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Author Topic:   What to say if you met God/god/Gods/gods
jar
Member
Posts: 29149
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004
Member Rating: 2.8


Message 46 of 116 (763110)
07-21-2015 7:58 AM
Reply to: Message 45 by Phat
07-21-2015 6:50 AM


Re: My Question for God
Phat writes:

Does this mean that you see no human advantage---in general---with God doing things for us?

Not just no human advantage but rather a significant disadvantage.

Phat writes:

I prefer a God who favors humanity.

Do you? Why do you favor a God that prefers one of his children more than the others? Does he favor the atheist and Muslim and Satanist and Hindi and Jew and Taoist the same as the Christian?

Phat writes:

Perhaps I grew up with the idea that a parent who favors(dare I say spoils) their children is preferred over a cold one who boots the birds out of the nest and says sink or swim.

I don't doubt that is how you grew up. Perhaps it even shows.

But those are not the only options. A third type of parent teaches the child how to do stuff. Instead of changing the tire for the child teaches the child how to change the tire; instead of setting up the tent teaches the child how to select the right spot and set up the tent; instead of starting the fire teaches the child how to start a fire; instead of washing the clothes teaches the child how to do laundry; instead of fixing dinner teaches the child how to cook.

And note you said "a cold one" in your example as though booting the birds out of the nest cannot be an act of love.


Anyone so limited that they can only spell a word one way is severely handicapped!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 45 by Phat, posted 07-21-2015 6:50 AM Phat has acknowledged this reply

  
Stile
Member
Posts: 2924
From: Ontario, Canada
Joined: 12-02-2004
Member Rating: 3.8


(1)
Message 47 of 116 (763112)
07-21-2015 8:42 AM
Reply to: Message 44 by Phat
07-21-2015 6:38 AM


Re: My Question for God
Phat writes:

IF God exists and we were able to commune/communicate with Him, would we be more interested in knowing Him and His mind (and heart)or would we be merely content with answers to our problems...as if he were but a giant political boss who was responsible for the status quo.

That seems like a loaded/unfair/unnecessary dichotomy you've suggested.

If it were possible to chat with God in some long-term fashion, I'd be very interested in learning His story.
I would also be interested in learning the parts of His story (if any) that affected us.

I don't see why it has to be an either/or thing. Why not both?


This message is a reply to:
 Message 44 by Phat, posted 07-21-2015 6:38 AM Phat has responded

Replies to this message:
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Phat
Member
Posts: 9501
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 2.3


Message 48 of 116 (763120)
07-21-2015 11:16 AM
Reply to: Message 47 by Stile
07-21-2015 8:42 AM


Re: My Question for God
Stile writes:

I don't see why it has to be an either/or thing. Why not both?

Good point. I too would want to get to know Him and not impose demands of responsibility on His character until and unless I knew Him better. See...this is my whole point in our other thread. God does not have foreknowledge of our future actions. God only has knowledge of our present actions. God is eternally present.

Chance as a real force is a myth. It has no basis in reality and no place in scientific inquiry. For science and philosophy to continue to advance in knowledge, chance must be demythologized once and for all. –RC Sproul
"A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." –Mark Twain

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foreveryoung
Member (Idle past 18 days)
Posts: 879
Joined: 12-26-2011


Message 49 of 116 (763294)
07-23-2015 12:51 PM


So God is a sick bastard because of gross injustice in the world? What would a God who is worthy of your worship do about it?
Replies to this message:
 Message 50 by ringo, posted 07-23-2015 12:58 PM foreveryoung has responded
 Message 54 by New Cat's Eye, posted 07-23-2015 1:40 PM foreveryoung has responded

    
ringo
Member
Posts: 13332
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005
Member Rating: 3.1


Message 50 of 116 (763295)
07-23-2015 12:58 PM
Reply to: Message 49 by foreveryoung
07-23-2015 12:51 PM


foreveryoung writes:

So God is a sick bastard because of gross injustice in the world? What would a God who is worthy of your worship do about it?


Would a politician who ignored the gross injustice in the world be worthy of your vote?
This message is a reply to:
 Message 49 by foreveryoung, posted 07-23-2015 12:51 PM foreveryoung has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 51 by foreveryoung, posted 07-23-2015 1:12 PM ringo has responded

  
foreveryoung
Member (Idle past 18 days)
Posts: 879
Joined: 12-26-2011


(1)
Message 51 of 116 (763297)
07-23-2015 1:12 PM
Reply to: Message 50 by ringo
07-23-2015 12:58 PM


You are assuming God is ignoring injustice. Once God starts to visibly intervene, his existence is beyond doubt. That changes the whole ball game. Everyone would believe. I don't have a direct line to heaven but my intuition tells me God is looking for a certain kind of existence and a world that has seen him directly in action would act differently and I suspect not so much for the good.....possibly worse than current injustices.
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 Message 50 by ringo, posted 07-23-2015 12:58 PM ringo has responded

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 Message 52 by ringo, posted 07-23-2015 1:18 PM foreveryoung has responded

    
ringo
Member
Posts: 13332
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005
Member Rating: 3.1


Message 52 of 116 (763298)
07-23-2015 1:18 PM
Reply to: Message 51 by foreveryoung
07-23-2015 1:12 PM


foreveryoung writes:

You are assuming God is ignoring injustice. Once God starts to visibly intervene, his existence is beyond doubt. That changes the whole ball game. Everyone would believe.


The OP assumes the existence of God, so that IS the ballgame.

So feel free to answer the question: Would you vote for a politician who acted (or failed to act) like God?


This message is a reply to:
 Message 51 by foreveryoung, posted 07-23-2015 1:12 PM foreveryoung has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 53 by foreveryoung, posted 07-23-2015 1:28 PM ringo has responded
 Message 83 by Phat, posted 01-22-2017 1:20 AM ringo has responded

  
foreveryoung
Member (Idle past 18 days)
Posts: 879
Joined: 12-26-2011


Message 53 of 116 (763300)
07-23-2015 1:28 PM
Reply to: Message 52 by ringo
07-23-2015 1:18 PM


Yes the OP assumes the existence of God. God existing and allowing injustice does not mean he is ignoring injustice. It could mean there are very good reasons for him allowing it. A politician is not responsible for creating the world. He has powers to do things about problems. I've also noticed that some of the laws passed created to alleviate problems create a whole new set of problems. I actually like a government that doesn't do a damn thing. So, I would probably elect the politician who sat on his ass all day over the guy arrogant enough to think he can make a difference without turning this country more totalitarian than it already is.
This message is a reply to:
 Message 52 by ringo, posted 07-23-2015 1:18 PM ringo has responded

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New Cat's Eye
Member
Posts: 11578
From: near St. Louis
Joined: 01-27-2005
Member Rating: 2.5


Message 54 of 116 (763302)
07-23-2015 1:40 PM
Reply to: Message 49 by foreveryoung
07-23-2015 12:51 PM


So God is a sick bastard because of gross injustice in the world? What would a God who is worthy of your worship do about it?

Uh, make justice?


This message is a reply to:
 Message 49 by foreveryoung, posted 07-23-2015 12:51 PM foreveryoung has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 55 by foreveryoung, posted 07-23-2015 2:00 PM New Cat's Eye has responded

  
foreveryoung
Member (Idle past 18 days)
Posts: 879
Joined: 12-26-2011


Message 55 of 116 (763304)
07-23-2015 2:00 PM
Reply to: Message 54 by New Cat's Eye
07-23-2015 1:40 PM


How would you create perfect justice without having everyone in prison or dead? To me, everyone has there own sense of what true justice is. The world could seem just to you and hellish for another.
This message is a reply to:
 Message 54 by New Cat's Eye, posted 07-23-2015 1:40 PM New Cat's Eye has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 56 by New Cat's Eye, posted 07-23-2015 2:10 PM foreveryoung has responded

    
New Cat's Eye
Member
Posts: 11578
From: near St. Louis
Joined: 01-27-2005
Member Rating: 2.5


Message 56 of 116 (763305)
07-23-2015 2:10 PM
Reply to: Message 55 by foreveryoung
07-23-2015 2:00 PM


How would you create perfect justice without having everyone in prison or dead?

With imperfect justice.

To me, everyone has there own sense of what true justice is. The world could seem just to you and hellish for another.

Well, there could be a little more than we have now, which is no justice at all.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 55 by foreveryoung, posted 07-23-2015 2:00 PM foreveryoung has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 57 by foreveryoung, posted 07-23-2015 4:08 PM New Cat's Eye has responded

  
foreveryoung
Member (Idle past 18 days)
Posts: 879
Joined: 12-26-2011


Message 57 of 116 (763322)
07-23-2015 4:08 PM
Reply to: Message 56 by New Cat's Eye
07-23-2015 2:10 PM


Incorrect. There is some justice. The fact that there is civilization requires a certain amount of justice. The reason justice is not more perfect than it is is because of evil in men whether through acts of injustice or nothing being done by those who can do something.
This message is a reply to:
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New Cat's Eye
Member
Posts: 11578
From: near St. Louis
Joined: 01-27-2005
Member Rating: 2.5


Message 58 of 116 (763340)
07-23-2015 6:43 PM
Reply to: Message 57 by foreveryoung
07-23-2015 4:08 PM


or nothing being done by those who can do something.

Like God, which is why some people don't think He is worthy of worship. Especially considering His level of capability.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 57 by foreveryoung, posted 07-23-2015 4:08 PM foreveryoung has responded

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 Message 59 by foreveryoung, posted 07-23-2015 8:06 PM New Cat's Eye has responded

  
foreveryoung
Member (Idle past 18 days)
Posts: 879
Joined: 12-26-2011


Message 59 of 116 (763348)
07-23-2015 8:06 PM
Reply to: Message 58 by New Cat's Eye
07-23-2015 6:43 PM


If a human does something about it, the outcome is usually good. If God does something, he would have to reveal himself. That would cause its own problems as I already stated. All he can do is work through people that he speaks to. A lot of that already happens and so God really is intervening but you don't see it because you don't believe God speaks to people. A lot of evil occurs because of what people believe. There are people out there trying to change beliefs with limited success. A lot of bad things occur because God used evolution and other natural processes to create this world. We get cancer sometimes because of mutations and yet there would not be sustained life on this earth without it. Plate tectonics causes earthquakes and volcanoes and yet our world would be as lifeless as the moon without it. In other words, there is some evil built into the system that brings a much better reality in the aftermath for the vast majority of humanity.
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 Message 58 by New Cat's Eye, posted 07-23-2015 6:43 PM New Cat's Eye has responded

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 Message 60 by New Cat's Eye, posted 07-23-2015 8:14 PM foreveryoung has responded
 Message 62 by Dr Adequate, posted 07-24-2015 1:08 AM foreveryoung has responded

    
New Cat's Eye
Member
Posts: 11578
From: near St. Louis
Joined: 01-27-2005
Member Rating: 2.5


Message 60 of 116 (763350)
07-23-2015 8:14 PM
Reply to: Message 59 by foreveryoung
07-23-2015 8:06 PM


In other words, there is some evil built into the system that brings a much better reality in the aftermath for the vast majority of humanity.

And some people look at the world and think that God could be doing a better job, then they conclude that He must not be worthy of worship.

You asked:

quote:
So God is a sick bastard because of gross injustice in the world? What would a God who is worthy of your worship do about it?

Isn't it apparent that being worthy of worship would be doing a better job at justice, given the constraints of your questions?

Or were you asking about some specific particulars?


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 Message 59 by foreveryoung, posted 07-23-2015 8:06 PM foreveryoung has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 61 by foreveryoung, posted 07-23-2015 8:25 PM New Cat's Eye has responded

  
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