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Author Topic:   Movie - "The Principle"
Suzanne Romano
Member (Idle past 1131 days)
Posts: 58
Joined: 06-17-2015


Message 1 of 120 (760126)
06-17-2015 11:09 PM


http://www.theprinciplemovie.com/

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p8cBvMCucTg

I would like to provide information to forum members about the motion picture entitled The Principle, a scientific documentary which brings into question the prevailing assumptions about the structure of the Cosmos.

“The Principle” has already sparked heated debate, and is likely to become one of the most controversial films of our time.

Is the idea of a stationary Earth at the center of the Universe nothing more than a ridiculous holdover from an irrational and superstitious age?

Modern science has long maintained that the human species is nothing special in the context of the cosmos. Indeed, in Carl Sagan’s words, the Earth is nothing more than “an insignificant planet of a humdrum star lost in a galaxy tucked away in some forgotten corner of a universe in which there are far more galaxies than people.” Now this worldview is founded upon what amounts to religious faith in the Copernican Principle, the core dogma underpinning the evolutionist origins paradigm.

"The Principle" provides a format with which to re-examine the modern cosmological assumptions, by publishing, in a visually stunning manner, the astonishing experimental data collected from recent large-scale surveys of the Universe, such as the Planck probe. The evidence discloses a preferred direction, an Earth-oriented alignment in the cosmos, which clearly indicates, not that the Earth is an insignificant orb of dust (as posited by evolutionists), but rather that it occupies a very unique and compelling place in the macrocosm.

“The Principle” features narration by Kate Mulgrew (“Star Trek Voyager”, “Orange Is The New Black”, and “Ryan’s Hope”); stunning animations by BUF Compagnie Paris (“Life of Pi”, “Thor"); and interviews with scientists and thinkers, some of whom are the most prominent evolutionist cosmologists of our time - George Ellis, Michio Kaku, Julian Barbour, Lawrence Krauss, Max Tegmark.

Why the controversy? Because the clear implications of the data point to an alternative model for the structure of the Universe.

Edited by Adminnemooseus, : Change topic title from "THE PRINCIPLE MOVIE".


Replies to this message:
 Message 3 by Pressie, posted 06-18-2015 12:26 AM Suzanne Romano has not yet responded
 Message 4 by Dr Adequate, posted 06-18-2015 12:27 AM Suzanne Romano has responded
 Message 12 by Suzanne Romano, posted 06-18-2015 10:05 AM Suzanne Romano has not yet responded
 Message 26 by RAZD, posted 06-18-2015 3:31 PM Suzanne Romano has not yet responded
 Message 28 by NoNukes, posted 06-18-2015 8:00 PM Suzanne Romano has responded

    
Adminnemooseus
Director
Posts: 3869
Joined: 09-26-2002


Message 2 of 120 (760128)
06-17-2015 11:33 PM


Thread Copied from Proposed New Topics Forum
Thread copied here from the Movie - "The Principle" thread in the Proposed New Topics forum.
Replies to this message:
 Message 6 by nwr, posted 06-18-2015 12:58 AM Adminnemooseus has acknowledged this reply
 Message 10 by Suzanne Romano, posted 06-18-2015 8:36 AM Adminnemooseus has acknowledged this reply

    
Pressie
Member
Posts: 1919
From: Pretoria, SA
Joined: 06-18-2010


Message 3 of 120 (760130)
06-18-2015 12:26 AM
Reply to: Message 1 by Suzanne Romano
06-17-2015 11:09 PM


Suzanne writes:

Modern science has long maintained that the human species is nothing special in the context of the cosmos. Indeed, in Carl Sagan’s words, the Earth is nothing more than “an insignificant planet of a humdrum star lost in a galaxy tucked away in some forgotten corner of a universe in which there are far more galaxies than people.” Now this worldview is founded upon what amounts to religious faith in the Copernican Principle, the core dogma underpinning the evolutionist origins paradigm.

Err, why on earth would an evolutionist have anything to say about the Copernican Principle? Evolutionists do biology.

And Suzanne again writes

...not that the Earth is an insignificant orb of dust (as posited by evolutionists)...
Again, why would an evolutionist say anything about cosmology? Evolutionists do biology.

This whole thing seems to have been written by someone who is too uneducated to know the difference between Cosmology and Biology. If such an ignorant person writes a recommendation to go and see such a "scientific documentary" movie, be sure that it's a comedy...


This message is a reply to:
 Message 1 by Suzanne Romano, posted 06-17-2015 11:09 PM Suzanne Romano has not yet responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 5 by Adminnemooseus, posted 06-18-2015 12:52 AM Pressie has not yet responded

    
Dr Adequate
Member
Posts: 16052
Joined: 07-20-2006
Member Rating: 3.4


Message 4 of 120 (760131)
06-18-2015 12:27 AM
Reply to: Message 1 by Suzanne Romano
06-17-2015 11:09 PM


Are you going to argue in favor of geocentrism or whatever it is, or is this just an advertisement?

Edited by Dr Adequate, : No reason given.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 1 by Suzanne Romano, posted 06-17-2015 11:09 PM Suzanne Romano has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 14 by Suzanne Romano, posted 06-18-2015 10:42 AM Dr Adequate has not yet responded
 Message 16 by Suzanne Romano, posted 06-18-2015 12:03 PM Dr Adequate has responded

  
Adminnemooseus
Director
Posts: 3869
Joined: 09-26-2002


Message 5 of 120 (760133)
06-18-2015 12:52 AM
Reply to: Message 3 by Pressie
06-18-2015 12:26 AM


Cosmological evolution
Evolutionists do biology.

I think that "evolution/evolutionists" is being legitimately used as per cosmological evolution.

Please take any discussion of this moderation message to General Discussion Of Moderation Procedures (aka 'The Whine List').

Adminnemooseus


Or something like that©.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 3 by Pressie, posted 06-18-2015 12:26 AM Pressie has not yet responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 17 by Suzanne Romano, posted 06-18-2015 12:04 PM Adminnemooseus has acknowledged this reply

    
nwr
Member
Posts: 5583
From: Geneva, Illinois
Joined: 08-08-2005


Message 6 of 120 (760134)
06-18-2015 12:58 AM
Reply to: Message 2 by Adminnemooseus
06-17-2015 11:33 PM


Re: Thread Copied from Proposed New Topics Forum
I watched the trailer (the youtube link).

It looks to me as if the movie is religious bullshit. Much of the trailer consists of short clips which look to me to be the video version of quote mining.

I don't think this belongs in science forums.

Actually, I'm suspecting that the OP is spam.


Fundamentalism - the anti-American, anti-Christian branch of American Christianity

This message is a reply to:
 Message 2 by Adminnemooseus, posted 06-17-2015 11:33 PM Adminnemooseus has acknowledged this reply

  
AZPaul3
Member
Posts: 3467
From: Phoenix
Joined: 11-06-2006


Message 7 of 120 (760137)
06-18-2015 2:20 AM


The OP is spam. Trying to create a "controversy" as incentive to go buy a ticket.

Remember Expelled? Same kind of tripe filmed in the same, cherry-picked, ambush-interview style.

preview1

preview2

preview3

suggestion: destroy this thread and ban Romano (who won't be back anyway)


  
MrHambre
Member (Idle past 63 days)
Posts: 1494
From: Framingham, MA, USA
Joined: 06-23-2003


(1)
Message 8 of 120 (760148)
06-18-2015 6:07 AM


No one remembers this brouhaha? The Principle came out a year or two back, and misrepresented so many scientists who had unwittingly taken part in the film that Lawrence Krauss (featured in the movie) denounced it in a Slate article. Narrator Kate Mulgrew also distanced herself from the project, though it's worth noting that geocentrism is only slightly less plausible than season 3 of Orange Is the New Black.

Edited by MrHambre, : No reason given.


Replies to this message:
 Message 32 by Suzanne Romano, posted 06-19-2015 12:39 PM MrHambre has not yet responded

    
Percy
Member
Posts: 17875
From: New Hampshire
Joined: 12-23-2000
Member Rating: 2.3


Message 9 of 120 (760153)
06-18-2015 8:22 AM


Just Watched the Trailer
I vaguely remember this from last year, didn't pay any attention to it then, but I just now watched the trailer and I gotta say, "Wow!", that is one heck of a trailer! I admire the talent it took to produce, and the money. Kate Mulgrew earns $35,000 per episode on Orange is the New Black, hiring her voice over talents can't be cheap.

It does seem possible that Suzanne Romano is a spammer promoting the movie and not a new member eager to discuss geocentrism, but while most of her post is cut-n-pasted from the movie ads she did go the trouble to tailor it to this site where she says, "Now this worldview is founded upon what amounts to religious faith in the Copernican Principle, the core dogma underpinning the evolutionist origins paradigm."

--Percy


Replies to this message:
 Message 11 by AZPaul3, posted 06-18-2015 8:50 AM Percy has acknowledged this reply

    
Suzanne Romano
Member (Idle past 1131 days)
Posts: 58
Joined: 06-17-2015


Message 10 of 120 (760154)
06-18-2015 8:36 AM
Reply to: Message 2 by Adminnemooseus
06-17-2015 11:33 PM


Re: Thread Copied from Proposed New Topics Forum
Thanks!
This message is a reply to:
 Message 2 by Adminnemooseus, posted 06-17-2015 11:33 PM Adminnemooseus has acknowledged this reply

    
AZPaul3
Member
Posts: 3467
From: Phoenix
Joined: 11-06-2006


(1)
Message 11 of 120 (760156)
06-18-2015 8:50 AM
Reply to: Message 9 by Percy
06-18-2015 8:22 AM


Re: Just Watched the Trailer
So, what you're saying is that in the spirit of open-minded scientific debate we will give credence to what we already know to be crap from one we already know to be a self-serving charlatan?

You're too kind, boss.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 9 by Percy, posted 06-18-2015 8:22 AM Percy has acknowledged this reply

  
Suzanne Romano
Member (Idle past 1131 days)
Posts: 58
Joined: 06-17-2015


Message 12 of 120 (760165)
06-18-2015 10:05 AM
Reply to: Message 1 by Suzanne Romano
06-17-2015 11:09 PM


PRESSIE: Err, why on earth would an evolutionist have anything to say about the Copernican Principle? Evolutionists do biology.

SUZANNE: The Copernican Principle, especially as it has been applied by modern speculative physics, is evolutionist in its essence. The evolutionary worldview posits several paradigmatic foundational principles, all of which have their nascence and inception in the assumptions and theories of the heliocentrists/copernicans.

The first principle of evolutionism is that of material origin or first cause. Whereas both Natural Theology and Divine Revelation recognize One, Omnipotent, Uncreated, Eternal, Intelligent, Simple, and Good First Cause (Creator), In Whom there is no matter, no composition, no material extension, and no potency, Who is pure Act and Pure Spirit, and from Whom came forth the material, finite, created Universe; the evolutionary worldview posits a material first cause. Matter was, matter is, and matter will be. All things that exist are products of cosmological and biological material causes. Whatever form their existence might take at any moment of measurement, observation, or apprehension, owes all of its attributes to random physical causes, and not to the intelligently determined design of an omnipotent Creator.

The Copernican Principle (CP) underpins the Big Bang Theory (BBT) of the origin of the Universe. This theory posits a material first cause. Something - in some versions so small that it amounts to virtually nothing - exploded, cooled, and gelled. And then there was the Universe. And this took billions, and billions of years.

The next principle is perpetual change. In the evolutionary/copernican/relativist paradigm, there is no stable, immovable, absolutely at rest body. If absolutely nothing in the material Universe is at rest, then no motion whatsoever is capable of measurement; for all measurement requires a standard for comparison. Furthermore, if absolutely nothing in the material Universe is at rest, then there can be no objective direction. There is no up, no down, and no center. All motion is relative, i.e. subjective, i.e. based on perception and vantage point and nothing more. Indeed Big Bang Cosmology posits just this: an acentric universe with no objective direction and no objectively measurable motion.

According to Natural Philosophy and Divine Revelation, the Earth is a fixed, stable body at rest in the center of the spherical, finite Universe. A fixed Earth conforms to common sense, and, being fixed, provides the basis and foundation for all measurement of all motion. Copernicus, Galileo, Kepler, Einstein and the modern scientist establishment posited that the Earth is not fixed, but rather revolves around the sun and rotates on its own axis, in addition to hurtling through outer space with its sun, moon, planets, and galaxy. This destroys the objective existence of a body at rest in the created cosmos, destroys all true measurement of motion, and - not incidentally - destroys belief in the literal sense and inerrancy of Sacred Scripture.

Likewise biological evolutionism posits perpetual change in the matter-form composition of generic biological forms. Sacred Writ reveals that the Eternal Word created all things according to their kinds (genera). Sacred Theology and Scholastic Philosophy teach that the kinds of plants and animals made by God during the Six Days of Creation are immutable substances, which, though subject to the changes of growth and corruption, are not subject to transubstantiation or transmutation. Evolution holds for the absurd idea that a lower being has the power, through material causality, to transmute itself into a higher being, so that it gives what it never had. Amoeba has no lungs and no legs, but by some magic (called billions and billions of years), its offspring has lungs and legs. Ape has no rationality, but, by the power inherent in matter cum quasi-infinite magnitudes of time, can transmute itself into man.

Evolutionism gives to matter creative power OVER TIME. Matter creates OVER TIME. Because time is the essential requisite for the evolutionary system to have any possibility at all, the entire construct is qualified by the attribute of perpetual change, a function of time. In the case of man, matter is alleged to have created both a body and an immaterial soul. But this is absurd because there is no intellectual or spiritual power or capacity in matter. For this cause the evolutionary paradigm is constrained to categorize man, not as rational animal, but as just plain animal, and to deny the existence of his immaterial, rational, immortal soul. But this flies in the face of observable reality.

Evolution posits that the observable and measurable created kinds are not immutable forms, but rather transitional forms, always in the process of becoming, and therefore never actually participating in true existence according to a true essence or nature. Absurd consequences follow: True taxonomic measurement ceases to be possible because there are no immutable biological forms (no beings at rest, we might say) upon which to base a true branch of science. No category of living being can be anything other than a transitional, relative existence (relative to what, they never say); and this unmoors the entire science of taxonomy.

I don't want this reply to go on forever, wherefore I hope I have sufficiently addressed your question.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 1 by Suzanne Romano, posted 06-17-2015 11:09 PM Suzanne Romano has not yet responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 13 by MrHambre, posted 06-18-2015 10:26 AM Suzanne Romano has responded
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 Message 21 by Dr Adequate, posted 06-18-2015 2:32 PM Suzanne Romano has not yet responded
 Message 27 by AZPaul3, posted 06-18-2015 7:40 PM Suzanne Romano has not yet responded
 Message 29 by Pressie, posted 06-19-2015 4:48 AM Suzanne Romano has not yet responded
 Message 31 by RAZD, posted 06-19-2015 8:37 AM Suzanne Romano has responded

    
MrHambre
Member (Idle past 63 days)
Posts: 1494
From: Framingham, MA, USA
Joined: 06-23-2003


Message 13 of 120 (760167)
06-18-2015 10:26 AM
Reply to: Message 12 by Suzanne Romano
06-18-2015 10:05 AM


Suzanne Romano writes:

Evolution posits that the observable and measurable created kinds are not immutable forms, but rather transitional forms, always in the process of becoming, and therefore never actually participating in true existence according to a true essence or nature. Absurd consequences follow: True taxonomic measurement ceases to be possible because there are no immutable biological forms (no beings at rest, we might say) upon which to base a true branch of science. No category of living being can be anything other than a transitional, relative existence (relative to what, they never say); and this unmoors the entire science of taxonomy.


There's no question that Darwinian evolution does away with the notion of species being fixed and immutable. True, a "species" is more a convenient classification than a hard fact. However, I don't understand how that makes taxonomy as a whole somehow impracticable. Most populations evolve slowly enough that useful if arbitrary distinctions have always been made, with or without the assumption of common ancestry.

The notion of flux in other areas of empirical research doesn't invalidate all their distinctions either. Temperature is a variable quality that's local and dependent on many factors, but that doesn't mean "true temperature measurement ceases to be possible." Uranium decays into lead over time, but that doesn't mean that measuring the proportion of radioactive element to its byproduct ceases to be possible.

Edited by MrHambre, : No reason given.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 12 by Suzanne Romano, posted 06-18-2015 10:05 AM Suzanne Romano has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 18 by Suzanne Romano, posted 06-18-2015 1:19 PM MrHambre has responded

    
Suzanne Romano
Member (Idle past 1131 days)
Posts: 58
Joined: 06-17-2015


Message 14 of 120 (760168)
06-18-2015 10:42 AM
Reply to: Message 4 by Dr Adequate
06-18-2015 12:27 AM


PRESSIE: This whole thing seems to have been written by someone who is too uneducated to know the difference between Cosmology and Biology. If such an ignorant person writes a recommendation to go and see such a "scientific documentary" movie, be sure that it's a comedy...

SUZANNE: You got me there, Pressie!


This message is a reply to:
 Message 4 by Dr Adequate, posted 06-18-2015 12:27 AM Dr Adequate has not yet responded

    
jar
Member
Posts: 30934
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004
Member Rating: 1.3


(1)
Message 15 of 120 (760169)
06-18-2015 10:54 AM
Reply to: Message 12 by Suzanne Romano
06-18-2015 10:05 AM


more utter nonsense and falsehoods.
SR writes:

Evolution posits that the observable and measurable created kinds are not immutable forms, but rather transitional forms, always in the process of becoming, and therefore never actually participating in true existence according to a true essence or nature.

It's amazing how many sophomoric and false statement can be dropped into word salad.

Evolution posits nothing. Sorry but that is just silly newspeak meant to misdirect the rubes while the conman palms the pea.

The evidence, all the evidence show that there are no such things as "the observable and measurable created kinds" and also shows that life has evolved and certainly always is transitional but the rest of the spiel, "always in the process of becoming, and therefore never actually participating in true existence according to a true essence or nature" is nothing but word salad, devoid of meaning, worth or relevance.

The film should be very popular within the Christian Cult of Ignorance and also profitable for the snake oil salesmen selling it to the ignorant gullible masses.

Check to see if you still have your wallet folk.


Anyone so limited that they can only spell a word one way is severely handicapped!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 12 by Suzanne Romano, posted 06-18-2015 10:05 AM Suzanne Romano has not yet responded

  
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