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Author Topic:   Religions are fairy tales for adults. Should we encourage them to grow up?
Dr Adequate
Member (Idle past 285 days)
Posts: 16113
Joined: 07-20-2006


(1)
Message 46 of 424 (766792)
08-21-2015 8:31 PM
Reply to: Message 45 by Faith
08-21-2015 8:13 PM


Refusing to recognize gay marriage is now a crime.
Not really. You could look at a gay marriage all you like and say "No, I don't know what it is ... could it be three large chickens playing canasta?" and no-one would lift a finger to stop you.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 45 by Faith, posted 08-21-2015 8:13 PM Faith has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 47 by Faith, posted 08-21-2015 8:40 PM Dr Adequate has replied

  
Dr Adequate
Member (Idle past 285 days)
Posts: 16113
Joined: 07-20-2006


Message 48 of 424 (766807)
08-21-2015 11:10 PM
Reply to: Message 47 by Faith
08-21-2015 8:40 PM


Chrjstian businesses asked to perform a service for a gay wedding were already being treated as criminal for refusing to do so before the SCOTUS decision; that can only increase
Even they weren't asked to recognize it, just to make cakes.
Now, if the authorities were inclined to, they could arrest a pastor for preaching from the parts of the Bible that affirm marriage as for one man and one woman and that homosexuality is a sin.
No.
For that matter, they could come knock on my door and inquire what my opinion of gay marriage is, and if I say it's a violation of God's law they could arrest me.
No.
That they haven't yet done so and may not for some time is really kind of irrelevant when the law says they could.
No. This is why you can't find the law that says they could.
And there is every reason to believe that there are plenty of gay activists who are gearing up for just this sort of campaign.
Every reason, you say? Well I'd hate to think that there were just one or two, or indeed the zero you allude to in your post.
But they're "gearing up", you say? That suggests not merely the likelihood, but also the imminence of the Great Homophobe Purge. And so I would once more like to offer you a bet. You just say when you expect all this to go down. We could have a little wager. How about if I'm right, I win $100, and if you're right ... I'll let you hide in my basement.
Do you really believe any of this stuff you come out with?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 47 by Faith, posted 08-21-2015 8:40 PM Faith has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 49 by Faith, posted 08-21-2015 11:39 PM Dr Adequate has replied
 Message 50 by Faith, posted 08-21-2015 11:54 PM Dr Adequate has not replied

  
Dr Adequate
Member (Idle past 285 days)
Posts: 16113
Joined: 07-20-2006


Message 51 of 424 (766811)
08-22-2015 12:04 AM
Reply to: Message 49 by Faith
08-21-2015 11:39 PM


You are playing word games. "Recognize" in this context means to treat it as valid, which Bible believing Christians will not do.
They don't have to do that either. Unless they're bureaucrats.
Oh this should start soon I would think, next few months even. A single instance of challenging a Christian business enough for you?
"Challenging a Christian business"? I don't even know what you mean by that. But what you wrote was: "Now, if the authorities were inclined to, they could arrest a pastor for preaching from the parts of the Bible that affirm marriage as for one man and one woman and that homosexuality is a sin. For that matter, they could come knock on my door and inquire what my opinion of gay marriage is, and if I say it's a violation of God's law they could arrest me. That they haven't yet done so and may not for some time is really kind of irrelevant when the law says they could. And there is every reason to believe that there are plenty of gay activists who are gearing up for just this sort of campaign." Do you actually think this will happen?
Do they have basements in Las Vegas? I thought there was too much danger of flash flooding for that.
We don't, I said that for the purposes of drama. When the day comes, I shall hide you in my spare bedroom.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 49 by Faith, posted 08-21-2015 11:39 PM Faith has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 52 by Faith, posted 08-22-2015 8:43 AM Dr Adequate has replied

  
Dr Adequate
Member (Idle past 285 days)
Posts: 16113
Joined: 07-20-2006


Message 60 of 424 (766831)
08-22-2015 11:29 AM
Reply to: Message 52 by Faith
08-22-2015 8:43 AM


"Challenging a Christian business" just means asking for service for a gay wedding which of course the business will refuse ..
Not necessarily: even Christians will sometimes follow the teachings of Jesus and the law.
Yes I believe all that I said could very well happen in the near future.
No, I don't feel like betting again, I already have a bet in with you ...
And you wouldn't like to win even more of my money? You could really clean up here, with your singular talent for predicting the future.
If you want to hide Christians, though, you need to build a space behind fake walls as some of the Dutch did for the Jews in WWII.
I was thinking of just telling everyone you're an atheist. Christians look just like regular people.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 52 by Faith, posted 08-22-2015 8:43 AM Faith has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 61 by Faith, posted 08-22-2015 2:30 PM Dr Adequate has not replied

  
Dr Adequate
Member (Idle past 285 days)
Posts: 16113
Joined: 07-20-2006


Message 109 of 424 (767158)
08-26-2015 1:53 PM
Reply to: Message 101 by Faith
08-25-2015 9:08 PM


I'm not required to treat Hinduism as a "valid religion," whatever that means. Far as I know I can call Hinduism a satanic idolatrous religion without being treated like a criminal. But the same is not true if I say the Bible calls homosexuality a sin and makes gay marriage a violation of God's marriage ordinance.
No.
Hence my offer of a wager.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 101 by Faith, posted 08-25-2015 9:08 PM Faith has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 110 by Faith, posted 08-26-2015 2:05 PM Dr Adequate has not replied

  
Dr Adequate
Member (Idle past 285 days)
Posts: 16113
Joined: 07-20-2006


(1)
Message 127 of 424 (767186)
08-26-2015 6:08 PM
Reply to: Message 126 by Faith
08-26-2015 4:23 PM


People make the dumb mistake of thinking His preaching applies to the criminal justice system, so I've been answering that, since Jesus taught individuals and didn't address the powers that be ...
Quite so. What God said should by no means form any part of our legal system, except maybe the bits about being mean to gay people.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 126 by Faith, posted 08-26-2015 4:23 PM Faith has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 129 by Faith, posted 08-26-2015 7:17 PM Dr Adequate has replied

  
Dr Adequate
Member (Idle past 285 days)
Posts: 16113
Joined: 07-20-2006


Message 141 of 424 (767248)
08-27-2015 12:05 PM
Reply to: Message 129 by Faith
08-26-2015 7:17 PM


No, what God said should and did have plenty to do with our justice system, back when it was rational and based on the Ten Commandments.
It never was, Faith. Otherwise someone would have stoned your grandparents to death for working on Saturday, and we would not be having this conversation.
Jesus was not speaking to the justice system but to individual believers. Eye for an eye is a principle of perfect justice.
You have heard that it was said, ‘An eye for an eye and a tooth for a tooth.’ But I say to you, Do not resist the one who is evil. But if anyone slaps you on the right cheek, turn to him the other also. And if anyone would sue you and take your tunic,[a] let him have your cloak as well. And if anyone forces you to go one mile, go with him two miles. Give to the one who begs from you, and do not refuse the one who would borrow from you.
And I'm not sure I follow your argument about individual believers. You seem to be saying that we personally should behave and turn our hearts towards what Jesus said about forgiveness, but that we should at the same time direct the State, which is under our command, towards Old Testament notions of retribution.
I don't see how you can get that to work. To understand my bafflement, imagine an ancient Roman saying "I don't personally think that Christians should be thrown to the lions. I do, however, have a sincerely held religious belief that the Emperor Nero should throw the Christians to the lions, and I will support him in that endeavor in whatever way I can."
He has, you see, a personal morality, which affects no-one and nothing except his good opinion of himself, and then also he has a public morality which will hurt the people he hates while (as he thinks) keeping his hands and conscience clean.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 129 by Faith, posted 08-26-2015 7:17 PM Faith has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 152 by Faith, posted 08-27-2015 2:13 PM Dr Adequate has not replied

  
Dr Adequate
Member (Idle past 285 days)
Posts: 16113
Joined: 07-20-2006


(5)
Message 181 of 424 (767402)
08-28-2015 11:26 PM
Reply to: Message 177 by Faith
08-28-2015 8:05 PM


Re: Clerk refuses to issue marriage license to gays
Some people say how exciting it is to be alive as prophecy unfolds before our eyes. I used to think that would be the case. I don't any more. It's nothing but grief, sadness.
So, just to check. When you thought the End Times were going to involve death, famine, pestilence, war, locusts with human faces stinging people, the reign of the Antichrist, and so forth, you were actually looking forward to that ... but instead you find that the future holds such terrors as people you'll never meet contracting a marriage which is none of your business, and now you're horrified. That's just nasty.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 177 by Faith, posted 08-28-2015 8:05 PM Faith has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 182 by Coyote, posted 08-28-2015 11:41 PM Dr Adequate has not replied
 Message 187 by Faith, posted 08-29-2015 5:07 AM Dr Adequate has replied
 Message 192 by Greatest I am, posted 08-29-2015 9:08 AM Dr Adequate has not replied

  
Dr Adequate
Member (Idle past 285 days)
Posts: 16113
Joined: 07-20-2006


Message 199 of 424 (767450)
08-29-2015 1:09 PM
Reply to: Message 188 by Faith
08-29-2015 5:13 AM


Re: Clerk refuses to issue marriage license to gays
How can it be so hard to get what I'm saying? This is not about other people's sins. This is about Christians being required by the law to act in a way that violates God's commandments to US. What the homosexuals are doing is not the problem, it's what WE are asked to do by this law that is the problem. WE are being asked to treat gay marriage as valid. That violates God's law. We are not being asked to validate Hinduism.
You are being asked to treat Hindu marriages as valid too, even though they're conducted by heathen priests in the name of false gods before pagan idols as condemned in the First Commandment. No-one has objected to this, possibly 'cos of not hating Hindus so much as they hate gay people.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 188 by Faith, posted 08-29-2015 5:13 AM Faith has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 201 by Faith, posted 08-29-2015 1:21 PM Dr Adequate has replied

  
Dr Adequate
Member (Idle past 285 days)
Posts: 16113
Joined: 07-20-2006


(1)
Message 200 of 424 (767451)
08-29-2015 1:11 PM
Reply to: Message 187 by Faith
08-29-2015 5:07 AM


Re: Clerk refuses to issue marriage license to gays
I don't get anywhere near the heavy stuff of Revelation you list before I'm overcome with grief.
It almost makes you wish, doesn't it, that God had thought up some nice way for the world to end? Being supplied with infinite quantities of love and mercy, he might actually have used some of it.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 187 by Faith, posted 08-29-2015 5:07 AM Faith has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 203 by Faith, posted 08-29-2015 1:26 PM Dr Adequate has replied

  
Dr Adequate
Member (Idle past 285 days)
Posts: 16113
Joined: 07-20-2006


(1)
Message 209 of 424 (767462)
08-29-2015 2:12 PM
Reply to: Message 205 by Faith
08-29-2015 1:28 PM


Re: Clerk refuses to issue marriage license to gays
Homosexuality is condemned under Thou Shalt Not Commit Adultery.
No.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 205 by Faith, posted 08-29-2015 1:28 PM Faith has not replied

  
Dr Adequate
Member (Idle past 285 days)
Posts: 16113
Joined: 07-20-2006


Message 210 of 424 (767463)
08-29-2015 2:13 PM
Reply to: Message 203 by Faith
08-29-2015 1:26 PM


Re: Clerk refuses to issue marriage license to gays
No. It hurts to see the world go so bad such an end is necessary, especially formerly Christian nations. It doesn't make me welcome the end, it makes me sad, just as sad about people hating God so much they deserve it as about the end itself. There is and always has been a solution. What's sad is that so many refuse it, mock and scorn it. There is nothing happy about any of this.
Yeah, the divine plan sucks.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 203 by Faith, posted 08-29-2015 1:26 PM Faith has not replied

  
Dr Adequate
Member (Idle past 285 days)
Posts: 16113
Joined: 07-20-2006


Message 211 of 424 (767464)
08-29-2015 2:17 PM
Reply to: Message 201 by Faith
08-29-2015 1:21 PM


Re: Clerk refuses to issue marriage license to gays
There is no problem with heathen marriages. They are as valid as any other marriage. The requirement is one man, one woman, period.
Yeah, fuck the First Commandment. That's not important to Christianity. What's important is hating gays (because Jesus said to love thy neighbor) cutting taxes for billionaires (because the love of money is the root of all evil) and making sure everyone has plenty of guns (they're useful for turning the other cheek).

This message is a reply to:
 Message 201 by Faith, posted 08-29-2015 1:21 PM Faith has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 212 by Faith, posted 08-29-2015 2:47 PM Dr Adequate has replied

  
Dr Adequate
Member (Idle past 285 days)
Posts: 16113
Joined: 07-20-2006


Message 213 of 424 (767467)
08-29-2015 3:17 PM
Reply to: Message 212 by Faith
08-29-2015 2:47 PM


Re: HRe: Clerk refuses to issue marriage license to gays
How pathetic you are. And so many others here.
What a well-thought out riposte. So witty, and yet so profound.
C'mon, Faith, explain it to us. A gay wedding involves two people of the same sex getting married, which you object to on religious grounds. A Hindu wedding involves reading from false 'scriptures', bowing before idols, worshiping false gods and goddesses and making burnt offerings unto them, which, surely, you also object to on religious grounds. The two ceremonies would seem so far to be on the same footing.
And yet you hasten to tell us that "there is no problem with heathen marriages", and that a marriage conducted in the name of the Supreme Lord Shiva and the Seven Mother Goddesses is "as valid as any other marriage" (you think God would agree with you there?) I don't see how you manage to believe that. You seem to be drawing an awfully fine distinction ... either that, of course, or your reasoning is no more than "It just is. Because I say so."

This message is a reply to:
 Message 212 by Faith, posted 08-29-2015 2:47 PM Faith has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 214 by Faith, posted 08-29-2015 3:33 PM Dr Adequate has replied

  
Dr Adequate
Member (Idle past 285 days)
Posts: 16113
Joined: 07-20-2006


Message 215 of 424 (767477)
08-29-2015 3:49 PM
Reply to: Message 214 by Faith
08-29-2015 3:33 PM


Re: HRe: Clerk refuses to issue marriage license to gays
Homosexuality IS included in the commandment against adultery. I've heard it preached that way.
I could preach a sermon saying that bananas are included among the fish, it wouldn't make it so.
Yes, God is the one who ordained marriage between a man and a woman and it doesn't matter to Him who performs the ceremony.
He has no objection to idol-worship and the adoration of false gods? Boy, Moses really misquoted him, didn't he?
We leave people's sins alone except for preaching against them. We may preach against Hindu idolatry as well as against homosexuality or gay marriage, but it's their business and not ours as long as we are not required to participate in it.
And yet apparently you think there is a difference between being "required to participate" in a Hindu wedding with its idolatry and its worship of false gods, and being "required to participate" in a gay wedding with its gayness.
There is really something wrong with your mind.
I knew there must be some reason why your arguments are so silly. My mind. Of course.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 214 by Faith, posted 08-29-2015 3:33 PM Faith has not replied

  
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