them any scientific investigation that explains the existence of things qualifies as science and as an explanation
-Attributed to Dawn Bertot Message 286

Does a query (thats a question Stile) that uses this physical reality, to look for an answer to its existence and properties become theoretical, considering its deductive conclusions are based against objective verifiable realities.
-Attributed to Dawn Bertot Message 134


This message is a reply to:
 Message 93 by Phat, posted 11-07-2016 12:35 PM Phat has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 95 by Phat, posted 11-11-2016 7:05 AM Larni has not yet responded

    
Phat
Member
Posts: 9892
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.4


(1)
Message 95 of 213 (794183)
11-11-2016 7:05 AM
Reply to: Message 94 by Larni
11-07-2016 4:11 PM


Day 117 Musings
I woke up this morning and felt very mindful. I feel in the moment. I also feel as if I can see my habits from the perspective of an Impartial Spectator a term originally coined by Adam Smith in the 18th century and now used by current researchers into how the Brain changes through sobriety, counter conditioning, and mindfulness.

I owe a debt of gratitude to my religious, theological and philosophical opponents here at EvC. By never agreeing with me, accusing me of "Word Salad" and "Meaningless Gibberish" whenever I defend my religious beliefs, they have forced me to question my beliefs through the lens of an impartial spectator.

This has allowed me to analyse buzzwords and catch phrases from the perspective of non believers and to help me empathize more when I talk with people.

At any rate, I feel that I am thinking outside of my usual box this morning, though I have little reason to change my beliefs...apart from allowing my impartial spectator to test them.

Tonite I go to my 12 step group. Next week i meet with my counselor on Thursday. I am excited to be able to test Carnes theory regarding brain change at the 5th-9th month. I am almost in that zone!


Chance as a real force is a myth. It has no basis in reality and no place in scientific inquiry. For science and philosophy to continue to advance in knowledge, chance must be demythologized once and for all. –RC Sproul
"A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." –Mark Twain "
~"If that's not sufficient for you go soak your head."~Faith
Whoever trusts in his own mind is a fool, but he who walks in wisdom will be delivered.~Proverbs 28:26

This message is a reply to:
 Message 94 by Larni, posted 11-07-2016 4:11 PM Larni has not yet responded

  
Phat
Member
Posts: 9892
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.4


(1)
Message 96 of 213 (794237)
11-12-2016 3:19 AM
Reply to: Message 91 by ringo
11-03-2016 11:59 AM


How Long Will This Take?
I have been asking myself how long recovery is going to take.
They did some research....

The Brain Can Recover- but it Takes Time!!
How the brain recovers from addiction is an exciting and emerging area of research. There is evidence that the brain does recover; in the image below shows the healthy brain on the left, and the brain of a patient who misused methamphetamine in the center and the right. In the center, after one month of abstinence, the brain looks quite different than the healthy brain; however, after 14 months of abstinence, the dopamine transporter levels (DAT) in the reward region of the brain (an indicator of dopamine system function) return to nearly normal (Volkow et al., 2001).


Chance as a real force is a myth. It has no basis in reality and no place in scientific inquiry. For science and philosophy to continue to advance in knowledge, chance must be demythologized once and for all. –RC Sproul
"A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." –Mark Twain "
~"If that's not sufficient for you go soak your head."~Faith
Whoever trusts in his own mind is a fool, but he who walks in wisdom will be delivered.~Proverbs 28:26

This message is a reply to:
 Message 91 by ringo, posted 11-03-2016 11:59 AM ringo has acknowledged this reply

Replies to this message:
 Message 97 by RAZD, posted 11-13-2016 7:44 AM Phat has not yet responded

  
RAZD
Member
Posts: 19087
From: the other end of the sidewalk
Joined: 03-14-2004
Member Rating: 2.5


Message 97 of 213 (794265)
11-13-2016 7:44 AM
Reply to: Message 96 by Phat
11-12-2016 3:19 AM


Re: How Long Will This Take?
I have been asking myself how long recovery is going to take.
They did some research....

cool stuff. I remember reading somewhere that it takes at least 3 years before cigarette smokers can feel free of the desire to smoke. Probably different times for different addictions.

Keep up the good work.


we are limited in our ability to understand
by our ability to understand
RebelAmerican☆Zen☯Deist
... to learn ... to think ... to live ... to laugh ...
to share.


• • • Join the effort to solve medical problems, AIDS/HIV, Cancer and more with Team EvC! (click) • • •

This message is a reply to:
 Message 96 by Phat, posted 11-12-2016 3:19 AM Phat has not yet responded

  
Phat
Member
Posts: 9892
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.4


Message 98 of 213 (794740)
11-23-2016 11:42 AM
Reply to: Message 91 by ringo
11-03-2016 11:59 AM


Day 129
Sidenote to EvC peanut gallery: This is Day 129 of my sobriety. The experts conclude that my brain has reset itself and that I am about to experience a flood of unfamiliar feelings in the coming months as I enter the main part of my recovery phase. I apologize in advance for any redundancy in my religious/philosophical discussions, but it is my way of increasing my understanding of positions different from my own. Thanks. Phat
********************************************************************
Here i am the day before Thanksgiving with no job---no retirement---unemployment about to expire--and no concrete evidence of anything relating to God.
Issues:

  • Belief vs Doubt
  • Fantasy vs Reality
    I am checking on a few leads in regards to employment. Hopefully God does not want to allow me to be poor and/or working in an entry level job. It would seem to be a waste of talent.

    I trust my neighbours but I lock my doors.
    Not every spirit out there is our neighbor.

    I trust Jesus but I test every evangelist,pastor,or teacher.


    Chance as a real force is a myth. It has no basis in reality and no place in scientific inquiry. For science and philosophy to continue to advance in knowledge, chance must be demythologized once and for all. –RC Sproul
    "A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." –Mark Twain "
    ~"If that's not sufficient for you go soak your head."~Faith
    Whoever trusts in his own mind is a fool, but he who walks in wisdom will be delivered.~Proverbs 28:26

    This message is a reply to:
     Message 91 by ringo, posted 11-03-2016 11:59 AM ringo has responded

    Replies to this message:
     Message 99 by ringo, posted 11-23-2016 2:29 PM Phat has acknowledged this reply

      
  • ringo
    Member
    Posts: 13726
    From: frozen wasteland
    Joined: 03-23-2005
    Member Rating: 1.7


    Message 99 of 213 (794742)
    11-23-2016 2:29 PM
    Reply to: Message 98 by Phat
    11-23-2016 11:42 AM


    Re: Day 129
    Phat writes:

    Not every spirit out there is our neighbor.


    Check the parable of the Good Samaritan again. My neighbour might be my worst enemy but then again I might need him some day, or he might need me.
    This message is a reply to:
     Message 98 by Phat, posted 11-23-2016 11:42 AM Phat has acknowledged this reply

      
    Phat
    Member
    Posts: 9892
    From: Denver,Colorado USA
    Joined: 12-30-2003
    Member Rating: 1.4


    Message 100 of 213 (794840)
    11-29-2016 8:42 AM


    Day 135
    I am now in a place that I have never been in before in my life. My earthly security (a union job) has been taken from me. I am unemployed and yet am still too proud to work at just any job---though I have been praying for God to put me where he wants me. Were I not holding on to this one accomplishment--being sober for longer than i have been in twenty years--I would likely be extremely depressed.

    Perhaps because of my healing from my addicted brain, I am optimistic that I will rebound from my job loss. Reality is not kind, however. Because i lost my medical insurance, I lost two of the most potent drugs to fight my type II diabetes. My blood sugars are up, and I am concerned for my long range health.

    It seems that I am being forced to either be responsible or die. I always counted on other things besides myself to take care of me. I still trust Jesus...and am learning more about how to express my faith, but I am also learning a harsh lesson about responsibility and reality. There is no way to avoid it.


    Chance as a real force is a myth. It has no basis in reality and no place in scientific inquiry. For science and philosophy to continue to advance in knowledge, chance must be demythologized once and for all. –RC Sproul
    "A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." –Mark Twain "
    ~"If that's not sufficient for you go soak your head."~Faith
    Whoever trusts in his own mind is a fool, but he who walks in wisdom will be delivered.~Proverbs 28:26

    Replies to this message:
     Message 101 by Tangle, posted 11-29-2016 9:13 AM Phat has responded

      
    Tangle
    Member
    Posts: 5101
    From: UK
    Joined: 10-07-2011
    Member Rating: 2.2


    (1)
    Message 101 of 213 (794843)
    11-29-2016 9:13 AM
    Reply to: Message 100 by Phat
    11-29-2016 8:42 AM


    Re: Day 135
    Jesus doesn't save, you do.

    Je suis Charlie. Je suis Ahmed. Je suis Juif. Je suis Parisien.

    "Life, don't talk to me about life" - Marvin the Paranoid Android

    "Science adjusts it's views based on what's observed.
    Faith is the denial of observation so that Belief can be preserved."
    - Tim Minchin, in his beat poem, Storm.


    This message is a reply to:
     Message 100 by Phat, posted 11-29-2016 8:42 AM Phat has responded

    Replies to this message:
     Message 102 by Phat, posted 11-30-2016 1:25 PM Tangle has not yet responded

      
    Phat
    Member
    Posts: 9892
    From: Denver,Colorado USA
    Joined: 12-30-2003
    Member Rating: 1.4


    (1)
    Message 102 of 213 (794868)
    11-30-2016 1:25 PM
    Reply to: Message 101 by Tangle
    11-29-2016 9:13 AM


    Re: Day 135
    Jesus doesn't save, you do.
    I may do some of the work,but He gives me the strength and he sends others to help me at times. I cannot take full credit for my success nor can I take full blame for my failures.

    What I do know is that I am responsible.

    Jesus has already done His job.

    Day 136 is going well so far...last night I felt suddenly powerless and could have relapsed at any moment. The difference now versus 136 days ago is that back then I was stuck in gear and had to act out. Now, i can see the desires and compulsions rise and fall without having to act on them.

    I am experiencing the feeling of recovery. Do i take full credit for that or is it possible that God helped? (Rhetorical Question)


    Chance as a real force is a myth. It has no basis in reality and no place in scientific inquiry. For science and philosophy to continue to advance in knowledge, chance must be demythologized once and for all. –RC Sproul
    "A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." –Mark Twain "
    ~"If that's not sufficient for you go soak your head."~Faith
    Whoever trusts in his own mind is a fool, but he who walks in wisdom will be delivered.~Proverbs 28:26

    This message is a reply to:
     Message 101 by Tangle, posted 11-29-2016 9:13 AM Tangle has not yet responded

    Replies to this message:
     Message 103 by NoNukes, posted 11-30-2016 8:53 PM Phat has acknowledged this reply
     Message 104 by RAZD, posted 12-01-2016 8:24 AM Phat has responded

      
    NoNukes
    Member
    Posts: 9997
    From: Central NC USA
    Joined: 08-13-2010
    Member Rating: 2.2


    (1)
    Message 103 of 213 (794897)
    11-30-2016 8:53 PM
    Reply to: Message 102 by Phat
    11-30-2016 1:25 PM


    Re: Day 135
    I am experiencing the feeling of recovery. Do i take full credit for that or is it possible that God helped? (Rhetorical Question)

    Please forgive me if I find assigning credit and blame secondary to hearing about how you are doing. Keep pressing forward Phat.

    Edited by NoNukes, : No reason given.


    Under a government which imprisons any unjustly, the true place for a just man is also in prison. Thoreau: Civil Disobedience (1846)

    History will have to record that the greatest tragedy of this period of social transition was not the strident clamor of the bad people, but the appalling silence of the good people. Martin Luther King

    I never considered a difference of opinion in politics, in religion, in philosophy, as cause for withdrawing from a friend. Thomas Jefferson

    Seems to me if its clear that certain things that require ancient dates couldn't possibly be true, we are on our way to throwing out all those ancient dates on the basis of the actual evidence. -- Faith


    This message is a reply to:
     Message 102 by Phat, posted 11-30-2016 1:25 PM Phat has acknowledged this reply

        
    RAZD
    Member
    Posts: 19087
    From: the other end of the sidewalk
    Joined: 03-14-2004
    Member Rating: 2.5


    (1)
    Message 104 of 213 (794904)
    12-01-2016 8:24 AM
    Reply to: Message 102 by Phat
    11-30-2016 1:25 PM


    Re: Day 135
    I am experiencing the feeling of recovery. Do i take full credit for that or is it possible that God helped?

    Or does your faith/belief keep you inspired/going towards recovery?

    Does your church do missionary work?

    :hugs:


    we are limited in our ability to understand
    by our ability to understand
    RebelAmerican☆Zen☯Deist
    ... to learn ... to think ... to live ... to laugh ...
    to share.


    • • • Join the effort to solve medical problems, AIDS/HIV, Cancer and more with Team EvC! (click) • • •

    This message is a reply to:
     Message 102 by Phat, posted 11-30-2016 1:25 PM Phat has responded

    Replies to this message:
     Message 105 by Phat, posted 12-01-2016 4:52 PM RAZD has acknowledged this reply

      
    Phat
    Member
    Posts: 9892
    From: Denver,Colorado USA
    Joined: 12-30-2003
    Member Rating: 1.4


    (5)
    Message 105 of 213 (794926)
    12-01-2016 4:52 PM
    Reply to: Message 104 by RAZD
    12-01-2016 8:24 AM


    Day 137
    My church is very active in the community...particularly the inner city. We have no fancy building---we meet in the gymnasium of a local community center.

    We have a small yet loyal and active congregation of perhaps 30 members.

    Today is Day 137. I went to the Doctor and got advice on getting medicine for lower cost due to my current unemployment. I paid cash out of pocket for the visit---$80.00.

    They gave me some free samples of medicine.

    My sobriety is all that I have. I value it very highly and seriously. It may be all in the mind, but knowing that I can resist my addiction feels really good right now.


    Chance as a real force is a myth. It has no basis in reality and no place in scientific inquiry. For science and philosophy to continue to advance in knowledge, chance must be demythologized once and for all. –RC Sproul
    "A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." –Mark Twain "
    ~"If that's not sufficient for you go soak your head."~Faith
    Whoever trusts in his own mind is a fool, but he who walks in wisdom will be delivered.~Proverbs 28:26

    This message is a reply to:
     Message 104 by RAZD, posted 12-01-2016 8:24 AM RAZD has acknowledged this reply

    Replies to this message:
     Message 106 by mike the wiz, posted 12-03-2016 8:59 AM Phat has responded

      
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