Understanding through Discussion


Welcome! You are not logged in. [ Login ]
EvC Forum active members: 109 (8738 total)
Current session began: 
Page Loaded: 04-26-2017 11:23 PM
396 online now:
Coyote, CRR, Dr Adequate, Minnemooseus (Adminnemooseus) (4 members, 392 visitors)
Chatting now:  Chat room empty
Newest Member: Jayhawker Soule
Post Volume:
Total: 805,428 Year: 10,034/21,208 Month: 3,121/2,674 Week: 537/961 Day: 150/117 Hour: 3/18

Announcements: Reporting debate problems OR discussing moderation actions/inactions


Thread  Details

Email This Thread
Newer Topic | Older Topic
  
Prev1
2
345678Next
Author Topic:   Is Christianity Evil?
ringo
Member
Posts: 12915
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005
Member Rating: 2.6


Message 16 of 120 (761907)
07-06-2015 1:15 PM
Reply to: Message 15 by Tangle
07-06-2015 1:09 PM


Re: Division
Tangle writes:

examples of 'evil' Christian ideas are many


It's debatable whether those are "Christian ideas" or just ideas that some Christians have.
This message is a reply to:
 Message 15 by Tangle, posted 07-06-2015 1:09 PM Tangle has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 17 by jar, posted 07-06-2015 1:28 PM ringo has responded
 Message 20 by Tangle, posted 07-07-2015 4:53 AM ringo has responded

  
jar
Member
Posts: 28667
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004
Member Rating: 2.6


(1)
Message 17 of 120 (761911)
07-06-2015 1:28 PM
Reply to: Message 16 by ringo
07-06-2015 1:15 PM


Re: Division
Actually I have a real question whether more than two of Tangle's examples could even be remotely considered as evil.

Anyone so limited that they can only spell a word one way is severely handicapped!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 16 by ringo, posted 07-06-2015 1:15 PM ringo has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 18 by ringo, posted 07-06-2015 1:30 PM jar has not yet responded
 Message 21 by Tangle, posted 07-07-2015 4:56 AM jar has responded

  
ringo
Member
Posts: 12915
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005
Member Rating: 2.6


Message 18 of 120 (761912)
07-06-2015 1:30 PM
Reply to: Message 17 by jar
07-06-2015 1:28 PM


Re: Division
jar writes:

Actually I have a real question whether more than two of Tangle's examples could even be remotely considered as evil.


It does seem like a pretty low threshold of evil.
This message is a reply to:
 Message 17 by jar, posted 07-06-2015 1:28 PM jar has not yet responded

  
Jon
Inactive Member


Message 19 of 120 (761944)
07-06-2015 8:05 PM
Reply to: Message 7 by Tangle
07-06-2015 2:29 AM


Sheesh. A least give a tiny amount of context...

The context adds nothing. Your claim is still that:

Left to their own devices, religions would be as primitive and destructive as extreem Islam is today.
You also made the claim that (Message 1025):
It is supported by the evidence [that religions are inherently violent and only become non-violent through tempering by irreligion and secularism] - there's actually a lot of it.

Now's your chance to present that evidence.

Edited by Jon, : No reason given.


Love your enemies!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 7 by Tangle, posted 07-06-2015 2:29 AM Tangle has not yet responded

  
Tangle
Member
Posts: 4538
From: UK
Joined: 10-07-2011
Member Rating: 3.3


Message 20 of 120 (761969)
07-07-2015 4:53 AM
Reply to: Message 16 by ringo
07-06-2015 1:15 PM


Re: Division
Ringo writes:

It's debatable whether those are "Christian ideas" or just ideas that some Christians have.

They've all been invented by mainstream organisations that call themselves Christians. (Let's avoid the 'no true Christian' bollocks.)


Je suis Charlie. Je suis Ahmed. Je suis Juif.

Life, don't talk to me about life - Marvin the Paranoid Android

"Science adjusts it's views based on what's observed.
Faith is the denial of observation so that Belief can be preserved."
- Tim Minchin, in his beat poem, Storm.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 16 by ringo, posted 07-06-2015 1:15 PM ringo has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 33 by ringo, posted 07-07-2015 11:48 AM Tangle has responded

  
Tangle
Member
Posts: 4538
From: UK
Joined: 10-07-2011
Member Rating: 3.3


Message 21 of 120 (761970)
07-07-2015 4:56 AM
Reply to: Message 17 by jar
07-06-2015 1:28 PM


Re: Division
Jar writes:

Actually I have a real question whether more than two of Tangle's examples could even be remotely considered as evil.

Well I disagree, but I would have thought that two was enough to debunk a religion claiming to represent the ultimate good.


Je suis Charlie. Je suis Ahmed. Je suis Juif.

Life, don't talk to me about life - Marvin the Paranoid Android

"Science adjusts it's views based on what's observed.
Faith is the denial of observation so that Belief can be preserved."
- Tim Minchin, in his beat poem, Storm.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 17 by jar, posted 07-06-2015 1:28 PM jar has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 27 by jar, posted 07-07-2015 8:26 AM Tangle has responded

  
Faith
Member
Posts: 24426
Joined: 10-06-2001
Member Rating: 1.0


Message 22 of 120 (761972)
07-07-2015 6:10 AM
Reply to: Message 15 by Tangle
07-06-2015 1:09 PM


Re: Division
- only people that subscribe to their brand can get to heaven

I have to suppose that this is a garbled version of the teaching that Jesus died for our sins so that we won't go to Hell. Some denominations don't clearly preach this at all.

- babies that die before being christened can't get to heaven

Sounds Catholic to me. Nothing in the Bible supports this, but I suppose you are only interested in what some denominations say rather than what the Bible says.

- contraception is a mortal sin for which you go to hell

Definitely Catholic. It's weird how Catholicism divides sin into categories. The Bible makes it clear any sin whatever leads to Hell, and the only salvation from Hell is belief in Christ's death in our place.

- people are born with sin

Now that is Biblical. We wouldn't need salvation if it weren't true.

- women are inferior creatures

There is nothing whatever in the Bible that says such a thing. Historically men may have believed it nevertheless.

- the church can be super rich whilst taking money from the poor and preaching that you must give to the poor

Only the Catholic church could be called "super rich" -- oh except for some televangelists who fleece the flock, but they aren't a church. And while wealth is morally neutral, greed for it is a sin.

- you can buy indulgences

Catholic lie.

- prayer works

It certainly does if you believe rightly.

- heretics can be lawfully killed

Catholic evil.

- you can wage holy wars

I don't know who believes or teaches this. Wars just happen when there is unresolvable conflict. but it's far from the spirit of Biblical Christianity.

-- and so on

All in all an amazingly garbled list. Anything that deviates from the Bible and calls itself Christianity could be called evil though.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 15 by Tangle, posted 07-06-2015 1:09 PM Tangle has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 23 by Tangle, posted 07-07-2015 8:02 AM Faith has responded

    
Tangle
Member
Posts: 4538
From: UK
Joined: 10-07-2011
Member Rating: 3.3


Message 23 of 120 (761978)
07-07-2015 8:02 AM
Reply to: Message 22 by Faith
07-07-2015 6:10 AM


Re: Division
I know, Faith, only your kind of Christianity is true Christianity.

Billions beg to differ.


Je suis Charlie. Je suis Ahmed. Je suis Juif.

Life, don't talk to me about life - Marvin the Paranoid Android

"Science adjusts it's views based on what's observed.
Faith is the denial of observation so that Belief can be preserved."
- Tim Minchin, in his beat poem, Storm.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 22 by Faith, posted 07-07-2015 6:10 AM Faith has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 24 by Faith, posted 07-07-2015 8:04 AM Tangle has responded

  
Faith
Member
Posts: 24426
Joined: 10-06-2001
Member Rating: 1.0


Message 24 of 120 (761980)
07-07-2015 8:04 AM
Reply to: Message 23 by Tangle
07-07-2015 8:02 AM


Re: Division
Since when is truth determined by popularity?
This message is a reply to:
 Message 23 by Tangle, posted 07-07-2015 8:02 AM Tangle has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 25 by Tangle, posted 07-07-2015 8:13 AM Faith has not yet responded

    
Tangle
Member
Posts: 4538
From: UK
Joined: 10-07-2011
Member Rating: 3.3


Message 25 of 120 (761982)
07-07-2015 8:13 AM
Reply to: Message 24 by Faith
07-07-2015 8:04 AM


Re: Division
Faith writes:

Since when is truth determined by popularity?

Since when is truth determined by unpopularity?

A couple of points - it's rather obvious that my position is that no branch of Christianity is 'true'. Rather, that all branches of the brand - including your own - have made up all this nonsense and will continue to do so it seems.

Some of this nonsense causes people to do some very bad things and believe ideas that are bad for them. Hence 'evil', a rather silly word which I'm interpreting to mean harm of various sorts.


Je suis Charlie. Je suis Ahmed. Je suis Juif.

Life, don't talk to me about life - Marvin the Paranoid Android

"Science adjusts it's views based on what's observed.
Faith is the denial of observation so that Belief can be preserved."
- Tim Minchin, in his beat poem, Storm.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 24 by Faith, posted 07-07-2015 8:04 AM Faith has not yet responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 26 by Phat, posted 07-07-2015 8:20 AM Tangle has responded

  
Phat
Member
Posts: 9284
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.7


Message 26 of 120 (761983)
07-07-2015 8:20 AM
Reply to: Message 25 by Tangle
07-07-2015 8:13 AM


Re: Division
Tangle writes:

it's rather obvious that my position is that no branch of Christianity is 'true'. Rather, that all branches of the brand - including your own - have made up all this nonsense and will continue to do so it seems.

Can you show that any form of lifestyle and philosophy is anything other than made up?

God created war so that Americans would learn geography. Mark Twain
"A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." Mark Twain

This message is a reply to:
 Message 25 by Tangle, posted 07-07-2015 8:13 AM Tangle has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 30 by Tangle, posted 07-07-2015 9:52 AM Phat has acknowledged this reply

  
jar
Member
Posts: 28667
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004
Member Rating: 2.6


Message 27 of 120 (761984)
07-07-2015 8:26 AM
Reply to: Message 21 by Tangle
07-07-2015 4:56 AM


Re: Division
You are of course free to disagree. That is certainly your right.

But since neither of the two possible evils are universal or exclusive to Christianity or even to religions your position seems just plain silly.


Anyone so limited that they can only spell a word one way is severely handicapped!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 21 by Tangle, posted 07-07-2015 4:56 AM Tangle has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 28 by Tangle, posted 07-07-2015 9:49 AM jar has responded

  
Tangle
Member
Posts: 4538
From: UK
Joined: 10-07-2011
Member Rating: 3.3


Message 28 of 120 (761987)
07-07-2015 9:49 AM
Reply to: Message 27 by jar
07-07-2015 8:26 AM


Re: Division
Jar writes:

But since neither of the two possible evils are universal or exclusive to Christianity or even to religions your position seems just plain silly.

Christians believe different things. They badly agree on anything. The point is that religions have beliefs which are often harmful, some devastatingly so.


Je suis Charlie. Je suis Ahmed. Je suis Juif.

Life, don't talk to me about life - Marvin the Paranoid Android

"Science adjusts it's views based on what's observed.
Faith is the denial of observation so that Belief can be preserved."
- Tim Minchin, in his beat poem, Storm.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 27 by jar, posted 07-07-2015 8:26 AM jar has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 29 by jar, posted 07-07-2015 9:51 AM Tangle has not yet responded

  
jar
Member
Posts: 28667
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004
Member Rating: 2.6


(1)
Message 29 of 120 (761988)
07-07-2015 9:51 AM
Reply to: Message 28 by Tangle
07-07-2015 9:49 AM


Re: Division
Let me fix that for you.

The point is that people have beliefs which are often harmful, some devastatingly so.


Anyone so limited that they can only spell a word one way is severely handicapped!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 28 by Tangle, posted 07-07-2015 9:49 AM Tangle has not yet responded

  
Tangle
Member
Posts: 4538
From: UK
Joined: 10-07-2011
Member Rating: 3.3


Message 30 of 120 (761989)
07-07-2015 9:52 AM
Reply to: Message 26 by Phat
07-07-2015 8:20 AM


Re: Division
Phat writes:

Can you show that any form of lifestyle and philosophy is anything other than made up?

Why would I want to do that? We're talking about religions - they're universally man made with no empirical backing.


Je suis Charlie. Je suis Ahmed. Je suis Juif.

Life, don't talk to me about life - Marvin the Paranoid Android

"Science adjusts it's views based on what's observed.
Faith is the denial of observation so that Belief can be preserved."
- Tim Minchin, in his beat poem, Storm.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 26 by Phat, posted 07-07-2015 8:20 AM Phat has acknowledged this reply

  
Prev1
2
345678Next
Newer Topic | Older Topic
Jump to:


Copyright 2001-2015 by EvC Forum, All Rights Reserved

™ Version 4.0 Beta
Innovative software from Qwixotic © 2017