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Author Topic:   Calvinism and Arminianism remix
kbertsche
Member (Idle past 2121 days)
Posts: 1427
From: San Jose, CA, USA
Joined: 05-10-2007


(1)
Message 229 of 283 (817607)
08-18-2017 3:07 PM
Reply to: Message 225 by ringo
08-18-2017 12:01 PM


Re: The Problem Of Evil
ringo writes:
Poor helpless god.
There seems to be an implicit, unstated assumption behind this (and most) discussions of "the problem of evil": that God's highest priority is to reduce our human suffering. Thus if God does NOT reduce human suffering, He is either evil or impotent.
But what if God's highest priority is something else? Something on a longer and grander scale, like vanquishing ALL evil at the end of time? What if His priority for us, now, is not to reduce suffering, but to effect personal growth? Perhaps suffering is needed for our personal growth, just as we know that physical pain is a helpful warning to protect us from physical harm?

"Science without religion is lame, religion without science is blind." — Albert Einstein
I am very astonished that the scientific picture of the real world around me is very deficient. It gives us a lot of factual information, puts all of our experience in a magnificently consistent order, but it is ghastly silent about all and sundry that is really near to our heart, that really matters to us. It cannot tell us a word about red and blue, bitter and sweet, physical pain and physical delight; it knows nothing of beautiful and ugly, good or bad, God and eternity. Science sometimes pretends to answer questions in these domains, but the answers are very often so silly that we are not inclined to take them seriously. — Erwin Schroedinger

This message is a reply to:
 Message 225 by ringo, posted 08-18-2017 12:01 PM ringo has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 230 by Tangle, posted 08-18-2017 3:20 PM kbertsche has replied
 Message 247 by ringo, posted 08-19-2017 12:04 PM kbertsche has replied

  
kbertsche
Member (Idle past 2121 days)
Posts: 1427
From: San Jose, CA, USA
Joined: 05-10-2007


Message 236 of 283 (817642)
08-18-2017 8:15 PM
Reply to: Message 230 by Tangle
08-18-2017 3:20 PM


Re: The Problem Of Evil
Tangle writes:
What if, being god and all, he just stopped suffering right now?
You seem to view God as a personal genii who exists only to serve you. Fortunately, that's not what the true God is like!

"Science without religion is lame, religion without science is blind." — Albert Einstein
I am very astonished that the scientific picture of the real world around me is very deficient. It gives us a lot of factual information, puts all of our experience in a magnificently consistent order, but it is ghastly silent about all and sundry that is really near to our heart, that really matters to us. It cannot tell us a word about red and blue, bitter and sweet, physical pain and physical delight; it knows nothing of beautiful and ugly, good or bad, God and eternity. Science sometimes pretends to answer questions in these domains, but the answers are very often so silly that we are not inclined to take them seriously. — Erwin Schroedinger

This message is a reply to:
 Message 230 by Tangle, posted 08-18-2017 3:20 PM Tangle has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 239 by Tangle, posted 08-19-2017 2:48 AM kbertsche has not replied

  
kbertsche
Member (Idle past 2121 days)
Posts: 1427
From: San Jose, CA, USA
Joined: 05-10-2007


Message 257 of 283 (817772)
08-20-2017 6:37 AM
Reply to: Message 247 by ringo
08-19-2017 12:04 PM


Re: The Problem Of Evil
ringo writes:
Who gives a damn about the "end of time" even if there was such a thing? Why should people suffer today for some supposed end-of-time benefit?
Such a mature and selfless attitude! You sound like a four-year-old who must have his marshmallow NOW rather than waiting for something better.
ringo writes:
As I already said to Phat, a lot of people would probably rather give up the personal growth. If God is so big on choice, why doesn't He give us that one?
Ditto. A four-year-old doesn't care about personal growth, either.

"Science without religion is lame, religion without science is blind." — Albert Einstein
I am very astonished that the scientific picture of the real world around me is very deficient. It gives us a lot of factual information, puts all of our experience in a magnificently consistent order, but it is ghastly silent about all and sundry that is really near to our heart, that really matters to us. It cannot tell us a word about red and blue, bitter and sweet, physical pain and physical delight; it knows nothing of beautiful and ugly, good or bad, God and eternity. Science sometimes pretends to answer questions in these domains, but the answers are very often so silly that we are not inclined to take them seriously. — Erwin Schroedinger

This message is a reply to:
 Message 247 by ringo, posted 08-19-2017 12:04 PM ringo has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 259 by Phat, posted 08-20-2017 10:38 AM kbertsche has not replied
 Message 263 by ringo, posted 08-20-2017 2:44 PM kbertsche has not replied

  
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