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Author | Topic: Corporate Interests & Democracy's Death Knell | |||||||||||||||||||||||
Jon Inactive Member |
It's democracy as defined by your own Constitution. I wasn't aware that the U.S. Constitution was a dictionary.Love your enemies!
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ringo Member (Idle past 438 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: |
Jon writes:
Then you need to broaden your awareness. The US Constitution is, by definition , the definition of US democracy.
ringo writes:
I wasn't aware that the U.S. Constitution was a dictionary. It's democracy as defined by your own Constitution.
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Jon Inactive Member |
Then you need to broaden your awareness. The US Constitution is, by definition , the definition of US democracy. It's the definition of U.S. government.Love your enemies!
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ringo Member (Idle past 438 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: |
Jon writes:
Exactly. It's the definition of a democratic government. It's the definition of U.S. government. A dictionary defines the word "democracy". The Constitution defines the institution - i.e. the practice - of democracy.
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Jon Inactive Member |
Exactly. It's the definition of a democratic government. It is the definition of a government. How democratic that government is depends on the person making the judgement. Democracy can take many forms; where in that mix the U.S. falls in practice varies over time and under different interpretations (those by judges, for example).Love your enemies!
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ringo Member (Idle past 438 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: |
Jon writes:
In the context of your original claim, it would make sense to compare the US government to itself. Is it becoming less democratic or more?
Democracy can take many forms; where in that mix the U.S. falls in practice varies over time and under different interpretations (those by judges, for example).
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Jon Inactive Member |
Is it becoming less democratic or more? In my opinion?Love your enemies!
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ringo Member (Idle past 438 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: |
Jon writes:
You might want to think before you express an opinion. (Some hints: votes for women, desegregation....)
ringo writes:
In my opinion? Is it becoming less democratic or more?
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Jon Inactive Member |
You might want to think before you express an opinion. My opinion is that the ability of our government to work in the interest of the people has been diminished over time, even if we've been including more and more folks in our definition of 'people'.
(Some hints: votes for women, desegregation....) Equal treatment under the law has no necessary relationship with democracy. Edited by Jon, : No reason given.Love your enemies!
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NoNukes Inactive Member |
Equal treatment under the law has no necessary relationship with democracy. Some animals are more equal than others. Under a government which imprisons any unjustly, the true place for a just man is also in prison. Thoreau: Civil Disobedience (1846) History will have to record that the greatest tragedy of this period of social transition was not the strident clamor of the bad people, but the appalling silence of the good people. Martin Luther King If there are no stupid questions, then what kind of questions do stupid people ask? Do they get smart just in time to ask questions? Scott Adams
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ringo Member (Idle past 438 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: |
Jon writes:
The ability of the government to work in the interest of the people has no necessary relationship with democracy.
My opinion is that the ability of our government to work in the interest of the people has been diminished over time, even if we've been including more and more folks in our definition of 'people'.
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Jon Inactive Member |
Huh?
Love your enemies!
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ringo Member (Idle past 438 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: |
Jon writes:
You said, "... the ability of our government to work in the interest of the people has been diminished over time..." and, "Equal treatment under the law has no necessary relationship with democracy." Huh?I'm saying that the ability of the government to work in the interest of the people has no necessary relationship with democracy either - so your point about equal treatment is moot. By analogy, you're saying that dogs are smarter than cats because they have four legs; I'm pointing out that cats also have four legs.
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Jon Inactive Member |
You said, "... the ability of our government to work in the interest of the people has been diminished over time..." and, "Equal treatment under the law has no necessary relationship with democracy." I'm saying that the ability of the government to work in the interest of the people has no necessary relationship with democracy either - so your point about equal treatment is moot. The ability of the people who make the decisions to make them in their interests is the basic component of a functioning government. In a democracy, the 'people who make the decisions' should be the electorate. When the decisions they make no longer translate into a service of their interests, we must ask whether they are really the ones making the decisions (whether the democracy is a mirage) and if they are whether there is systemic malfunction preventing their decisions translating into a service of their interests (whether the democratic component of the system is broken though present)
By analogy, you're saying that dogs are smarter than cats because they have four legs By analogy I'm really not.Love your enemies!
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ringo Member (Idle past 438 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: |
Jon writes:
Or... we could ask ourselves if our translation is accurate. Do "we" - meaning you - really know what the people's interests are? Maybe the people do know what their interests are and you're the one who doesn't.
When the decisions they make no longer translate into a service of their interests, we must ask whether they are really the ones making the decisions... Jon writes:
If there is a systemic malfunction, it's that the American people have abandoned much of their role in democracy, trusting their interests to capitalism: "What's good for business is good for me." That isn't democracy breaking down; it's just failure to use democracy.
... whether there is systemic malfunction preventing their decisions translating into a service of their interests....
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