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Author Topic:   Calvinism and Arminianism remix
ringo
Member (Idle past 402 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


Message 40 of 283 (760095)
06-17-2015 3:37 PM
Reply to: Message 29 by Phat
12-14-2014 3:28 PM


Re: on being wiser
Phat writes:
I would argue that data and evidence in and of themselves do not increase theological wisdom.
That sounds like the ultimate cop-out: You don't have to study or even think to receive "theological wisdom". All you have to do is sit in your ivory tower and wait for it to come to you.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 29 by Phat, posted 12-14-2014 3:28 PM Phat has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 41 by Phat, posted 06-18-2015 2:10 AM ringo has replied

  
ringo
Member (Idle past 402 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


Message 42 of 283 (760183)
06-18-2015 11:55 AM
Reply to: Message 41 by Phat
06-18-2015 2:10 AM


Re: on being wiser
Phat writes:
I emphasized "in and of themselves."
No you didn't.
Phat writes:
We always need to think and we do need to study...but if that is all we did, our own efforts...arguably won't get us any closer to GOD.
It wouldn't get us any closer to unicorns either. In fact, they more we study and think, the more it seems that unicorns don't exist - which is why I suggested that you're making an effort not to study or think because you might learn something you don't want to know.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 41 by Phat, posted 06-18-2015 2:10 AM Phat has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 43 by Phat, posted 06-20-2015 11:33 AM ringo has replied

  
ringo
Member (Idle past 402 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


Message 44 of 283 (760340)
06-20-2015 12:00 PM
Reply to: Message 43 by Phat
06-20-2015 11:33 AM


Re: on being wiser
Phat writes:
To many it seems that GOD doesn't exist but I'm never afraid that it is true.
Well, you "seem" to be lost without the idea of a Sky Daddy.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 43 by Phat, posted 06-20-2015 11:33 AM Phat has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 45 by Phat, posted 06-23-2015 5:04 PM ringo has replied

  
ringo
Member (Idle past 402 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


Message 51 of 283 (760761)
06-25-2015 12:10 PM
Reply to: Message 45 by Phat
06-23-2015 5:04 PM


Re: Lost In Space
Phat writes:
Without the idea, nothing would exist.
Isn't that a tad circular?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 45 by Phat, posted 06-23-2015 5:04 PM Phat has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 52 by Phat, posted 06-28-2015 9:14 AM ringo has replied

  
ringo
Member (Idle past 402 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


(1)
Message 53 of 283 (761120)
06-28-2015 2:24 PM
Reply to: Message 52 by Phat
06-28-2015 9:14 AM


Re: Lost In Space
Phat writes:
May the circle be unbroken...
That's "Will the circle be unbroken?"

This message is a reply to:
 Message 52 by Phat, posted 06-28-2015 9:14 AM Phat has seen this message but not replied

  
ringo
Member (Idle past 402 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


Message 56 of 283 (761697)
07-04-2015 12:00 PM
Reply to: Message 55 by Phat
07-04-2015 9:14 AM


Re: Lost In Space
Phat writes:
While I like the idea of eliminating harsh judgement, I would miss the idea of Gods blessing, favor, and/or reward.
And you like the idea of your friend forcing himself on everybody?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 55 by Phat, posted 07-04-2015 9:14 AM Phat has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 57 by Phat, posted 07-04-2015 3:04 PM ringo has replied

  
ringo
Member (Idle past 402 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


(1)
Message 58 of 283 (761776)
07-05-2015 2:19 PM
Reply to: Message 57 by Phat
07-04-2015 3:04 PM


Re: Creator Of Time & Space
Phat writes:
If you shut yourself up in the towers of your mind, how can my friend ever talk to you...except I suppose through me.
Maybe he should talk louder.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 57 by Phat, posted 07-04-2015 3:04 PM Phat has seen this message but not replied

  
ringo
Member (Idle past 402 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


Message 75 of 283 (816439)
08-04-2017 12:18 PM
Reply to: Message 72 by Tangle
08-03-2017 3:06 AM


Re: Spending money Wherever Needed
Tangle writes:
Even the existence of carnivorousness is evil....
Maybe from the zebra's point of view. The lion would probably think a garden salad was evil.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 72 by Tangle, posted 08-03-2017 3:06 AM Tangle has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 76 by Tangle, posted 08-04-2017 1:38 PM ringo has replied

  
ringo
Member (Idle past 402 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


Message 83 of 283 (816498)
08-05-2017 11:33 AM
Reply to: Message 76 by Tangle
08-04-2017 1:38 PM


Re: Spending money Wherever Needed
Tangle writes:
Not if he was a vegetarian.
There are no vegetarian lions. They don't have the stomach for it.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 76 by Tangle, posted 08-04-2017 1:38 PM Tangle has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 84 by Tangle, posted 08-05-2017 11:36 AM ringo has replied

  
ringo
Member (Idle past 402 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


Message 85 of 283 (816501)
08-05-2017 11:39 AM
Reply to: Message 84 by Tangle
08-05-2017 11:36 AM


Re: Spending money Wherever Needed
Tangle writes:
Evolutionary fail
Huh? You mentioned some imaginary vegetarian lions and I pointed out that they're imaginary - i.e. they have no basis in reality. So what are you trying to say?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 84 by Tangle, posted 08-05-2017 11:36 AM Tangle has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 86 by Tangle, posted 08-05-2017 11:45 AM ringo has seen this message but not replied

  
ringo
Member (Idle past 402 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


Message 107 of 283 (816918)
08-13-2017 2:15 PM
Reply to: Message 104 by GDR
08-13-2017 10:21 AM


Re: Why do you care?
GDR writes:
I suggest that Occam's razor insists that we are the result of design by an intelligence.
An unknown and unevidenced all-designing intelligence is just about the definition of a superfluous entity.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 104 by GDR, posted 08-13-2017 10:21 AM GDR has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 109 by GDR, posted 08-13-2017 9:31 PM ringo has replied

  
ringo
Member (Idle past 402 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


Message 119 of 283 (816984)
08-14-2017 12:11 PM
Reply to: Message 109 by GDR
08-13-2017 9:31 PM


Re: Why do you care?
GDR writes:
Getting from mindless particles to a single cell and then to sentient life by an endless series of processes due to an endless string of good fortune, is no simpler than the idea that those processes were the result of a pre-existing intelligence.
Obviously it is.
A string of known processes, no matter how earnestly you want to reject it, is simpler than adding a complex intelligence to it. A driveway is simpler than a driveway with a car in it. A bottle is simpler than a bottle with a firefly in it. A blank page is simpler than a page with a sonnet written on it.
X is simpler than X + Y. Period.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 109 by GDR, posted 08-13-2017 9:31 PM GDR has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 172 by GDR, posted 08-16-2017 4:42 PM ringo has replied

  
ringo
Member (Idle past 402 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


Message 120 of 283 (816985)
08-14-2017 12:14 PM
Reply to: Message 117 by New Cat's Eye
08-14-2017 10:39 AM


Re: Why do you care?
New Cat's Eye writes:
Without competition there is no growth. Complete stasis sounds worse to me.
To me it sounds like how believers describe Heaven.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 117 by New Cat's Eye, posted 08-14-2017 10:39 AM New Cat's Eye has not replied

  
ringo
Member (Idle past 402 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


Message 136 of 283 (817072)
08-15-2017 12:01 PM
Reply to: Message 127 by Faith
08-14-2017 6:27 PM


Re: nope it's the mainstream view
Faith writes:
As I said, it's the majority view and always has been.
In the first half of my life I was in a lot of churches, dozens at least. All of them considered themselves Bible literalists. All of them believed the Creation story (though there may have been some old-earth creationists). I don't recall ANY of them having your idea of "the Fall". As far as I can recall, they all believed that the story in Genesis 3 had to do with man's spiritual relationship with God - i.e. there was no suggestion of "damage".
Maybe they actually read Genesis 3:22-23
quote:
And the Lord God said, Behold, the man is become as one of us, to know good and evil: and now, lest he put forth his hand, and take also of the tree of life, and eat, and live for ever: Therefore the Lord God sent him forth from the garden of Eden, to till the ground from whence he was taken.
Adam and Eve didn't fall. They became more like God. They grew up and left the nest.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 127 by Faith, posted 08-14-2017 6:27 PM Faith has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 138 by Phat, posted 08-15-2017 12:09 PM ringo has replied
 Message 144 by Faith, posted 08-15-2017 12:58 PM ringo has replied

  
ringo
Member (Idle past 402 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


Message 139 of 283 (817077)
08-15-2017 12:11 PM
Reply to: Message 138 by Phat
08-15-2017 12:09 PM


Re: nope it's the mainstream view
Phat writes:
And then their son Cain killed their other son. Seems the parents were ineffective at teaching responsibility and love.
So was God.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 138 by Phat, posted 08-15-2017 12:09 PM Phat has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 140 by Phat, posted 08-15-2017 12:18 PM ringo has replied

  
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