Understanding through Discussion


Welcome! You are not logged in. [ Login ]
EvC Forum active members: 114 (8789 total)
Current session began: 
Page Loaded: 09-22-2017 4:19 AM
332 online now:
Minnemooseus (Adminnemooseus), PaulK (2 members, 330 visitors)
Chatting now:  Chat room empty
Newest Member: Porkncheese
Post Volume:
Total: 819,266 Year: 23,872/21,208 Month: 1,837/2,468 Week: 346/822 Day: 6/66 Hour: 0/1

Announcements: Reporting debate problems OR discussing moderation actions/inactions


Thread  Details

Email This Thread
Newer Topic | Older Topic
  
RewPrev1
...
2324
25
26272829Next
Author Topic:   Religions are fairy tales for adults. Should we encourage them to grow up?
Tangle
Member
Posts: 5057
From: UK
Joined: 10-07-2011
Member Rating: 3.2


(1)
Message 361 of 424 (767981)
09-04-2015 2:28 AM
Reply to: Message 360 by Faith
09-04-2015 1:54 AM


Faith writes:

My point is very simple: if ANY human law, doesn't matter what its source, contradicts God, a Christian must disobey that law.

...and if you must hold those primitive beliefs, and you find yourself compromised and unable to do the job you're paid to do, then you do the honourable thing and resign your publicly funded post.

But we all know that actively seeking out and hoping for martyrdom is the dream of the delusional fundamentalist.


Je suis Charlie. Je suis Ahmed. Je suis Juif.

Life, don't talk to me about life - Marvin the Paranoid Android

"Science adjusts it's views based on what's observed.
Faith is the denial of observation so that Belief can be preserved."
- Tim Minchin, in his beat poem, Storm.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 360 by Faith, posted 09-04-2015 1:54 AM Faith has not yet responded

  
saab93f
Member (Idle past 242 days)
Posts: 265
From: Finland
Joined: 12-17-2009


(2)
Message 362 of 424 (767985)
09-04-2015 4:19 AM
Reply to: Message 360 by Faith
09-04-2015 1:54 AM


My point is very simple: if ANY human law, doesn't matter what its source, contradicts God, a Christian must disobey that law.

Why does a devout believer almost without exemption also have to be a d1ck? No matter how much hurt they caused with their actions, it is more important to...just continue hurting.

Normal people refrain from hurting others and rejoice on othershappiness.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 360 by Faith, posted 09-04-2015 1:54 AM Faith has not yet responded

  
Omnivorous
Member (Idle past 498 days)
Posts: 3808
From: Adirondackia
Joined: 07-21-2005


(2)
Message 363 of 424 (767988)
09-04-2015 7:38 AM
Reply to: Message 360 by Faith
09-04-2015 1:54 AM


Faith writes:

I really don't know what point you are trying to make. My point is very simple: if ANY human law, doesn't matter what its source, contradicts God, a Christian must disobey that law. Period.

That's why jailed Christians have always packed our prisons and jails, nobly, humbly, secretly resisting unjust man-made law.

There's no lie involved.

I guess Ms. Davis had a cross in her pocket when she swore her oath and when she later told the judge she had never imagined herself in this position. Not only had she imagined it, she'd already decided what to do.

They're other folks around the world who claim their understanding of God trumps human law.

For the most part, their hands are bloody, and their consciences are clean.


"If you can keep your head while those around you are losing theirs, you can collect a lot of heads."

This message is a reply to:
 Message 360 by Faith, posted 09-04-2015 1:54 AM Faith has not yet responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 365 by dwise1, posted 09-04-2015 10:40 AM Omnivorous has acknowledged this reply

    
JonF
Member
Posts: 3961
Joined: 06-23-2003
Member Rating: 3.1


(3)
Message 364 of 424 (767989)
09-04-2015 7:39 AM
Reply to: Message 360 by Faith
09-04-2015 1:54 AM



I really don't know what point you are trying to make. My point is very simple: if ANY human law, doesn't matter what its source, contradicts God, a Christian must disobey that law. Period.

Fine, but she also must live with the consequences of her choice.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 360 by Faith, posted 09-04-2015 1:54 AM Faith has not yet responded

  
dwise1
Member
Posts: 2956
Joined: 05-02-2006
Member Rating: 4.2


(1)
Message 365 of 424 (767998)
09-04-2015 10:40 AM
Reply to: Message 363 by Omnivorous
09-04-2015 7:38 AM


Even in the earliest examples of Christian martyrdom, they go out of their way to create the situation. Even now with their whining about "how much they are being persecuted", they go out of their way to be so hateful so that they can then whine about how much everybody hates them. Duh?
This message is a reply to:
 Message 363 by Omnivorous, posted 09-04-2015 7:38 AM Omnivorous has acknowledged this reply

Replies to this message:
 Message 377 by Dr Adequate, posted 09-09-2015 10:50 AM dwise1 has responded

    
AZPaul3
Member
Posts: 3428
From: Phoenix
Joined: 11-06-2006


(1)
Message 366 of 424 (767999)
09-04-2015 11:05 AM


The New American Games
When do we get to see the lions in action? Can we get NBC to carry them live? Can we get Michaels and Collinsworth to do the bite-by-bite?
  
Dr Adequate
Member
Posts: 15950
Joined: 07-20-2006
Member Rating: 4.6


(2)
Message 367 of 424 (768000)
09-04-2015 11:18 AM
Reply to: Message 360 by Faith
09-04-2015 1:54 AM


I really don't know what point you are trying to make. My point is very simple: if ANY human law, doesn't matter what its source, contradicts God, a Christian must disobey that law.

Well ... a Quaker doesn't have to join the army and then refuse to fight, so as to actively disobey human law in favor of what he considers God's law. He can just not join the army. If instead he joins the army and demands that he get the pay and the housing allowance and the uniform and the pension but shouldn't be expected to fight ... well, what would you think of that? Does that make him a brave martyr sticking up for his principles or just an asshole?


This message is a reply to:
 Message 360 by Faith, posted 09-04-2015 1:54 AM Faith has not yet responded

  
ringo
Member
Posts: 13636
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005
Member Rating: 2.3


(1)
Message 368 of 424 (768008)
09-04-2015 12:23 PM
Reply to: Message 360 by Faith
09-04-2015 1:54 AM


Faith writes:

My point is very simple: if ANY human law, doesn't matter what its source, contradicts God, a Christian must disobey that law.


If your job requires you to break God's law, you quit your job. You don't just refuse to do your job.
This message is a reply to:
 Message 360 by Faith, posted 09-04-2015 1:54 AM Faith has not yet responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 369 by dwise1, posted 09-04-2015 3:03 PM ringo has acknowledged this reply

  
dwise1
Member
Posts: 2956
Joined: 05-02-2006
Member Rating: 4.2


(1)
Message 369 of 424 (768012)
09-04-2015 3:03 PM
Reply to: Message 368 by ringo
09-04-2015 12:23 PM


For that matter, since she's an elected government official, shouldn't she have had to have been sworn into office? Shouldn't her oath of office have included wording to the effect that she would faithfully execute her duties to the best of her ability? And shouldn't she have ended that oath of office with the words, "so help me God."?

So then by willfully shirking her duties, she is breaking an oath she had made to God.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 368 by ringo, posted 09-04-2015 12:23 PM ringo has acknowledged this reply

    
NoNukes
Member
Posts: 9920
From: Central NC USA
Joined: 08-13-2010
Member Rating: 3.3


Message 370 of 424 (768013)
09-04-2015 3:09 PM


Kim Davis refuses to allow her assistants to issue licenses because they have to do so in her name. Presumably now that she is in jail, her assistants will be able to issue licenses. And guess whose name is going to be on them despite her wishes to the contrary?

Under a government which imprisons any unjustly, the true place for a just man is also in prison. Thoreau: Civil Disobedience (1846)

History will have to record that the greatest tragedy of this period of social transition was not the strident clamor of the bad people, but the appalling silence of the good people. Martin Luther King

If there are no stupid questions, then what kind of questions do stupid people ask? Do they get smart just in time to ask questions? Scott Adams


Replies to this message:
 Message 371 by dwise1, posted 09-04-2015 3:40 PM NoNukes has not yet responded
 Message 372 by Omnivorous, posted 09-04-2015 3:41 PM NoNukes has not yet responded
 Message 373 by Tanypteryx, posted 09-04-2015 3:42 PM NoNukes has not yet responded

    
dwise1
Member
Posts: 2956
Joined: 05-02-2006
Member Rating: 4.2


Message 371 of 424 (768015)
09-04-2015 3:40 PM
Reply to: Message 370 by NoNukes
09-04-2015 3:09 PM


According to a news report I read on my phone (so, sorry, no link), the clerks are issuing marriage licenses, but they're not signed since their boss isn't there to sign them. The clerks insisted that the licenses are still valid even without her signature, a position also held by the county attorney and the gay couples' lawyer. However, she and her lawyer say that those licenses are void and "not worth paper that they are written on".

With her fervor for keeping government from working, are you sure she's not a closet Republican?

In other news, did you hear the one about the Tennessee judge, Jeffrey M. Atherton, who refused to grant a divorce for a straight couple because of gay marriage?

Edited by dwise1, : Tenn. judge


This message is a reply to:
 Message 370 by NoNukes, posted 09-04-2015 3:09 PM NoNukes has not yet responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 374 by Omnivorous, posted 09-04-2015 3:49 PM dwise1 has not yet responded
 Message 375 by jar, posted 09-05-2015 10:45 AM dwise1 has not yet responded

    
Omnivorous
Member (Idle past 498 days)
Posts: 3808
From: Adirondackia
Joined: 07-21-2005


Message 372 of 424 (768016)
09-04-2015 3:41 PM
Reply to: Message 370 by NoNukes
09-04-2015 3:09 PM


Delicious.

I understand that as an elected official, she can only be removed by impeachment in the legislature.

Still, there must be some provision for the clerk's duties when one is incapacitated or otherwise unable to perform her duties. I suspect an automatic delegation to assistant clerks is that process, and she implicitly consented when she swore her oath.

Ms. Davis, via her attorneys, refuses to "authorize" her assistants to stamp her name and suggests couples would be risking an invalid, 'unauthorized' license.

What a ferret-like martyr! I'd almost marry somebody to get a limited edition license. I savor each one they stamp.

When she's out, will she try physically to stop her assistants? It could be epic.


"If you can keep your head while those around you are losing theirs, you can collect a lot of heads."

This message is a reply to:
 Message 370 by NoNukes, posted 09-04-2015 3:09 PM NoNukes has not yet responded

    
Tanypteryx
Member
Posts: 1578
From: Oregon, USA
Joined: 08-27-2006
Member Rating: 6.1


Message 373 of 424 (768017)
09-04-2015 3:42 PM
Reply to: Message 370 by NoNukes
09-04-2015 3:09 PM


Presumably now that she is in jail, her assistants will be able to issue licenses. And guess whose name is going to be on them despite her wishes to the contrary?

God is going to really pissed off about that. She's going to burn in hell....Satan will probably make her have a gay wedding.


What if Eleanor Roosevelt had wings? -- Monty Python

One important characteristic of a theory is that is has survived repeated attempts to falsify it. Contrary to your understanding, all available evidence confirms it. --Subbie

If evolution is shown to be false, it will be at the hands of things that are true, not made up. --percy


This message is a reply to:
 Message 370 by NoNukes, posted 09-04-2015 3:09 PM NoNukes has not yet responded

    
Omnivorous
Member (Idle past 498 days)
Posts: 3808
From: Adirondackia
Joined: 07-21-2005


Message 374 of 424 (768018)
09-04-2015 3:49 PM
Reply to: Message 371 by dwise1
09-04-2015 3:40 PM


Unsigned? That's unusual--most county offices run on rubber stamps.

If I was the judge, I'd let her sit till she signed. He has said both that couples would just have to take their chances with those licenses and that she could be released if the assistants issued them

That doesn't sound acceptable to me.


"If you can keep your head while those around you are losing theirs, you can collect a lot of heads."

This message is a reply to:
 Message 371 by dwise1, posted 09-04-2015 3:40 PM dwise1 has not yet responded

    
jar
Member
Posts: 29363
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004
Member Rating: 3.2


(1)
Message 375 of 424 (768046)
09-05-2015 10:45 AM
Reply to: Message 371 by dwise1
09-04-2015 3:40 PM


This is the US.
Fortunately, this is still the United States and her opinion is about as empty and worthless as the pitiful evil God she tries to market.

Anyone so limited that they can only spell a word one way is severely handicapped!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 371 by dwise1, posted 09-04-2015 3:40 PM dwise1 has not yet responded

  
RewPrev1
...
2324
25
26272829Next
Newer Topic | Older Topic
Jump to:


Copyright 2001-2015 by EvC Forum, All Rights Reserved

™ Version 4.0 Beta
Innovative software from Qwixotic © 2017