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Author Topic:   Earth science curriculum tailored to fit wavering fundamentalists
Genomicus
Member
Posts: 844
Joined: 02-15-2012
Member Rating: 3.4


Message 1021 of 1053 (782933)
04-30-2016 10:39 PM
Reply to: Message 1020 by ThinAirDesigns
04-30-2016 10:24 PM


Re: Bristlecone pine question.
Well, off the top of my head -- without doing any further research on the phylogeny of these taxa -- just look at the names and apply standard taxonomic naming schemes.

Pinus aristata and Pinus longaeva would be two separate species, according to taxonomic naming system. They belong to the same genus, Pinus. But since they differ in the second part of their name, they'd belong to different species.

Contrast this with Homo sapiens sapiens and Homo sapiens neanderthalensis (used by some anthropologists to describe the Neanderthal lineage); here, modern humans and Neanderthals belong to the same species but different subspecies.


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ThinAirDesigns
Member
Posts: 564
Joined: 02-12-2015


Message 1022 of 1053 (782934)
04-30-2016 10:52 PM
Reply to: Message 1021 by Genomicus
04-30-2016 10:39 PM


Re: Bristlecone pine question.
And your position would be consistent with the Wiki -- but inconsistent with the Forest Service link and the Sciencemag link.

It is this discrepancy that I am trying to reconcile.

Thanks
JB


This message is a reply to:
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PaulK
Member
Posts: 12770
Joined: 01-10-2003
Member Rating: 3.0


Message 1023 of 1053 (782942)
05-01-2016 3:55 AM
Reply to: Message 1020 by ThinAirDesigns
04-30-2016 10:24 PM


Re: Bristlecone pine question.
Looking at the links it seems to me that the Bristlecone Pine was originally classified as one species Pinus aristata. At some point after the writing of the Science article (in 1968) it was recognised the the population previously denoted var. longaeva was a distinct species. The "synonym" in the Forestry Service article refers to the older nomenclature - while the article proper recognises it as a separate species.
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ThinAirDesigns
Member
Posts: 564
Joined: 02-12-2015


Message 1024 of 1053 (782977)
05-01-2016 7:31 PM
Reply to: Message 1023 by PaulK
05-01-2016 3:55 AM


Re: Bristlecone pine question.
Thanks PaulK. That may well be the answer.

Perhaps RAZD has some good historical info on this.

JB


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ThinAirDesigns
Member
Posts: 564
Joined: 02-12-2015


Message 1025 of 1053 (783112)
05-03-2016 4:11 PM


CRSQ article sought
"Tree-ring dating and multiple ring growth per year' Aardsma. CRSQ 29, Spring. pages 184189.

Tried my local library online journal access. No luck.

Any assistance appreciated.

JB


Replies to this message:
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PaulK
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Posts: 12770
Joined: 01-10-2003
Member Rating: 3.0


Message 1026 of 1053 (783113)
05-03-2016 4:25 PM
Reply to: Message 1025 by ThinAirDesigns
05-03-2016 4:11 PM


Re: CRSQ article sought
The abstract is available here

The surprising conclusion:


It is found that the tree-ring/radiocarbon data are contrary to the suggestion of multiple ring growth

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ThinAirDesigns
Member
Posts: 564
Joined: 02-12-2015


Message 1027 of 1053 (783116)
05-03-2016 5:01 PM
Reply to: Message 1026 by PaulK
05-03-2016 4:25 PM


Re: CRSQ article sought
Thanks. I've seen the abstract -- just trying to not spend eight bucks for a hard copy of the article (it's not the $8 bucks that bothers me but who I would have to send it to)

Even tried to get Aardsma himself to send me the text -- no luck.

JB


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Replies to this message:
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edge
Member
Posts: 3888
From: Colorado, USA
Joined: 01-09-2002
Member Rating: 4.1


Message 1028 of 1053 (783127)
05-03-2016 8:03 PM
Reply to: Message 1027 by ThinAirDesigns
05-03-2016 5:01 PM


Re: CRSQ article sought
Thanks. I've seen the abstract -- just trying to not spend eight bucks for a hard copy of the article (it's not the $8 bucks that bothers me but who I would have to send it to)
Even tried to get Aardsma himself to send me the text -- no luck.

I don't think you are missing much.

If Aardsma's only possible alternative is that the flood 'must have occurred more than 10ky ago', it's not a very intellectual accomplishment.


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Replies to this message:
 Message 1029 by ThinAirDesigns, posted 05-03-2016 8:12 PM edge has responded

  
ThinAirDesigns
Member
Posts: 564
Joined: 02-12-2015


Message 1029 of 1053 (783129)
05-03-2016 8:12 PM
Reply to: Message 1028 by edge
05-03-2016 8:03 PM


Re: CRSQ article sought
I promise you I couldn't give two craps for his theories.

As often is the case for my requests for literature, I'm only interested in the article to refute claim of what YEC family says is in the article that I believe is not in the article.

The quickest way for me to show that YEC folk lie about what is in an article is to produce the article and show the lies.

JB

Edited by ThinAirDesigns, : No reason given.


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JonF
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Posts: 3654
Joined: 06-23-2003
Member Rating: 3.6


Message 1030 of 1053 (783196)
05-04-2016 8:17 AM
Reply to: Message 1025 by ThinAirDesigns
05-03-2016 4:11 PM


Re: CRSQ article sought
You could try contacting him.

quote:
info@biblicalchronologist.org (Access code required; see below.)

NOTE 1: To reach us by e-mail you must include the following access code in the subject field of your e-mail: BC7946.
NOTE 2: Questions to Dr. Aardsma thought to be of general interest and benefit to others may be posted together with their responses from Dr. Aardsma in the Correspondence section of this web site. Privacy of the sender will be preserved by using first names or abbreviated last names only. If you wish your correspondence not to become public, please state so when you send it.


{ABE} Whoops, looks like you've tried that.

http://www.biblicalchronologist.org/ probably contains much of the material from that paper.

Edited by JonF, : No reason given.


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kbertsche
Member
Posts: 1361
From: San Jose, CA, USA
Joined: 05-10-2007
Member Rating: 5.5


Message 1031 of 1053 (783212)
05-04-2016 10:56 AM
Reply to: Message 1025 by ThinAirDesigns
05-03-2016 4:11 PM


Re: CRSQ article sought
"Tree-ring dating and multiple ring growth per year' Aardsma. CRSQ 29, Spring. pages 184189.
Tried my local library online journal access. No luck.

Any assistance appreciated.


Have you tried interlibrary loan for the actual journal? Lots of libraries should have it:
https://www.worldcat.org/...h-society-quarterly/oclc/1791775

"Science without religion is lame, religion without science is blind." Albert Einstein

I am very astonished that the scientific picture of the real world around me is very deficient. It gives us a lot of factual information, puts all of our experience in a magnificently consistent order, but it is ghastly silent about all and sundry that is really near to our heart, that really matters to us. It cannot tell us a word about red and blue, bitter and sweet, physical pain and physical delight; it knows nothing of beautiful and ugly, good or bad, God and eternity. Science sometimes pretends to answer questions in these domains, but the answers are very often so silly that we are not inclined to take them seriously. Erwin Schroedinger


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Replies to this message:
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ThinAirDesigns
Member
Posts: 564
Joined: 02-12-2015


Message 1032 of 1053 (783214)
05-04-2016 11:33 AM
Reply to: Message 1031 by kbertsche
05-04-2016 10:56 AM


Re: CRSQ article sought
My small town library in Georgia only had access to this database and it didn't contain any of the CRS quarterlies:

https://www.galileo.usg.edu/welcome/?Welcome

I will next go up the Tennessee direction to a larger library and try your WorldCat suggestion.

Thanks
JB

Edited by ThinAirDesigns, : No reason given.

Edited by ThinAirDesigns, : No reason given.


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 Message 1031 by kbertsche, posted 05-04-2016 10:56 AM kbertsche has responded

Replies to this message:
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edge
Member
Posts: 3888
From: Colorado, USA
Joined: 01-09-2002
Member Rating: 4.1


(1)
Message 1033 of 1053 (783402)
05-05-2016 10:03 AM
Reply to: Message 1029 by ThinAirDesigns
05-03-2016 8:12 PM


Re: CRSQ article sought
The quickest way for me to show that YEC folk lie about what is in an article is to produce the article and show the lies.

Yeah...

I suppose that showing more subtle flaw in reasoning wouldn't be as effective.

Carry on.


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kbertsche
Member
Posts: 1361
From: San Jose, CA, USA
Joined: 05-10-2007
Member Rating: 5.5


Message 1034 of 1053 (783421)
05-05-2016 11:10 AM
Reply to: Message 1032 by ThinAirDesigns
05-04-2016 11:33 AM


Re: CRSQ article sought
JB writes:


My small town library in Georgia only had access to this database and it didn't contain any of the CRS quarterlies:
https://www.galileo.usg.edu/welcome/?Welcome

I will next go up the Tennessee direction to a larger library and try your WorldCat suggestion.

Thanks
JB


According to Worldcat, Covenant College should have this journal. You could probably go in yourself and copy the article.

"Science without religion is lame, religion without science is blind." Albert Einstein

I am very astonished that the scientific picture of the real world around me is very deficient. It gives us a lot of factual information, puts all of our experience in a magnificently consistent order, but it is ghastly silent about all and sundry that is really near to our heart, that really matters to us. It cannot tell us a word about red and blue, bitter and sweet, physical pain and physical delight; it knows nothing of beautiful and ugly, good or bad, God and eternity. Science sometimes pretends to answer questions in these domains, but the answers are very often so silly that we are not inclined to take them seriously. Erwin Schroedinger


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 Message 1032 by ThinAirDesigns, posted 05-04-2016 11:33 AM ThinAirDesigns has responded

Replies to this message:
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ThinAirDesigns
Member
Posts: 564
Joined: 02-12-2015


Message 1035 of 1053 (783422)
05-05-2016 11:14 AM
Reply to: Message 1034 by kbertsche
05-05-2016 11:10 AM


Re: CRSQ article sought
NICE!

I shall try that next.

Thanks
JB


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Replies to this message:
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