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Author Topic:   White Privilege
Faith 
Suspended Member (Idle past 1445 days)
Posts: 35298
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001


Message 61 of 276 (766630)
08-19-2015 5:15 PM
Reply to: Message 49 by Dr Adequate
08-19-2015 1:59 PM


Re: Judge Not
Yes perhaps you are Marie of Romania.

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 Message 49 by Dr Adequate, posted 08-19-2015 1:59 PM Dr Adequate has not replied

  
Taq
Member
Posts: 9973
Joined: 03-06-2009
Member Rating: 5.7


(1)
Message 62 of 276 (766635)
08-19-2015 6:09 PM


The Open Carry Test
There are several videos on Youtube and elsewhere showing what happens when a white person and a black person legally and openly carry firearms in public in some predominantly white communities. White guy, everyone leaves alone. Black guy is constantly being harassed by police.
I don't know if xenophobia is more nature or nurture, but it is real. It isn't something that we should just brush aside and ignore. We should face it for what it is, and do our best to limit its impact on our society.

  
Phat
Member
Posts: 18262
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 63 of 276 (766636)
08-19-2015 6:09 PM
Reply to: Message 53 by Tangle
08-19-2015 3:54 PM


Re: some privilege
Tangle writes:
It's not wrong for any class of people to aspire to that kind of freedom and those that have should only be criticised if they pull up the ladder and discriminate against those that haven't got there.
Exactly. im all for others gaining the rights I now have as well as the invisible perks. Perhaps it these perks which white people don't understand. they grew up with them, it could be said.
Thus I see the argument. Again, there are no easy solutions.
Should the wealthier man be required to give more liberally than the poor man?
By analogy, are white people "wealthier" sociologically than are minorities?
Should this giving be forced or merely encouraged? I say the latter. If you try and force it you will create a whole new set of problems.

Chance as a real force is a myth. It has no basis in reality and no place in scientific inquiry. For science and philosophy to continue to advance in knowledge, chance must be demythologized once and for all. —RC Sproul
"A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." —Mark Twain

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Coyote
Member (Idle past 2106 days)
Posts: 6117
Joined: 01-12-2008


Message 64 of 276 (766643)
08-19-2015 8:19 PM


Why White People Seek Black Privilege
Why White People Seek Black Privilege
With Milo Yiannopoulos’ shocking report that Black Lives Matter activist Shaun King is in fact white — according to Yiannopoulos, quoting blogger Vicki Page, King is white and has been lying about his ethnicity for years — taboo questions now arise about the nature of race in America.
King, of course, isn’t the first leading black activist with no black biological background: Rachel Dolezal, former head of the Spokane, Washington NAACP and adjunct professor of African-American studies at Eastern Washington, turned out to be a white woman.
However, King was a key figure in the same movement that now runs the Democratic Party, using the tools of racial victimhood and division to leverage power.
All of this demonstrates one undeniable fact: being black in America in 2015 is perceived as a status symbol and an advantage. ...
more
Why White People Seek Black Privilege

Religious belief does not constitute scientific evidence, nor does it convey scientific knowledge.
Belief gets in the way of learning--Robert A. Heinlein
How can I possibly put a new idea into your heads, if I do not first remove your delusions?--Robert A. Heinlein
It's not what we don't know that hurts, it's what we know that ain't so--Will Rogers
If I am entitled to something, someone else is obliged to pay--Jerry Pournelle
If a religion's teachings are true, then it should have nothing to fear from science...--dwise1
"Multiculturalism" demands that the US be tolerant of everything except its own past, culture, traditions, and identity.

Replies to this message:
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ramoss
Member (Idle past 612 days)
Posts: 3228
Joined: 08-11-2004


Message 65 of 276 (766646)
08-19-2015 9:02 PM
Reply to: Message 48 by Tangle
08-19-2015 1:31 PM


Re: some privilege
That is what we inspire too, and that would be wonderful if it happens.
it, however, does not.
If you don't have to think about it, and other people do, then it's a privilege.
Here is a picture that is a perfect example of privilege... and a way that someone made to make a disadvantage less than a privilege. It's not 'white/black' but able bodied verses disabled.

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AZPaul3
Member
Posts: 8513
From: Phoenix
Joined: 11-06-2006
Member Rating: 5.3


Message 66 of 276 (766647)
08-19-2015 9:03 PM
Reply to: Message 57 by New Cat's Eye
08-19-2015 4:38 PM


Re: some privilege
It kinda reminds me of a lady I heard bitching about how requiring liability insurance and annual registrations discriminated against black people owning cars.
If that is true then it shows there are crazy people everywhere. It does not negate the reality of racism in voter registration laws.
One example: In a Louisiana parish the powers that be moved a precinct polling place from the fire station in a black neighborhood where it had been for years further out to the Sheriff's Posse Club in the white neighborhood. Can you spell intimidation?

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ramoss
Member (Idle past 612 days)
Posts: 3228
Joined: 08-11-2004


Message 67 of 276 (766648)
08-19-2015 9:04 PM
Reply to: Message 64 by Coyote
08-19-2015 8:19 PM


Re: Why White People Seek Black Privilege
OF course, you do realise that this accusation is being denied..
Can you show that it actually is true, not just someone lying, trying to discredit the black life matters movement?
Worker threw exception | www.rawstory.com | Cloudflare

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Dr Adequate
Member (Idle past 285 days)
Posts: 16113
Joined: 07-20-2006


(1)
Message 68 of 276 (766651)
08-19-2015 9:16 PM
Reply to: Message 64 by Coyote
08-19-2015 8:19 PM


Re: Why White People Seek Black Privilege
All of this demonstrates one undeniable fact: being black in America in 2015 is perceived as a status symbol and an advantage. ...
By two people. This is less than the number of people who have perceived having holes drilled in their heads as an advantage. It's possible that both groups are wrong.

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Coyote
Member (Idle past 2106 days)
Posts: 6117
Joined: 01-12-2008


Message 69 of 276 (766652)
08-19-2015 9:16 PM
Reply to: Message 67 by ramoss
08-19-2015 9:04 PM


Re: Why White People Seek Black Privilege
Easy enough to prove one way or the other.
And doesn't matter either way. Its all nonsense.

Religious belief does not constitute scientific evidence, nor does it convey scientific knowledge.
Belief gets in the way of learning--Robert A. Heinlein
How can I possibly put a new idea into your heads, if I do not first remove your delusions?--Robert A. Heinlein
It's not what we don't know that hurts, it's what we know that ain't so--Will Rogers
If I am entitled to something, someone else is obliged to pay--Jerry Pournelle
If a religion's teachings are true, then it should have nothing to fear from science...--dwise1
"Multiculturalism" demands that the US be tolerant of everything except its own past, culture, traditions, and identity.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 67 by ramoss, posted 08-19-2015 9:04 PM ramoss has not replied

  
Jon
Inactive Member


Message 70 of 276 (766655)
08-19-2015 9:38 PM
Reply to: Message 66 by AZPaul3
08-19-2015 9:03 PM


Re: some privilege
In a Louisiana parish the powers that be moved a precinct polling place from the fire station in a black neighborhood where it had been for years further out to the Sheriff's Posse Club in the white neighborhood. Can you spell intimidation?
That goes both ways. Lot of white folk are scared to go into black neighborhoods.
Edited by Jon, : No reason given.

Love your enemies!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 66 by AZPaul3, posted 08-19-2015 9:03 PM AZPaul3 has replied

Replies to this message:
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AZPaul3
Member
Posts: 8513
From: Phoenix
Joined: 11-06-2006
Member Rating: 5.3


(2)
Message 71 of 276 (766657)
08-19-2015 10:04 PM
Reply to: Message 53 by Tangle
08-19-2015 3:54 PM


Re: some privilege
The whole idea of privilege is a wrong-headed anachronism. It's not wrong for any class of people to aspire to that kind of freedom and those that have should only be criticised if they pull up the ladder and discriminate against those that haven't got there.
This is a white society. Here and in Europe. On average, the white population has access to better education, medical care and housing. This leads to better employment prospects, higher wages and salaries, status in society, respect and deference, political/judicial consideration and power.
Again, on average non-whites are not afforded these same opportunities to this same degree.
There is an advantage to being white in this society. There is no claim of white privilege by white society ('cept from the crazies as always). The phrase "white privilege" is from those who are disadvantaged by being non-white in this white society. Born of racism and bigotry to be sure but the disadvantages exist.
You can argue the semantics all you want, but those that are given the short end of the stick see the greater opportunities enjoyed by whites as the privilege of being white in this white society.
White privilege is NOT meant as a positive to whites but as the description of a major problem in our society. As with any problem, the first step to correcting it is to acknowledge it is there, that it exists.
White privilege in this society is not some wrong-headed anachronism foisted by egghead liberals onto the political scene but is a reality on the ground that needs to be acknowledged and changed if all peoples are to share, as equals, in the benefits of our society.
Edited by AZPaul3, : No reason given.
Edited by AZPaul3, : No reason given.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 53 by Tangle, posted 08-19-2015 3:54 PM Tangle has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 73 by Tangle, posted 08-20-2015 2:04 AM AZPaul3 has replied
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AZPaul3
Member
Posts: 8513
From: Phoenix
Joined: 11-06-2006
Member Rating: 5.3


(3)
Message 72 of 276 (766661)
08-19-2015 11:37 PM
Reply to: Message 70 by Jon
08-19-2015 9:38 PM


Re: some privilege
That goes both ways. Lot of white folk are scared to go into black neighborhoods.
How many white precincts have their polling places in black neighborhoods, Jon?
If you want to argue then get real. Your response is bullshit.

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Tangle
Member
Posts: 9489
From: UK
Joined: 10-07-2011
Member Rating: 4.9


Message 73 of 276 (766674)
08-20-2015 2:04 AM
Reply to: Message 71 by AZPaul3
08-19-2015 10:04 PM


Re: some privilege
AZPaul writes:
You can argue the semantics all you want, but those that are given the short end of the stick see the greater opportunities enjoyed by whites as the privilege of being white in this white society.
I have no desire to argue semantics - a greater waste of time has not yet been invented - and I totally agree that some large sectors of our societies are disadvantaged by their ethnicity and background (not just blacks but also the disabled, the poor and the uneducated.)
I'm simply making the point that those enjoying the full freedoms of society should not be regarded as having a negative value in that society; calling it a white privilege as though it's a status granted by decree to an elite few is both wrong and devisive. It's the status of the disadvantaged that is the negative, the status of the advantaged is what our societies says should be the norm - it's not a privilege to achieve a right, it's what should be expected of all.

Je suis Charlie. Je suis Ahmed. Je suis Juif.
Life, don't talk to me about life - Marvin the Paranoid Android
"Science adjusts it's views based on what's observed.
Faith is the denial of observation so that Belief can be preserved."
- Tim Minchin, in his beat poem, Storm.

This message is a reply to:
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Replies to this message:
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AZPaul3
Member
Posts: 8513
From: Phoenix
Joined: 11-06-2006
Member Rating: 5.3


Message 74 of 276 (766678)
08-20-2015 3:08 AM
Reply to: Message 73 by Tangle
08-20-2015 2:04 AM


Re: some privilege
I'm simply making the point that those enjoying the full freedoms of society should not be regarded as having a negative value in that society; calling it a white privilege as though it's a status granted by decree to an elite few is both wrong and devisive.
Understood. I disagree. The concept is accurate for what it describes regardless of some personal feelings on the word privilege. Is it divisive? Only if one seeks to deny the reality it represents.
it's not a privilege to achieve a right, it's what should be expected of all.
Not about rights, Tangle. This is about opportunity and quality of life.
But a good point. We can hardly undo a privilege-segmented society when there are disparities in rights. Rights must be recognized, granted and assured. But even then the opportunities to exercise those rights in full cannot be achieved in a society where privilege exists. The rights side is coming along ... slowly ... but moving. We haven't even begun to address the privilege side of this equation.
Edited by AZPaul3, : No reason given.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 73 by Tangle, posted 08-20-2015 2:04 AM Tangle has replied

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Phat
Member
Posts: 18262
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 75 of 276 (766680)
08-20-2015 3:19 AM
Reply to: Message 73 by Tangle
08-20-2015 2:04 AM


Re: some privilege
Tangle writes:
I'm simply making the point that those enjoying the full freedoms of society should not be regarded as having a negative value in that society; calling it a white privilege as though it's a status granted by decree to an elite few is both wrong and divisive.
The reason that there is no easy solution to this is because even if an artificial construct was used by the power of the majority race, correcting this will have to involve some sort of power that takes away from that same group. In my mind, two wrongs don't make a right.
I agree that everyone should be aware of the problem. What I don't agree with is any legislation of power that seeks to take back or take away.
Jar and I used to argue about the Native Americans. I told him that I would never agree to simply give the land back to them---that it would involve hurting a whole new group of people.
Granted the Indians were treated wrong. Granted even that many benefited from this injustice. Point being that taking the land back would cause more harm than good. Some things just need to be forgiven.
Arnold was born with better genes than I was. I could lift weights until the cows came home and never look like him. Should Arnold be punished for superior genetics?
And what of wealthy people and the privilege they enjoy? Should we force all of them to give up their excess money?
Point being that privilege exists in society in many forms.
I agree that "white" people need to be aware. I disagree that any forcible way to somehow level the playing field be instituted against the race at large.
Edited by Phat, : add

Chance as a real force is a myth. It has no basis in reality and no place in scientific inquiry. For science and philosophy to continue to advance in knowledge, chance must be demythologized once and for all. —RC Sproul
"A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." —Mark Twain

This message is a reply to:
 Message 73 by Tangle, posted 08-20-2015 2:04 AM Tangle has not replied

Replies to this message:
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