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Author Topic:   Movie - "The Principle"
Suzanne Romano
Member (Idle past 1133 days)
Posts: 58
Joined: 06-17-2015


Message 106 of 120 (761568)
07-02-2015 6:15 PM
Reply to: Message 82 by Percy
07-01-2015 12:58 PM


PERCY'S MATH EXHIBIT
Percy's math, for all the superfluity, posits a two-body paradigm for the determination of the relative motion and/or rest of two bodies in a multiplicity-of-bodies, multiplicity-of-forces universe.

That's just not good science because I can go outside at night and see numberless twinkling objects; and if I do it every night for a year I notice they all move together as a whole, as a unity, as a "one;" and they do it the same way every single year, as they have for millennia.

There's something to be said for the report of the material senses downloaded into the immaterial abstraction machine we call intellect.

I'll take that over Einstein every time.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 82 by Percy, posted 07-01-2015 12:58 PM Percy has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 109 by Percy, posted 07-02-2015 8:00 PM Suzanne Romano has responded
 Message 111 by NoNukes, posted 07-02-2015 8:06 PM Suzanne Romano has not yet responded
 Message 112 by Suzanne Romano, posted 07-02-2015 8:12 PM Suzanne Romano has not yet responded

    
Phat
Member
Posts: 11435
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.2


Message 107 of 120 (761571)
07-02-2015 7:06 PM
Reply to: Message 105 by Suzanne Romano
07-02-2015 6:03 PM


Re: VERBAL SPAM
This fellow, cantatedomino whom it looks like is now banned at the CathInfo.com forum sounds a lot like you, Suzanne. Do you know him?

If you wish to stick around, be prepared to defend your views. The spam links will not be allowed for now. They may be pretty, but try and impress us with your arguments rather than pictures and links.

I can meet salesmen all day long and they dont impress me unless they care enough to put aside the idea of selling something long enough to get to know me.


God created war so that Americans would learn geography. –Mark Twain
"A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." –Mark Twain

This message is a reply to:
 Message 105 by Suzanne Romano, posted 07-02-2015 6:03 PM Suzanne Romano has not yet responded

  
AdminPhat
Administrator
Posts: 1886
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-03-2004


Message 108 of 120 (761572)
07-02-2015 7:11 PM


Thread Moved from Big Bang and Cosmology Forum
Thread moved here from the Big Bang and Cosmology forum.
    
Percy
Member
Posts: 17879
From: New Hampshire
Joined: 12-23-2000
Member Rating: 2.3


Message 109 of 120 (761577)
07-02-2015 8:00 PM
Reply to: Message 106 by Suzanne Romano
07-02-2015 6:15 PM


Re: PERCY'S MATH EXHIBIT
Suzanne Romano writes:

Percy's math, for all the superfluity, posits a two-body paradigm for the determination of the relative motion and/or rest of two bodies in a multiplicity-of-bodies, multiplicity-of-forces universe.

Uh, no, that wasn't the point. Let me explain again.

You had argued that the masses of the stars must be taken into account when solving the N-Body problem within the solar system. I went through the math and showed that the force of attraction of Alpha Centauri, the next nearest star, is 11 orders of magnitude less than the Sun and can be ignored, and that therefore the forces of all other stars, which are even further away, can also be ignored. I also pointed out that the gravity of the nearest stars that surround us (the ones that exert the greatest force on the solar system even though that force is tiny) tend to cancel anyway. And we're surrounded by the rest of the universe on all sides, and that gravity tends to cancel, too.

In other words, the rest of the universe is irrelevant to solving the N-Body problem within the solar system.

--Percy


This message is a reply to:
 Message 106 by Suzanne Romano, posted 07-02-2015 6:15 PM Suzanne Romano has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 110 by Suzanne Romano, posted 07-02-2015 8:06 PM Percy has responded

    
Suzanne Romano
Member (Idle past 1133 days)
Posts: 58
Joined: 06-17-2015


Message 110 of 120 (761578)
07-02-2015 8:06 PM
Reply to: Message 109 by Percy
07-02-2015 8:00 PM


Re: PERCY'S MATH EXHIBIT
Percy:

quote:
Uh, no, that wasn't the point. Let me explain again.

You had argued that the masses of the stars must be taken into account when solving the N-Body problem within the solar system. I went through the math and showed that the force of attraction of Alpha Centauri, the next nearest star, is 11 orders of magnitude less than the Sun and can be ignored, and that therefore the forces of all other stars, which are even further away, can also be ignored. I also pointed out that the gravity of the nearest stars that surround us (the ones that exert the greatest force on the solar system even though that force is tiny) tend to cancel anyway. And we're surrounded by the rest of the universe on all sides, and that gravity tends to cancel, too.

In other words, the rest of the universe is irrelevant to solving the N-Body problem within the solar system.


Just curious, Percy: Are you a physicist and is this the results of your own research or are you relying on some authority for your propositions? If you are relying on your own research, please let me examine the entire body of it. And if you are relying on authority, please cite it.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 109 by Percy, posted 07-02-2015 8:00 PM Percy has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 113 by Percy, posted 07-02-2015 8:39 PM Suzanne Romano has not yet responded

    
NoNukes
Inactive Member


Message 111 of 120 (761579)
07-02-2015 8:06 PM
Reply to: Message 106 by Suzanne Romano
07-02-2015 6:15 PM


Re: PERCY'S MATH EXHIBIT
That's just not good science because I can go outside at night and see numberless twinkling objects; and if I do it every night for a year I notice they all move together as a whole, as a unity, as a "one;" and they do it the same way every single year, as they have for millennia.

Except that your observation is not correct is it? The stars do not move together as one, and observations of the stars show that the constellations and asterisms do vary over time until they become unrecognizable.

You don't have to take Percy's math at face value. The problem for you though is that using the math and applying it to all of the larger bodies in the solar system is enough to explain their motions entirely. Just as a spinning earth and with distant stars easily explains everything we see.

In any event, I am glad to see you still here even after realizing that you cannot promote GWW very easily. Now if we can manage to engage you in an argument or two...

Edited by NoNukes, : No reason given.


Under a government which imprisons any unjustly, the true place for a just man is also in prison. Thoreau: Civil Disobedience (1846)

History will have to record that the greatest tragedy of this period of social transition was not the strident clamor of the bad people, but the appalling silence of the good people. Martin Luther King

If there are no stupid questions, then what kind of questions do stupid people ask? Do they get smart just in time to ask questions? Scott Adams


This message is a reply to:
 Message 106 by Suzanne Romano, posted 07-02-2015 6:15 PM Suzanne Romano has not yet responded

  
Suzanne Romano
Member (Idle past 1133 days)
Posts: 58
Joined: 06-17-2015


(1)
Message 112 of 120 (761580)
07-02-2015 8:12 PM
Reply to: Message 106 by Suzanne Romano
07-02-2015 6:15 PM


Re: PERCY'S MATH EXHIBIT
Phat:

quote:
This fellow, cantatedomino whom it looks like is now banned at the CathInfo.com forum sounds a lot like you, Suzanne. Do you know him?
If you wish to stick around, be prepared to defend your views. The spam links will not be allowed for now. They may be pretty, but try and impress us with your arguments rather than pictures and links.

I can meet salesmen all day long and they dont impress me unless they care enough to put aside the idea of selling something long enough to get to know me.


Yes Phat, I am cantatedomino and I am banned from cathinfo forum for taking Bishop Richard Williamson to task in a not so nice way. You will not be able to read the offending comments because they were deleted.

My banning has nothing to do with my advocacy for geocentrism.

Interestingly The Principle thread here has been moved the the "sticks" of the forum and the name has been changed. Also I may not have my spammy banners back.

Move leveling of the playing field, methinks.

But I am at your service and will comply with your rules until you thrust me out at speeds exceeding orbital velocity.

And may the truth prevail, for the sake of our immortal souls.

Edited by Suzanne Romano, : No reason given.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 106 by Suzanne Romano, posted 07-02-2015 6:15 PM Suzanne Romano has not yet responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 117 by NoNukes, posted 07-03-2015 1:04 AM Suzanne Romano has not yet responded

    
Percy
Member
Posts: 17879
From: New Hampshire
Joined: 12-23-2000
Member Rating: 2.3


Message 113 of 120 (761585)
07-02-2015 8:39 PM
Reply to: Message 110 by Suzanne Romano
07-02-2015 8:06 PM


Re: PERCY'S MATH EXHIBIT
Suzanne Romano writes:

Just curious, Percy: Are you a physicist and is this the results of your own research or are you relying on some authority for your propositions? If you are relying on your own research, please let me examine the entire body of it. And if you are relying on authority, please cite it.

It's high school physics involving no more than multiplication, division and a single square. I'm not arguing from authority, just presenting the actual math and making some simple logical arguments. If you have questions about anything just ask.

--Percy


This message is a reply to:
 Message 110 by Suzanne Romano, posted 07-02-2015 8:06 PM Suzanne Romano has not yet responded

    
Dr Adequate
Member
Posts: 16055
Joined: 07-20-2006
Member Rating: 3.1


Message 114 of 120 (761592)
07-02-2015 9:11 PM
Reply to: Message 105 by Suzanne Romano
07-02-2015 6:03 PM


Re: VERBAL SPAM - WROTE IT MESELF
Now there is no movement in God. His Being (Pure Act), and therefore His Truth, are immutable. Man, by virtue of his place in the hierarchy of being - made "a little less than the Angels" - is intended by God to be the most fixed and stable creature in the changeable material universe ...

And yet people do in fact move about. I've moved several miles today. Over the course of my lifetime, tens of thousands of miles. Hence "we must presuppose an inherent instability" in humanity, "and hence a privated or divided cause". This is why gay people can marry, y'know. It's 'cos they keep moving around. Presumably in all the countries where they still can't marry, this is a result of all the inhabitants of those countries staying perfectly still.

Clearly our moral salvation must depend on asserting the doctrine that no-one ever moves, and clinging to this doctrine in the face of the overwhelming evidence to the contrary.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 105 by Suzanne Romano, posted 07-02-2015 6:03 PM Suzanne Romano has not yet responded

  
NoNukes
Inactive Member


Message 115 of 120 (761600)
07-02-2015 11:37 PM
Reply to: Message 105 by Suzanne Romano
07-02-2015 6:03 PM


Re: VERBAL SPAM - WROTE IT MESELF
Now there is no movement in God. His Being (Pure Act), and therefore His Truth, are immutable.

Really? So when the Bible says things like:

quote:
And the earth was without form, and void; and darkness was upon the face of the deep. And the Spirit of God moved upon the face of the waters.

You are wise enough not to take the 'moved' as literal. Yet when you read...

quote:
And the sun stopped in the middle of the sky and did not hasten to go down for about a whole day

it is somehow clear that such statements must be taken literally to the exclusion of all reason.

The truth of the matter is that the Bible contains a number of passages in which God changes his mind about something or when a circumstance or another causes God to move. I don't believe that your citation of the Bible here shows any real truth or consistency. What we have here instead is just navel gazing.

Edited by NoNukes, : No reason given.


Under a government which imprisons any unjustly, the true place for a just man is also in prison. Thoreau: Civil Disobedience (1846)

History will have to record that the greatest tragedy of this period of social transition was not the strident clamor of the bad people, but the appalling silence of the good people. Martin Luther King

If there are no stupid questions, then what kind of questions do stupid people ask? Do they get smart just in time to ask questions? Scott Adams


This message is a reply to:
 Message 105 by Suzanne Romano, posted 07-02-2015 6:03 PM Suzanne Romano has not yet responded

  
Dr Adequate
Member
Posts: 16055
Joined: 07-20-2006
Member Rating: 3.1


(2)
Message 116 of 120 (761602)
07-03-2015 12:23 AM
Reply to: Message 105 by Suzanne Romano
07-02-2015 6:03 PM


"Truly Obscene Speeds"
The first wave of invasion begins with copernicanism, which violently dislodges the Earth from its place in the cosmos. The intellectual effect on mankind is that Earth, in reality stable, immovable, unshakable, at rest, and centrally located, is now erroneously believed to hurtle through random space at truly obscene speeds.

Why are speeds obscene? In what way are speeds obscene? Are all speeds obscene, or how fast do they have to be to get saucy? Am I OK driving in a car? How about traveling in a plane? Is it kinkier if I break the sound barrier?

And why out of all the planets do you only worry about the obscene speed of the Earth? Using geocentric principles, we can establish that the speed of Neptune is even dirtier and that the motion of the stars can only be compared to an all-out orgy. And, of course, a geocentrist must think that the velocity of the Sun is exactly as depraved as a Copernican would claim that the velocity of the Earth is. Is the Sun a flaming pervert? All geocentrism achieves is to suppress the fast filth of one part of the cosmic picture by transferring it to another part. Indeed, you require the stars to move faster than what physicists say is the fastest speed possible, and which is therefore the most obscene any speed can be --- and your picture of the universe is obscener than that. Geocentrism turns the entire night sky into one great kaleidoscope of velocitudinous pornography. Shame on you, lewd hussy!

No wonder SCOTUS went gay. The stars are moving too quickly and depleting our moral fiber.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 105 by Suzanne Romano, posted 07-02-2015 6:03 PM Suzanne Romano has not yet responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 120 by NoNukes, posted 07-03-2015 11:57 AM Dr Adequate has not yet responded

  
NoNukes
Inactive Member


Message 117 of 120 (761604)
07-03-2015 1:04 AM
Reply to: Message 112 by Suzanne Romano
07-02-2015 8:12 PM


Re: PERCY'S MATH EXHIBIT
Yes Phat, I am cantatedomino and I am banned from cathinfo forum for taking Bishop Richard Williamson to task in a not so nice way. You will not be able to read the offending comments because they were deleted.

Nonetheless, the stuff we can read there is quite bizarre in its own way. Including a rant about the evil of electricity and electromagnetism all hosted on an internet web page and no doubt uploaded from your own computer. How you avoided the irony angels with that missive is probably a story worth telling twice.


Under a government which imprisons any unjustly, the true place for a just man is also in prison. Thoreau: Civil Disobedience (1846)

History will have to record that the greatest tragedy of this period of social transition was not the strident clamor of the bad people, but the appalling silence of the good people. Martin Luther King

If there are no stupid questions, then what kind of questions do stupid people ask? Do they get smart just in time to ask questions? Scott Adams


This message is a reply to:
 Message 112 by Suzanne Romano, posted 07-02-2015 8:12 PM Suzanne Romano has not yet responded

  
Dr Adequate
Member
Posts: 16055
Joined: 07-20-2006
Member Rating: 3.1


Message 118 of 120 (761607)
07-03-2015 2:56 AM


Interim Summary
Under correction from anyone who knows more physics than I, it seems to me that we have two options:

(1) We can adopt Newtonian dynamics, in which case according to experiment and observation it is false to say that the Earth is stationary.

(2) We can adopt a more sophisticated Einsteinian view in which it is meaningless to say that the Earth is stationary.

When they find themselves otherwise unable to defend against (1), the geocentrists take refuge in (2), since this affords them the doubtful pleasure of denying that the fixed stars are stationary either.

But whichever way you slice it, there's no warrant for saying that the Earth is stationary.


  
Percy
Member
Posts: 17879
From: New Hampshire
Joined: 12-23-2000
Member Rating: 2.3


(2)
Message 119 of 120 (761614)
07-03-2015 7:51 AM
Reply to: Message 100 by Suzanne Romano
07-02-2015 5:42 PM


Re: Galileo Was Wrong...about circular planetary orbits
Suzanne Romano writes:

I'll be back with my Michelson-Morley synopsis AFTER I WRITE IT.

There's no need to write a synopsis of the Michelson-Morley experiment, I can fill you in here. MM is a very famous part of the story of relativity. Probably all historical accounts of Einstein's development of his theory of relativity relate the story of MM's attempt to detect the luminiferous ether. No doubt your sources will tell you the experiment failed to detect the ether not because there is no ether, but because the Earth isn't moving.

Were our atmosphere opaque with the stars and planets forever hidden from our view then we would have no evidence that the Earth is moving, and one of the possibilities that would have to be considered after the failure of the MM experiment would be that the Earth isn't moving. But our atmosphere isn't opaque and we have copious evidence of the Earth's motion, so the failure of the MM experiment must be for some other reason. That reason turns out to be that there's no such thing as the luminiferous ether. Relativity explains the negative results.

I'm leaving out a great many details, ask any questions you wish, lots of people here can answer them.

--Percy

Edited by Percy, : Typo.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 100 by Suzanne Romano, posted 07-02-2015 5:42 PM Suzanne Romano has not yet responded

    
NoNukes
Inactive Member


Message 120 of 120 (761628)
07-03-2015 11:57 AM
Reply to: Message 116 by Dr Adequate
07-03-2015 12:23 AM


Re: "Truly Obscene Speeds"
Geocentrism turns the entire night sky into one great kaleidoscope of velocitudinous pornography. Shame on you, lewd hussy!

DA,

This stuff is just plain prurient interest appealing and nasty. I hope you don't eat with same hand with which you typed this filth. If Papa Adequate knew...

Edited by NoNukes, : No reason given.


Under a government which imprisons any unjustly, the true place for a just man is also in prison. Thoreau: Civil Disobedience (1846)

History will have to record that the greatest tragedy of this period of social transition was not the strident clamor of the bad people, but the appalling silence of the good people. Martin Luther King

If there are no stupid questions, then what kind of questions do stupid people ask? Do they get smart just in time to ask questions? Scott Adams


This message is a reply to:
 Message 116 by Dr Adequate, posted 07-03-2015 12:23 AM Dr Adequate has not yet responded

  
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