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Author Topic:   Net Neutrality --- For Once, Everyone Wins
Larni
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Posts: 3953
From: Liverpool
Joined: 09-16-2005


Message 46 of 73 (825403)
12-14-2017 4:52 PM
Reply to: Message 45 by Percy
12-14-2017 1:27 PM


Re: FCC Dissenters on Net Neutrality Repeal Post Letters
That really sucks.


The above ontological example models the zero premise to BB theory. It does so by applying the relative uniformity assumption that the alleged zero event eventually ontologically progressed from the compressed alleged sub-microscopic chaos to bloom/expand into all of the present observable order, more than it models the Biblical record evidence for the existence of Jehovah, the maximal Biblical god designer.
-Attributed to Buzsaw Message 53

The explain to them any scientific investigation that explains the existence of things qualifies as science and as an explanation
-Attributed to Dawn Bertot Message 286

Does a query (thats a question Stile) that uses this physical reality, to look for an answer to its existence and properties become theoretical, considering its deductive conclusions are based against objective verifiable realities.
-Attributed to Dawn Bertot Message 134


This message is a reply to:
 Message 45 by Percy, posted 12-14-2017 1:27 PM Percy has acknowledged this reply

    
RAZD
Member
Posts: 19478
From: the other end of the sidewalk
Joined: 03-14-2004
Member Rating: 2.3


Message 47 of 73 (825467)
12-15-2017 8:47 AM
Reply to: Message 45 by Percy
12-14-2017 1:27 PM


Re: FCC Dissenters on Net Neutrality Repeal Post Letters
Not over quite yet -- it has to be approved by congress.

Several states are already moving to replace federal requirements with state ones, and several states are suing the FCC.

In addition, there are cities that have set up their own internet service

http://money.cnn.com/...tion/chattanooga-internet/index.html

https://www.thenation.com/...an-offering-municipal-broadband :

quote:
Even in places where private companies provide high-speed service, a public Internet option may prove increasingly vital to low-income residents. Internet inequality is a growing issue in the United States: Internet connections are often required for job applications, and seven in 10 teachers assign homework that requires broadband access, according to FCC commissioner Jessica Rosenworcel; yet about one-third of low-income families dont have high-speed access to the Internet in their homes. Part of the problem is geography: Private Internet companies have little incentive to lay cable to sparsely populated areas. But even bigger cities usually only have one or two options for private Internet access, and so companies like Comcast have little competition and therefore little incentive to make their services affordable for low-income families.

Most municipalities dont have official mandates to make Internet access more equitable, but it seems that equity is nonetheless a central concern of many municipal providers. In Wilson, North Carolina (population: 50,000), the city began laying fiber-optic cables between government buildings in order to better share information, and decided it could expand the service to others. The city now offers free WiFi downtown and has teamed up with two nonprofit after-school programs to provide the Internet to low-income kids. The small city of Sandy, Oregon, doesnt have discounted plans, but its municipal service nonetheless is cheaper than corporate providers100 megabits costs only $40 a month.

Just like we provide parks and trails and other amenities, we also feel likehaving great Internet is a reason to live here, Seth Atkinson, Sandys city manager, said.

Laying fiber-optic cable can be expensive, so its unlikely that big cities will jump on the municipal Internet bandwagon anytime soon, but leaders are nonetheless beginning to see equitable Internet access as a major issue. In San Francisco, the city teamed up with the nonprofit Internet Archive to provide free high-speed Internet access to thousands of public-housing residents. New York City too is beginning to offer free Internet access in public-housing projects.


Public non-profit co-op utilities -- another socialist solution to capitalist greed.

Enjoy

Edited by RAZD, : .


we are limited in our ability to understand
by our ability to understand
RebelAmerican☆Zen☯Deist
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This message is a reply to:
 Message 45 by Percy, posted 12-14-2017 1:27 PM Percy has acknowledged this reply

Replies to this message:
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NoNukes
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Posts: 10481
From: Central NC USA
Joined: 08-13-2010
Member Rating: 1.9


Message 48 of 73 (825571)
12-16-2017 6:56 AM
Reply to: Message 47 by RAZD
12-15-2017 8:47 AM


Re: FCC Dissenters on Net Neutrality Repeal Post Letters
Public non-profit co-op utilities -- another socialist solution to capitalist greed.

If we want to call local public efforts to provide internet access socialist, a point that I don't concede, then what should we call state government laws that to prevent voters from providing public assess for their communities. Surely those kind of laws are something other than free market capitalism.

Who voted for this shite again?


Under a government which imprisons any unjustly, the true place for a just man is also in prison. Thoreau: Civil Disobedience (1846)

I was thinking as long as I have my hands up theyre not going to shoot me. This is what Im thinking theyre not going to shoot me. Wow, was I wrong. -- Charles Kinsey

We got a thousand points of light for the homeless man. We've got a kinder, gentler, machine gun hand. Neil Young, Rockin' in the Free World.

Worrying about the "browning of America" is not racism. -- Faith

I hate you all, you hate me -- Faith


This message is a reply to:
 Message 47 by RAZD, posted 12-15-2017 8:47 AM RAZD has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 53 by RAZD, posted 12-16-2017 3:57 PM NoNukes has responded

    
Percy
Member
Posts: 16994
From: New Hampshire
Joined: 12-23-2000
Member Rating: 2.1


Message 49 of 73 (825580)
12-16-2017 9:10 AM


The New York Times has run an article describing how it thinks the repeal of net neutrality will affect the average Internet user: Whats Next After the Repeal of Net Neutrality

But though I posted it I don't think the article is worth reading because I think it is wrong. I can summarize it's basic message: basically, nothing will change in the near term, maybe in a year.

Naturally the article is more detailed than that, but that's the basic message, and that is where they're right. Where they're wrong is that they sound no alarm about how drastic the changes will be later on.

Because of promises ISP's have made and because of legal challenges, it will be roughly a year before the ISPs, citing things like costs and competitive pressures and a changing competitive environment and so forth, begin providing tiered services where the quality of your access to sites will depend upon how much you're willing to pay, plus there will be shenanigans and arguments. Remember how Dish refused to carry CBS for about a week last month? You can expect rubbish like that to begin on the Internet within about a year.

--Percy


Replies to this message:
 Message 50 by RAZD, posted 12-16-2017 9:23 AM Percy has responded
 Message 60 by caffeine, posted 12-18-2017 2:26 PM Percy has responded

    
RAZD
Member
Posts: 19478
From: the other end of the sidewalk
Joined: 03-14-2004
Member Rating: 2.3


(1)
Message 50 of 73 (825584)
12-16-2017 9:23 AM
Reply to: Message 49 by Percy
12-16-2017 9:10 AM


But though I posted it I don't think the article is worth reading because I think it is wrong. I can summarize it's basic message: basically, nothing will change in the near term, maybe in a year.

Well, I keep hitting the  Do Nothing Button  in the hopes that it will stall the Trump agenda, but it doesn't seem to have much effect.


we are limited in our ability to understand
by our ability to understand
RebelAmerican☆Zen☯Deist
... to learn ... to think ... to live ... to laugh ...
to share.


Join the effort to solve medical problems, AIDS/HIV, Cancer and more with Team EvC! (click)

This message is a reply to:
 Message 49 by Percy, posted 12-16-2017 9:10 AM Percy has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 51 by Percy, posted 12-16-2017 10:08 AM RAZD has responded

  
Percy
Member
Posts: 16994
From: New Hampshire
Joined: 12-23-2000
Member Rating: 2.1


Message 51 of 73 (825587)
12-16-2017 10:08 AM
Reply to: Message 50 by RAZD
12-16-2017 9:23 AM


What happens when you hit the Do Nothing Button, and what browser are you using?

--Percy


This message is a reply to:
 Message 50 by RAZD, posted 12-16-2017 9:23 AM RAZD has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 52 by RAZD, posted 12-16-2017 11:16 AM Percy has responded

    
RAZD
Member
Posts: 19478
From: the other end of the sidewalk
Joined: 03-14-2004
Member Rating: 2.3


Message 52 of 73 (825598)
12-16-2017 11:16 AM
Reply to: Message 51 by Percy
12-16-2017 10:08 AM


What happens when you hit the Do Nothing Button, ...

Nothing on screen, but then Trump does something outrageous again. (you do realize I was making joke?)

... and what browser are you using?

Firefox 57.0.2 (64 bit).


we are limited in our ability to understand
by our ability to understand
RebelAmerican☆Zen☯Deist
... to learn ... to think ... to live ... to laugh ...
to share.


Join the effort to solve medical problems, AIDS/HIV, Cancer and more with Team EvC! (click)

This message is a reply to:
 Message 51 by Percy, posted 12-16-2017 10:08 AM Percy has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 55 by Minnemooseus, posted 12-16-2017 8:57 PM RAZD has responded
 Message 59 by Percy, posted 12-18-2017 1:38 PM RAZD has acknowledged this reply

  
RAZD
Member
Posts: 19478
From: the other end of the sidewalk
Joined: 03-14-2004
Member Rating: 2.3


Message 53 of 73 (825636)
12-16-2017 3:57 PM
Reply to: Message 48 by NoNukes
12-16-2017 6:56 AM


Re: FCC Dissenters on Net Neutrality Repeal Post Letters
If we want to call local public efforts to provide internet access socialist, a point that I don't concede ...

Well I liken them to sewers and watermains, electrical utilities and the like: services provided by local government through taxation and/or fees, with no profit built in. The people agree through their elected officials to have these services provided. Internet should be no different.

We also have police and fire protection provided with no profit built in (though that was tried), and roads and sidewalks.

They are certainly more socialistic/cooperative services provided through democratic processes than they are capitalistic.

... then what should we call state government laws that to prevent voters from providing public assess for their communities. Surely those kind of laws are something other than free market capitalism.

Not sure how to parse that. But laws that suppress democratic processes are totalitarian or fascist in my opinion. They certainly are not (democratic) socialism either.

Who voted for this shite again?

The corrupt politicians that are bought by the oligarchs?

Enjoy


we are limited in our ability to understand
by our ability to understand
RebelAmerican☆Zen☯Deist
... to learn ... to think ... to live ... to laugh ...
to share.


Join the effort to solve medical problems, AIDS/HIV, Cancer and more with Team EvC! (click)

This message is a reply to:
 Message 48 by NoNukes, posted 12-16-2017 6:56 AM NoNukes has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 54 by RAZD, posted 12-16-2017 5:45 PM RAZD has acknowledged this reply
 Message 57 by NoNukes, posted 12-18-2017 10:04 AM RAZD has responded

  
RAZD
Member
Posts: 19478
From: the other end of the sidewalk
Joined: 03-14-2004
Member Rating: 2.3


Message 54 of 73 (825644)
12-16-2017 5:45 PM
Reply to: Message 53 by RAZD
12-16-2017 3:57 PM


So the reason Net Neutrality was scuppered is so Trump can censor access?
It's all adding up to an attempt to control information by the Trump Fascist Administration.

See Trump thread

... we should be very concerned...

... because this is the way the world ends, not with a scream, but a whimper


we are limited in our ability to understand
by our ability to understand
RebelAmerican☆Zen☯Deist
... to learn ... to think ... to live ... to laugh ...
to share.


Join the effort to solve medical problems, AIDS/HIV, Cancer and more with Team EvC! (click)

This message is a reply to:
 Message 53 by RAZD, posted 12-16-2017 3:57 PM RAZD has acknowledged this reply

  
Minnemooseus
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Posts: 3617
From: Duluth, Minnesota, U.S. (West end of Lake Superior)
Joined: 11-11-2001
Member Rating: 2.0


Message 55 of 73 (825659)
12-16-2017 8:57 PM
Reply to: Message 52 by RAZD
12-16-2017 11:16 AM


"Do Nothing Button" sometimes malfunctions
The "Do Nothing Button" does have a bug and does malfunction (does something) for some browsers. Firefox is not effected by this bug.

Moose


This message is a reply to:
 Message 52 by RAZD, posted 12-16-2017 11:16 AM RAZD has responded

Replies to this message:
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RAZD
Member
Posts: 19478
From: the other end of the sidewalk
Joined: 03-14-2004
Member Rating: 2.3


Message 56 of 73 (825673)
12-17-2017 8:13 AM
Reply to: Message 55 by Minnemooseus
12-16-2017 8:57 PM


Re: "Do Nothing Button" sometimes malfunctions
Interesting. I was just bemoaning that it isn't stopping Trumps march to Armageddon.

But this also got me thinking about a new button:  Your Threads  that could replace the DNB ...

... and that would take you to the list of threads you are active in (same as clicking on your name)

Enjoy


we are limited in our ability to understand
by our ability to understand
RebelAmerican☆Zen☯Deist
... to learn ... to think ... to live ... to laugh ...
to share.


Join the effort to solve medical problems, AIDS/HIV, Cancer and more with Team EvC! (click)

This message is a reply to:
 Message 55 by Minnemooseus, posted 12-16-2017 8:57 PM Minnemooseus has not yet responded

  
NoNukes
Member
Posts: 10481
From: Central NC USA
Joined: 08-13-2010
Member Rating: 1.9


(1)
Message 57 of 73 (825822)
12-18-2017 10:04 AM
Reply to: Message 53 by RAZD
12-16-2017 3:57 PM


Re: FCC Dissenters on Net Neutrality Repeal Post Letters
The corrupt politicians that are bought by the oligarchs?

I was thinking of those folks who voted in those politicians. Although democrats seem to be no less corruptible than republicans, we've always known how the republicans felt about net neutrality, and we've known for a long time that we were one vote away from the loss of net neutrality. The current outcome was entirely predictable, and folks should have taken it into account at the last election.

Even more serious is the silent overhaul of the justice system. In addition to not allowing Obama to pick a Supreme Court justice, the republicans held open countless federal judge openings for Trump that should have been filled by Obama. Those positions are being filled with ideologues who in at least a few cases are not even legally competent.

Damage is being to our country on a daily basis and the loss of net neutrality is just one example of that. We get another attempt to put brakes on this stuff in 2018. And there are plenty of new faces out there freshly energized by after this year's inauguration and subsequent protests.


Under a government which imprisons any unjustly, the true place for a just man is also in prison. Thoreau: Civil Disobedience (1846)

I was thinking as long as I have my hands up theyre not going to shoot me. This is what Im thinking theyre not going to shoot me. Wow, was I wrong. -- Charles Kinsey

We got a thousand points of light for the homeless man. We've got a kinder, gentler, machine gun hand. Neil Young, Rockin' in the Free World.

Worrying about the "browning of America" is not racism. -- Faith

I hate you all, you hate me -- Faith


This message is a reply to:
 Message 53 by RAZD, posted 12-16-2017 3:57 PM RAZD has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 58 by RAZD, posted 12-18-2017 10:16 AM NoNukes has not yet responded

    
RAZD
Member
Posts: 19478
From: the other end of the sidewalk
Joined: 03-14-2004
Member Rating: 2.3


Message 58 of 73 (825825)
12-18-2017 10:16 AM
Reply to: Message 57 by NoNukes
12-18-2017 10:04 AM


Re: FCC Dissenters on Net Neutrality Repeal Post Letters
I was thinking of those folks who voted in those politicians. ...

And were gullible enough to believe the campaign slogans rather than look at actual actions.

... The current outcome was entirely predictable, and folks should have taken it into account at the last election.

Sadly I doubt many people think of the consequences of voting or not voting in regard to things like FCC and especially the Supreme Court.

Even more serious is the silent overhaul of the justice system. In addition to not allowing Obama to pick a Supreme Court justice, the republicans held open countless federal judge openings for Trump that should have been filled by Obama. Those positions are being filled with ideologues who in at least a few cases are not even legally competent

Indeed, but there must be some means to remove someone who is incompetent, one would hope.

Can justices be impeached?


we are limited in our ability to understand
by our ability to understand
RebelAmerican☆Zen☯Deist
... to learn ... to think ... to live ... to laugh ...
to share.


Join the effort to solve medical problems, AIDS/HIV, Cancer and more with Team EvC! (click)

This message is a reply to:
 Message 57 by NoNukes, posted 12-18-2017 10:04 AM NoNukes has not yet responded

  
Percy
Member
Posts: 16994
From: New Hampshire
Joined: 12-23-2000
Member Rating: 2.1


Message 59 of 73 (825861)
12-18-2017 1:38 PM
Reply to: Message 52 by RAZD
12-16-2017 11:16 AM


RAZD writes:

What happens when you hit the Do Nothing Button, ...

Nothing on screen, but then Trump does something outrageous again. (you do realize I was making joke?)

Refresh your page, then try the Do Nothing Button again. Should work on Mozilla now. It was only supposed to be a joke originally, so I never checked it on anything but Chrome, but I kind of like it now.

--Percy


This message is a reply to:
 Message 52 by RAZD, posted 12-16-2017 11:16 AM RAZD has acknowledged this reply

    
caffeine
Member
Posts: 1417
From: Prague, Czech Republic
Joined: 10-22-2008
Member Rating: 2.9


Message 60 of 73 (825864)
12-18-2017 2:26 PM
Reply to: Message 49 by Percy
12-16-2017 9:10 AM


Because of promises ISP's have made and because of legal challenges, it will be roughly a year before the ISPs, citing things like costs and competitive pressures and a changing competitive environment and so forth, begin providing tiered services where the quality of your access to sites will depend upon how much you're willing to pay, plus there will be shenanigans and arguments.

I thought the issue was about restricting access based on what the owners of sites are willing to pay, rather than the end consumer. They can already restrict the quality of your access based on what you're willing to pay. Or so I assume - it's perfectly legal to offer a tiered service to consumers over here; where cheaper subscriptions are offered which have caps on speeds or on the amount of data that can be downloaded. Data limits seem to be going out of fashion except on mobile phones, but offering different maximum speeds for different costs is still standard market practice for ISPs here. Isn't that the case in the US?


This message is a reply to:
 Message 49 by Percy, posted 12-16-2017 9:10 AM Percy has responded

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 Message 61 by Percy, posted 12-18-2017 3:36 PM caffeine has acknowledged this reply

  
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