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Author Topic:   Religions are fairy tales for adults. Should we encourage them to grow up?
ringo
Member (Idle past 411 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


Message 9 of 424 (766440)
08-18-2015 12:29 PM
Reply to: Message 1 by Greatest I am
08-04-2015 11:31 AM


Greatest I am writes:
Religions are fairy tales for adults. Should we encourage them to grow up?
No. Fiction is valuable and important for everybody.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1 by Greatest I am, posted 08-04-2015 11:31 AM Greatest I am has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 10 by Greatest I am, posted 08-18-2015 1:05 PM ringo has replied

  
ringo
Member (Idle past 411 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


Message 11 of 424 (766452)
08-18-2015 1:08 PM
Reply to: Message 10 by Greatest I am
08-18-2015 1:05 PM


Greatest I am writes:
I agree, but the bit of fiction under discussion, the bible and Qur'an, have been used forever to discriminate against women and gays without a just cause.
Any fiction can be used for good or bad purposes. You can't eliminate bad things by telling people to just say no to fiction.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 10 by Greatest I am, posted 08-18-2015 1:05 PM Greatest I am has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 12 by Greatest I am, posted 08-18-2015 1:17 PM ringo has replied

  
ringo
Member (Idle past 411 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


Message 13 of 424 (766457)
08-18-2015 1:24 PM
Reply to: Message 12 by Greatest I am
08-18-2015 1:17 PM


Greatest I am writes:
Correct, but when they are reading it in a way other than fiction, and giving it credence that push them to harm others without a just cause, then correcting their poor reading habits and beliefs would be quite good for society as a whole.
You can't tell people to "correct" their reading habits. The people with the worst reading habits are the ones who are least likely to pay any attention to you.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 12 by Greatest I am, posted 08-18-2015 1:17 PM Greatest I am has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 14 by Greatest I am, posted 08-18-2015 1:30 PM ringo has replied

  
ringo
Member (Idle past 411 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


Message 15 of 424 (766461)
08-18-2015 1:31 PM
Reply to: Message 14 by Greatest I am
08-18-2015 1:30 PM


Greatest I am writes:
For evil to grow, all good people need do is nothing.
Doing nothing may be bad but doing the wrong thing is worse.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 14 by Greatest I am, posted 08-18-2015 1:30 PM Greatest I am has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 16 by Greatest I am, posted 08-18-2015 1:44 PM ringo has replied

  
ringo
Member (Idle past 411 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


Message 17 of 424 (766599)
08-19-2015 3:08 PM
Reply to: Message 16 by Greatest I am
08-18-2015 1:44 PM


Greatest I am writes:
... go ahead and do nothing if you prefer.
I'm not advocating doing nothing. I'm just objecting to your silly suggestion.
Greatest I am writes:
Trial and error will eventually show the best path.
How many bad topics do you have to start before you eventually see a better path?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 16 by Greatest I am, posted 08-18-2015 1:44 PM Greatest I am has not replied

  
ringo
Member (Idle past 411 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


Message 40 of 424 (766763)
08-21-2015 11:59 AM
Reply to: Message 34 by Greatest I am
08-20-2015 9:34 PM


Greatest I am writes:
Love, to be true love is close to what St. James said of faith. Without works and deed, it is dead.
Agreed.
Greatest I am writes:
Love to be true love also needs reciprocity. One cannot love alone.
Nonsense. You're just making up the definition to fit your point.
Greatest I am writes:
Can you love your enemy?
Of course you can. There are all kinds of examples of people in wartime helping their enemies.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 34 by Greatest I am, posted 08-20-2015 9:34 PM Greatest I am has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 62 by Greatest I am, posted 08-25-2015 7:43 AM ringo has replied

  
ringo
Member (Idle past 411 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


Message 77 of 424 (767024)
08-25-2015 11:50 AM
Reply to: Message 62 by Greatest I am
08-25-2015 7:43 AM


Greatest I am writes:
If works and deeds are required for true love, the both parties would need to act thus reciprocity must ne there or at least the desire must be assumed.
Nonsense. For example, if my neighbour's garbage can gets knocked over and spilled, I can clean up the mess without him even knowing about it. No reciprocity needed.
Greatest I am writes:
There are not many wartime stories of someone helping the enemy....
On the contrary, every civilized nation gives medical aid to soldiers from both sides.
Greatest I am writes:
... such traitorous acts do not occur unless the perpetrator does not see the enemy as the enemy.
More nonsense. Humane treatment of enemy wounded is required by international convention. You're the only one who sees it as treason.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 62 by Greatest I am, posted 08-25-2015 7:43 AM Greatest I am has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 79 by Greatest I am, posted 08-25-2015 11:58 AM ringo has replied

  
ringo
Member (Idle past 411 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


Message 78 of 424 (767025)
08-25-2015 11:57 AM
Reply to: Message 70 by Faith
08-25-2015 10:09 AM


Faith writes:
Eye for an eye is indeed an obvious expression of perfect justice, which is what criminal prosecution should aim for.
Jesus disagrees:
quote:
Matthew 5:38-42 Ye have heard that it hath been said , An eye for an eye, and a tooth for a tooth: But I say unto you, That ye resist not evil: but whosoever shall smite thee on thy right cheek, turn to him the other also. And if any man will sue thee at the law , and take away thy coat, let him have thy cloke also. And whosoever shall compel thee to go a mile, go with him twain. Give to him that asketh thee, and from him that would borrow of thee turn not thou away.
If a burglar steals your TV, track him down and give him your DVD player too.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 70 by Faith, posted 08-25-2015 10:09 AM Faith has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 81 by Faith, posted 08-25-2015 2:20 PM ringo has replied

  
ringo
Member (Idle past 411 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


Message 80 of 424 (767027)
08-25-2015 12:03 PM
Reply to: Message 79 by Greatest I am
08-25-2015 11:58 AM


Greatest I am writes:
Forced aid is hardly loving the enemy.
What are you talking about? How is helping a wounded soldier "forced"? How is helping the enemy wounded less loving than helping the friendly wounded?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 79 by Greatest I am, posted 08-25-2015 11:58 AM Greatest I am has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 83 by Greatest I am, posted 08-25-2015 5:03 PM ringo has replied

  
ringo
Member (Idle past 411 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


Message 103 of 424 (767138)
08-26-2015 11:55 AM
Reply to: Message 81 by Faith
08-25-2015 2:20 PM


Faith writes:
Ringo, I already answered that claim, I'm not going to answer it again.
I didn't make any claim. I just quoted Jesus.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 81 by Faith, posted 08-25-2015 2:20 PM Faith has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 105 by Faith, posted 08-26-2015 12:38 PM ringo has replied

  
ringo
Member (Idle past 411 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


Message 104 of 424 (767139)
08-26-2015 12:00 PM
Reply to: Message 83 by Greatest I am
08-25-2015 5:03 PM


Greatest I am writes:
Doing something so as not to be charged with a war crime is not love.
A soldier on the battlefield doesn't have to worry about war crimes. He could walk right past that wounded enemy and nobody would ever fault him for it. Many do - but some don't. They risk their own safety to help a fellow human being. If that isn't love, you have a strange definition of love.
Greatest I am writes:
Further, we are talking of individuals loving and the deeds are only going the one way in the scenario you envisage.
That's exactly what I'm saying: Love certainly CAN go only one way; it does NOT have to be reciprocal.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 83 by Greatest I am, posted 08-25-2015 5:03 PM Greatest I am has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 113 by Greatest I am, posted 08-26-2015 2:21 PM ringo has replied

  
ringo
Member (Idle past 411 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


Message 106 of 424 (767148)
08-26-2015 12:42 PM
Reply to: Message 105 by Faith
08-26-2015 12:38 PM


Faith writes:
Jesus was talking to individuals as usual, not to the criminal prosecutor of a state.
In a democracy, the individuals are responsible for the actions of the state.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 105 by Faith, posted 08-26-2015 12:38 PM Faith has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 107 by Faith, posted 08-26-2015 1:20 PM ringo has replied
 Message 115 by Greatest I am, posted 08-26-2015 2:27 PM ringo has replied

  
ringo
Member (Idle past 411 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


(1)
Message 108 of 424 (767155)
08-26-2015 1:30 PM
Reply to: Message 107 by Faith
08-26-2015 1:20 PM


Faith writes:
Jesus was talking about how individuals should deal with a slap on the cheek or the stealing of a cloak. That's not a recipe for the prosecution of criminal cases.
Jesus was correcting the misconception that people like you have about "an eye for an eye".
quote:
Exodus 21:23-25 And if any mischief follow, then thou shalt give life for life, Eye for eye, tooth for tooth, hand for hand, foot for foot, Burning for burning, wound for wound, stripe for stripe.
Thou shalt GIVE, not thou shalt take - i.e. if you put out somebody's eye, you owe him an eye. An example is given in the next verse:
quote:
Exodus 21:26 And if a man smite the eye of his servant, or the eye of his maid, that it perish; he shall let him go free for his eye's sake.
If you take one eye, you give up all claim to the other one.
It's not an excuse for vengeance; it's a repayment scheme.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 107 by Faith, posted 08-26-2015 1:20 PM Faith has not replied

  
ringo
Member (Idle past 411 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


Message 135 of 424 (767240)
08-27-2015 11:44 AM
Reply to: Message 113 by Greatest I am
08-26-2015 2:21 PM


Greatest I am writes:
Altruistic acts can go only the one way. Love takes 2.
You keep repeating yourself but you're still wrong. What's the difference between altruism and love?
Greatest I am writes:
You will know those you love and who love you by what you do for each other.
You will know those you love by what you are willing to do for them. You will know who loves you by what they do for you. Love can go in either direction or both.
Parents will do almost anything for their children whether the children do anything in return or not. Are you claiming that parents don't love their children?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 113 by Greatest I am, posted 08-26-2015 2:21 PM Greatest I am has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 140 by Greatest I am, posted 08-27-2015 12:00 PM ringo has replied

  
ringo
Member (Idle past 411 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


Message 136 of 424 (767241)
08-27-2015 11:45 AM
Reply to: Message 115 by Greatest I am
08-26-2015 2:27 PM


Greatest I am writes:
Then again, we live in oligarchies and not democracies.
Try to be wrong about one thing at a time.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 115 by Greatest I am, posted 08-26-2015 2:27 PM Greatest I am has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 137 by Greatest I am, posted 08-27-2015 11:50 AM ringo has replied

  
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