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Author Topic:   Climate Change Denier comes in from the cold: SCIENCE!!!
Faith
Member
Posts: 29837
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001
Member Rating: 1.2


Message 466 of 510 (830305)
03-26-2018 2:25 PM
Reply to: Message 464 by ringo
03-26-2018 12:27 PM


Re: Climate Science Special Report
The God of the Bible was big on meat. Remember how He rejected Cain's veggie offering? Remember the Tabernacle and its accessories? The altar was a barbecue, not a salad bar.

See Message 403

Edited by Faith, : No reason given.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 464 by ringo, posted 03-26-2018 12:27 PM ringo has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 467 by frako, posted 03-26-2018 5:20 PM Faith has not yet responded
 Message 468 by ringo, posted 03-27-2018 11:40 AM Faith has not yet responded

    
frako
Member
Posts: 2792
From: slovenija
Joined: 09-04-2010
Member Rating: 3.2


Message 467 of 510 (830315)
03-26-2018 5:20 PM
Reply to: Message 466 by Faith
03-26-2018 2:25 PM


Re: Climate Science Special Report
Digesting milk is a super power only 30% of the population have after they reach adulthood. A mutation if you will.

Christianity, One woman's lie about an affair that got seriously out of hand

What are the Christians gonna do to me ..... Forgive me, good luck with that.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 466 by Faith, posted 03-26-2018 2:25 PM Faith has not yet responded

    
ringo
Member
Posts: 15404
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005
Member Rating: 1.8


Message 468 of 510 (830340)
03-27-2018 11:40 AM
Reply to: Message 466 by Faith
03-26-2018 2:25 PM


Re: Climate Science Special Report
Faith writes:

God told Noah after the Flood to eat meats so something must have changed between then and now to make meat an undesirable food. Message 403


That's always the way it is with you, isn't it? If reality doesn't fit the Bible, reality must be wrong.

An honest discussion is more of a peer review than a pep rally. My toughest critics here are the people who agree with me. -- ringo

This message is a reply to:
 Message 466 by Faith, posted 03-26-2018 2:25 PM Faith has not yet responded

  
Taq
Member
Posts: 7575
Joined: 03-06-2009
Member Rating: 3.6


Message 469 of 510 (830361)
03-27-2018 5:47 PM
Reply to: Message 455 by Faith
03-26-2018 8:43 AM


Re: Climate Science Special Report
Faith writes:

Does it cover the American food industry, especially the meat industry, which according to many of the films I've mentioned on the natural foods thread is the biggest contributor to climate change of all of them.

That seems highly unlikely.


reference

It is also strange for a natural foods documentary to argue against meats which are natural foods.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 455 by Faith, posted 03-26-2018 8:43 AM Faith has not yet responded

  
Taq
Member
Posts: 7575
Joined: 03-06-2009
Member Rating: 3.6


Message 470 of 510 (830362)
03-27-2018 5:52 PM
Reply to: Message 465 by Faith
03-26-2018 2:19 PM


Re: Climate Science Special Report
Faith writes:

CO2 is easy, though: plant plant plant those gardens, everybody plant a tree, or one in a hundred of us plant a tree, over time that would accomplish a lot.

It wouldn't accomplish enough. The world average is 4 tons of carbon released per person. This means that you would have to produce 4,000 kilos of new biomass per year that is then buried and never eaten or used. Americans release 20 metric tons per year. I doubt we could ever plant enough trees to soak up all of the carbon we are currently using.

The animals are shown in these films packed tightly together, standing ankle deep in their own manure, which puts out a huge amount of gasses all by itself, not to mention contributing to the food poisoning outbreaks that require the agribusinesses to load the animals with antibiotics which we end up eating, contributing to the growth of resistant bacteria and so on and so forth. but I guess that's sliding off topic again.

If they were out in the wild all it would do is spread the manure around. Herbivores don't naturally hold their poo in.

Edited by Taq, : No reason given.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 465 by Faith, posted 03-26-2018 2:19 PM Faith has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 471 by Faith, posted 03-27-2018 6:30 PM Taq has responded

  
Faith
Member
Posts: 29837
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001
Member Rating: 1.2


Message 471 of 510 (830363)
03-27-2018 6:30 PM
Reply to: Message 470 by Taq
03-27-2018 5:52 PM


Re: Climate Science Special Report
f they were out in the wild all it would do is spread the manure around. Herbivores don't naturally hold their poo in.

Someone in one of these films said that if cattle are free to roam and eat grass the e coli isn't a problem the way it is in confined quarters where their hides get splattered with it. And the grass itself plays some role in this though I didn't quite get what.

Yes, meat is natural too, but that's why I put "plant-based" in parentheses to explain how the term is being used.

Edited by Faith, : No reason given.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 470 by Taq, posted 03-27-2018 5:52 PM Taq has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 472 by frako, posted 03-28-2018 5:41 AM Faith has responded
 Message 475 by Taq, posted 03-28-2018 11:57 AM Faith has not yet responded

    
frako
Member
Posts: 2792
From: slovenija
Joined: 09-04-2010
Member Rating: 3.2


Message 472 of 510 (830379)
03-28-2018 5:41 AM
Reply to: Message 471 by Faith
03-27-2018 6:30 PM


Re: Climate Science Special Report
Someone in one of these films said that if cattle are free to roam and eat grass the e coli isn't a problem the way it is in confined quarters where their hides get splattered with it. And the grass itself plays some role in this though I didn't quite get what.

Well duh, in the worst factory farms they have to feed the animals antibiotics just so they can survive the horrible conditions they are put in. Grass does pay a role cows sheep, goats and other grazing animals are built to eat grass, but if you feed them grain they get fatter faster.

Thing is we dont have nearly enough grazing land to provide enough meat for everyone, put too many animals on the same pasture and its no different then having them holed up in a pen knee deep in their own shit. probably worse since alot of parasites have a life cycle that makes them go trough dygestive systems to get eaten up again later.

I had 3 horses in a 12 000 m2 pasture and it was barely large enough to not get turned in to mud, with the exceptions where the horses hung out most of the time where the pasture was just mud. but there was enough grass to feed them trough the year there, i still had to make 350 square bales of hay for the winter.

If we farm that way to get healthy meat you can expect a jucy stake to cost 100$


Christianity, One woman's lie about an affair that got seriously out of hand

What are the Christians gonna do to me ..... Forgive me, good luck with that.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 471 by Faith, posted 03-27-2018 6:30 PM Faith has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 473 by Faith, posted 03-28-2018 8:38 AM frako has responded

    
Faith
Member
Posts: 29837
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001
Member Rating: 1.2


Message 473 of 510 (830381)
03-28-2018 8:38 AM
Reply to: Message 472 by frako
03-28-2018 5:41 AM


Re: Climate Science Special Report
Someone in one of these films said that if cattle are free to roam and eat grass the e coli isn't a problem the way it is in confined quarters where their hides get splattered with it. And the grass itself plays some role in this though I didn't quite get what.

Well duh, in the worst factory farms they have to feed the animals antibiotics just so they can survive the horrible conditions they are put in.

Yes I know, that's the point.

Grass does pay a role cows sheep, goats and other grazing animals are built to eat grass, but if you feed them grain they get fatter faster.

Yes, but they said that something about eating grass in itself got rid of e coli. And that this can't be done because it's not economically feasible, as you are saying. But the point is it's more than the roaming space, it's the grass itself, and that's what I didn't quite follow in the film.

Thing is we dont have nearly enough grazing land to provide enough meat for everyone, put too many animals on the same pasture and its no different then having them holed up in a pen knee deep in their own shit. probably worse since alot of parasites have a life cycle that makes them go trough dygestive systems to get eaten up again later.

Yes the scarcity of land is the big problem, but that's why it would help a great deal if plant foods became the mainstay of people's diets in the west where we have this problem.

The enormous number of cattle and other animals needed in the west is traced to the growth of the fast food industry over the last few decades..

Yes the cost of meat would go up as consumption went down, at least at first, but that would just encourage more plant eating, all in all a good thing.

Edited by Faith, : No reason given.

Edited by Faith, : No reason given.

Edited by Faith, : No reason given.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 472 by frako, posted 03-28-2018 5:41 AM frako has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 474 by frako, posted 03-28-2018 10:16 AM Faith has responded

    
frako
Member
Posts: 2792
From: slovenija
Joined: 09-04-2010
Member Rating: 3.2


Message 474 of 510 (830386)
03-28-2018 10:16 AM
Reply to: Message 473 by Faith
03-28-2018 8:38 AM


Re: Climate Science Special Report
I think the world will probably adopt the chinese model once climate change really starts to mess with our food production. You know, everything is good to eat, snakes, scorpions, grasshopers....

As for fruits and veggies yea they'r good for you but not the ones from the supermarket, especially the american supermarket. My treas don't produce such shiny and perfect apples that you can get there but i bet my balls that mine are 100X healthier. Tomato's in the supermarket are practically water while home grown ones are so frim you can bight in to them like an apple and you dont have your face covered in its jucies.... But if the food industry switched to this kind of healthy food production the prices would skyrocket and people would starve.

Its not just meat production that is killing our planet the whole food industry is. My fruit trees have grass growing underneath them, the treas that put fruits on your supermarket shelves have nothing growing underneath theyr sprayed with weed and insect killers so nothing can interfere with the growth of the fruits or veggies.

The same goes for almost everything you find on the supermarket shelves its capitalism baby.

Sure there are ways for even city folk to grow their own veggies, put a bag of soil on your balcony punch a few hols in it and place seeds inside it will grow beautifully but noone has a 0.5 ha balcony in the city to have enough space to produce enough food for himself. Such measures will soon be necessary but its just a bandage on an infected wound. There are simply too many of us.


Christianity, One woman's lie about an affair that got seriously out of hand

What are the Christians gonna do to me ..... Forgive me, good luck with that.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 473 by Faith, posted 03-28-2018 8:38 AM Faith has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 476 by Faith, posted 03-28-2018 11:59 AM frako has responded

    
Taq
Member
Posts: 7575
Joined: 03-06-2009
Member Rating: 3.6


Message 475 of 510 (830387)
03-28-2018 11:57 AM
Reply to: Message 471 by Faith
03-27-2018 6:30 PM


Re: Climate Science Special Report
Faith writes:

Someone in one of these films said that if cattle are free to roam and eat grass the e coli isn't a problem the way it is in confined quarters where their hides get splattered with it. And the grass itself plays some role in this though I didn't quite get what.

I don't see how E. coli being splashed onto hides poses a problem for releasing greenhouse gases, and the rest needs some fleshing out in order to be coherent.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 471 by Faith, posted 03-27-2018 6:30 PM Faith has not yet responded

  
Faith
Member
Posts: 29837
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001
Member Rating: 1.2


Message 476 of 510 (830388)
03-28-2018 11:59 AM
Reply to: Message 474 by frako
03-28-2018 10:16 AM


Re: Climate Science Special Report
Supermarket will have to do if you can't grow your own, though I certainly agree there are drawbacks, that's what all these films I've been talking about on the plant-based thread show.

But you keep totalizing the problem and acting as if we only have five minutes to drastically change our habits. We don't all have to grow all our food all at once, we can do it little by little, whoever can and however we can. and the more of us do it and reject the supermarket offerings the more those offerings are bound to improve too, because they are consumer-driven.

(What does "ha" mean? It's a measurement I guess but how large is it?)

HERE'S a page about the new gizmo called the tower garden, that grows fruits and vegetables "aeroponically" in a vertical space. People even have them in their living rooms, but a patio or balcony is better. Better yet is some yard space of course, but we do what we can however we can and figure if it's a good idea it will grow on people over time.

I keep looking for the perfect short presentation of Annette Larkins and her garden but haven't been able to find one, so here's unfortunately a very long one that nobody will watch, but it starts out showing her garden. The guy talks way too much so it's slow going too. Oh well. He interviews her midway in the film.

She started slowly changing her whole lifestyle 44 years ago and filling her yard with growing foods was part of that. She is now a raw vegan who gets most of her food from the garden. She's 74 in this video, last year I think, so whatever she's doing is clearly very good for her.

Edited by Faith, : No reason given.

Edited by Faith, : No reason given.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 474 by frako, posted 03-28-2018 10:16 AM frako has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 477 by Taq, posted 03-28-2018 12:01 PM Faith has responded
 Message 480 by frako, posted 03-28-2018 12:54 PM Faith has not yet responded

    
Taq
Member
Posts: 7575
Joined: 03-06-2009
Member Rating: 3.6


Message 477 of 510 (830389)
03-28-2018 12:01 PM
Reply to: Message 476 by Faith
03-28-2018 11:59 AM


Re: Climate Science Special Report
Faith writes:

Supermarket will have to do if you can't grow your own, though I certainly agree there are drawbacks, that's what all these films I've been talking about on the plant-based thread show.

But what does this have to do with the amount of carbon being released into the atmosphere?


This message is a reply to:
 Message 476 by Faith, posted 03-28-2018 11:59 AM Faith has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 478 by Faith, posted 03-28-2018 12:06 PM Taq has responded
 Message 481 by frako, posted 03-28-2018 12:57 PM Taq has responded

  
Faith
Member
Posts: 29837
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001
Member Rating: 1.2


Message 478 of 510 (830390)
03-28-2018 12:06 PM
Reply to: Message 477 by Taq
03-28-2018 12:01 PM


Re: Climate Science Special Report
Yes, we're getting off topic but there is the connection that agribusiness does contribute to climate problems so we're discussing possible solutions to that part of the problem. However, I'll take it all back to the plant foods thread now.

Edited by Faith, : No reason given.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 477 by Taq, posted 03-28-2018 12:01 PM Taq has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 479 by Taq, posted 03-28-2018 12:40 PM Faith has not yet responded

    
Taq
Member
Posts: 7575
Joined: 03-06-2009
Member Rating: 3.6


Message 479 of 510 (830393)
03-28-2018 12:40 PM
Reply to: Message 478 by Faith
03-28-2018 12:06 PM


Re: Climate Science Special Report
Faith writes:

Yes, we're getting off topic but there is the connection that agribusiness does contribute to climate problems so we're discussing possible solutions to that part of the problem.

It would seem to me that there could be an economy of scale with respect to agribusiness. You have to calculate the amount of carbon released per unit of food, and I would suspect that agribusiness is much more efficient in this respect than small farms or backyard gardens.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 478 by Faith, posted 03-28-2018 12:06 PM Faith has not yet responded

  
frako
Member
Posts: 2792
From: slovenija
Joined: 09-04-2010
Member Rating: 3.2


Message 480 of 510 (830396)
03-28-2018 12:54 PM
Reply to: Message 476 by Faith
03-28-2018 11:59 AM


Re: Climate Science Special Report
But you keep totalizing the problem and acting as if we only have five minutes to drastically change our habits. We don't all have to grow all our food all at once, we can do it little by little, whoever can and however we can. and the more of us do it and reject the supermarket offerings the more those offerings are bound to improve too, because they are consumer-driven.

Because it is already too late. The way we are farming is ruining the soil, climate change alredy has negative effects on our crop production, it is far to late for any soft solution.

(What does "ha" mean? It's a measurement I guess but how large is it?)

Hektar or 10 ars LOL or 0,5 ha is 53819.55 square feet.

HERE'S a page about the new gizmo called the tower garden, that grows fruits and vegetables "aeroponically" in a vertical space. People even have them in their living rooms, but a patio or balcony is better. Better yet is some yard space of course, but we do what we can however we can and figure if it's a good idea it will grow on people over time.

Thats the method where you spray roots with nutrient rich water right those plants grow fast but they cant be nearly as healthy for you as those grown the natural way. And given that cities already face problems with water suply if every apartment grew palnts this way there would be too little water to go around in just about every city in the world.


Christianity, One woman's lie about an affair that got seriously out of hand

What are the Christians gonna do to me ..... Forgive me, good luck with that.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 476 by Faith, posted 03-28-2018 11:59 AM Faith has not yet responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 489 by Percy, posted 03-28-2018 8:51 PM frako has responded

    
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