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Author Topic:   Evolution. We Have The Fossils. We Win.
Dredge
Member
Posts: 703
From: Australia
Joined: 09-06-2016
Member Rating: 1.2


Message 601 of 639 (826136)
12-22-2017 10:35 PM
Reply to: Message 597 by Stile
12-19-2017 10:29 AM


Re: what a pathetic God/World/Univers Dredge markets
If you have won the argument that all life on earth evolved from microbes, then you have won nothing - it is completely useless information.
This message is a reply to:
 Message 597 by Stile, posted 12-19-2017 10:29 AM Stile has acknowledged this reply

Replies to this message:
 Message 602 by Dr Adequate, posted 12-22-2017 11:45 PM Dredge has not yet responded
 Message 603 by ringo, posted 12-23-2017 10:58 AM Dredge has responded
 Message 622 by NoNukes, posted 12-26-2017 2:14 PM Dredge has not yet responded
 Message 623 by RAZD, posted 12-26-2017 4:13 PM Dredge has not yet responded

    
Dr Adequate
Member
Posts: 15997
Joined: 07-20-2006
Member Rating: 3.5


(2)
Message 602 of 639 (826138)
12-22-2017 11:45 PM
Reply to: Message 601 by Dredge
12-22-2017 10:35 PM


Re: what a pathetic God/World/Univers Dredge markets
Tastes differ.
This message is a reply to:
 Message 601 by Dredge, posted 12-22-2017 10:35 PM Dredge has not yet responded

  
ringo
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Posts: 14117
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005
Member Rating: 1.7


(3)
Message 603 of 639 (826156)
12-23-2017 10:58 AM
Reply to: Message 601 by Dredge
12-22-2017 10:35 PM


Re: what a pathetic God/World/Univers Dredge markets
Dredge writes:

If you have won the argument that all life on earth evolved from microbes, then you have won nothing - it is completely useless information.


Granted, information is useless to microbes and creationists - but for the rest of us it's still nice to have.
This message is a reply to:
 Message 601 by Dredge, posted 12-22-2017 10:35 PM Dredge has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 606 by Dredge, posted 12-23-2017 11:29 PM ringo has responded

  
ICANT
Member
Posts: 5686
From: SSC
Joined: 03-12-2007
Member Rating: 1.4


Message 604 of 639 (826169)
12-23-2017 3:11 PM
Reply to: Message 83 by edge
09-12-2015 12:16 PM


Hi Edge,

Sorry I had overlook this post and then got so busy with more important things that I did not get back to it until now.

Edge writes:

Are you telling me that 'began to exist' is the same as 'intelligently created?

Began to exist, means exactly what it says.
Began to exist has nothing to say about how something began to exist.
Began to exist is the opposite of did not exist.

According to the BBT the universe existed at T=0 +a billionth of a second.

The scientific answer for what existed at T=0 is, "We don't know". The reason we don't know is that the mathamatics break down and can tell us nothing about whether some thing, or no thing existed at T=0

Since the universe did exist at T=0+one billionth of a second some thing had to exist at T=0 to produce what existed at T=0+one billionth of a second.

OR

#1. The universe began to exist from the absence of anything. (no thing)
#2. The universe began to exist from forces outside the universe.

I have been told here on many occasions that there is no thing that exist outside of the universe as it is self contained.

Edge writes:

Are you telling me that your little semantic games are an argument for YECism?

Why would I argue for YECism when I am older universe than you or anyone else that post on this site.

Edge writes:

Are you telling me that the beginning of life is definitive argument in the evolution/creationism discussion?

I am telling you that if there is no life there is nothing to evolve or was created. Thus there would be no discussion as we would not exist. It does not matter how that life began to exist, but since it does that gives us something to discuss.

Edge writes:

Of course not. Are you saying that make me a creationist in the sense that we discuss in this forum?

OK so you don't believe the universe has existed eternally in the past.

Since it has not always existed then you must believe it had a beginning to exist as it does exist today.

The Hebrew word we translate as created means something that has not existed begins to exist.

So regardless of what theory you believe concerning how the universe began to exist since you don't believe it has always existed you are a creationist.

But no when you discuss creationist you only want to talk about YECism not creatonism

God Bless,


"John 5:39 (KJS) Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me."

This message is a reply to:
 Message 83 by edge, posted 09-12-2015 12:16 PM edge has not yet responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 605 by Dr Adequate, posted 12-23-2017 4:54 PM ICANT has responded
 Message 615 by Astrophile, posted 12-25-2017 2:28 PM ICANT has not yet responded

    
Dr Adequate
Member
Posts: 15997
Joined: 07-20-2006
Member Rating: 3.5


Message 605 of 639 (826176)
12-23-2017 4:54 PM
Reply to: Message 604 by ICANT
12-23-2017 3:11 PM


Someone tell ICANT what "creationist" means.
This message is a reply to:
 Message 604 by ICANT, posted 12-23-2017 3:11 PM ICANT has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 613 by ICANT, posted 12-24-2017 4:46 PM Dr Adequate has responded

  
Dredge
Member
Posts: 703
From: Australia
Joined: 09-06-2016
Member Rating: 1.2


Message 606 of 639 (826178)
12-23-2017 11:29 PM
Reply to: Message 603 by ringo
12-23-2017 10:58 AM


Re: what a pathetic God/World/Univers Dredge markets
The conclusion/hypothesis that all life evolved from microbes is "nice to know" for atheists, but to science , it's "useless to know". So for all intents and purposes, it's a philosophical/psychological argument, not a scientific one.
This message is a reply to:
 Message 603 by ringo, posted 12-23-2017 10:58 AM ringo has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 609 by Tangle, posted 12-24-2017 3:38 AM Dredge has not yet responded
 Message 610 by Coyote, posted 12-24-2017 11:58 AM Dredge has responded
 Message 612 by Tanypteryx, posted 12-24-2017 12:23 PM Dredge has not yet responded
 Message 629 by ringo, posted 12-27-2017 2:41 PM Dredge has not yet responded

    
Dredge
Member
Posts: 703
From: Australia
Joined: 09-06-2016
Member Rating: 1.2


Message 607 of 639 (826179)
12-23-2017 11:35 PM


The evolutionists who says, "We have the fossils - we win" is the like the believer in aliens who says, "We have the crop circles - we win."
Replies to this message:
 Message 611 by Dr Adequate, posted 12-24-2017 12:00 PM Dredge has not yet responded

    
LamarkNewAge
Member
Posts: 1073
Joined: 12-22-2015
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 608 of 639 (826180)
12-24-2017 12:26 AM
Reply to: Message 600 by Dredge
12-22-2017 10:32 PM


Re: Christians should be able to allow for God using agencies. Like Evolution to make man
quote:

Your questions are too deep for my shallow, fragile, egg-shell mind. Please do not ask them again.

I never said you have a shallow, fragile, egg-shell mind.

Were you saying I did?

(How many times can I ask this one?)


This message is a reply to:
 Message 600 by Dredge, posted 12-22-2017 10:32 PM Dredge has responded

Replies to this message:
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Tangle
Member
Posts: 5328
From: UK
Joined: 10-07-2011
Member Rating: 1.6


(1)
Message 609 of 639 (826183)
12-24-2017 3:38 AM
Reply to: Message 606 by Dredge
12-23-2017 11:29 PM


Re: what a pathetic God/World/Univers Dredge markets
Yes, dear. Now go tidy your bedroom.

Je suis Charlie. Je suis Ahmed. Je suis Juif. Je suis Parisien. I am Mancunian. I am Brum. I am London.I am Finland. Soy Barcelona

"Life, don't talk to me about life" - Marvin the Paranoid Android

"Science adjusts it's views based on what's observed.
Faith is the denial of observation so that Belief can be preserved."
- Tim Minchin, in his beat poem, Storm.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 606 by Dredge, posted 12-23-2017 11:29 PM Dredge has not yet responded

  
Coyote
Member
Posts: 6052
Joined: 01-12-2008
Member Rating: 1.8


Message 610 of 639 (826188)
12-24-2017 11:58 AM
Reply to: Message 606 by Dredge
12-23-2017 11:29 PM


Re: what a pathetic God/World/Univers Dredge markets
The conclusion/hypothesis that all life evolved from microbes is "nice to know" for atheists, but to science , it's "useless to know". So for all intents and purposes, it's a philosophical/psychological argument, not a scientific one.

So, what you're saying is that scientific knowledge which explains things about the natural world is "useless" if it contradicts someone's religious beliefs?


Religious belief does not constitute scientific evidence, nor does it convey scientific knowledge.

Belief gets in the way of learning--Robert A. Heinlein

In the name of diversity, college student demands to be kept in ignorance of the culture that made diversity a value--StultisTheFool

It's not what we don't know that hurts, it's what we know that ain't so--Will Rogers

If I am entitled to something, someone else is obliged to pay--Jerry Pournelle

If a religion's teachings are true, then it should have nothing to fear from science...--dwise1

"Multiculturalism" demands that the US be tolerant of everything except its own past, culture, traditions, and identity.

Liberals claim to want to give a hearing to other views, but then are shocked and offended to discover that there are other points of view--William F. Buckley Jr.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 606 by Dredge, posted 12-23-2017 11:29 PM Dredge has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 616 by RAZD, posted 12-25-2017 7:53 PM Coyote has not yet responded
 Message 618 by Dredge, posted 12-26-2017 12:05 AM Coyote has responded

  
Dr Adequate
Member
Posts: 15997
Joined: 07-20-2006
Member Rating: 3.5


Message 611 of 639 (826189)
12-24-2017 12:00 PM
Reply to: Message 607 by Dredge
12-23-2017 11:35 PM


The evolutionists who says, "We have the fossils - we win" is the like the believer in aliens who says, "We have the crop circles - we win."

No.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 607 by Dredge, posted 12-23-2017 11:35 PM Dredge has not yet responded

  
Tanypteryx
Member
Posts: 1605
From: Oregon, USA
Joined: 08-27-2006
Member Rating: 3.8


Message 612 of 639 (826190)
12-24-2017 12:23 PM
Reply to: Message 606 by Dredge
12-23-2017 11:29 PM


Re: what a pathetic God/World/Univers Dredge markets
The conclusion/hypothesis that all life evolved from microbes is "nice to know" for atheists, but to science , it's "useless to know".

Pretty funny. I bet you have convinced lots of scientists.

You must be really pissed that now that you know all life evolved from microbes, you don't have any room left for any of that useful bible crap.

I can see the headlines now......"Australian Man's Head Explodes When He Tries To Cram One More Useless Fact Into His Pointless Mind!"

I know you never get tired of hearing it: Evolution, We Have The Fossils, We Win.


What if Eleanor Roosevelt had wings? -- Monty Python

One important characteristic of a theory is that is has survived repeated attempts to falsify it. Contrary to your understanding, all available evidence confirms it. --Subbie

If evolution is shown to be false, it will be at the hands of things that are true, not made up. --percy

The reason that we have the scientific method is because common sense isn't reliable. -- Taq


This message is a reply to:
 Message 606 by Dredge, posted 12-23-2017 11:29 PM Dredge has not yet responded

    
ICANT
Member
Posts: 5686
From: SSC
Joined: 03-12-2007
Member Rating: 1.4


Message 613 of 639 (826193)
12-24-2017 4:46 PM
Reply to: Message 605 by Dr Adequate
12-23-2017 4:54 PM


Hi Dr.

Dr writes:

Someone tell ICANT what "creationist" means.

Better yet why don't you explain to ICANT how the universe began to exist if you do not believe it has existed eternally in the past.

God Bless,


"John 5:39 (KJS) Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me."

This message is a reply to:
 Message 605 by Dr Adequate, posted 12-23-2017 4:54 PM Dr Adequate has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 614 by Dr Adequate, posted 12-25-2017 3:03 AM ICANT has not yet responded

    
Dr Adequate
Member
Posts: 15997
Joined: 07-20-2006
Member Rating: 3.5


(2)
Message 614 of 639 (826194)
12-25-2017 3:03 AM
Reply to: Message 613 by ICANT
12-24-2017 4:46 PM


That doesn't look like a discussion of how we have the fossils and win.

If you want to be wrong about this stuff again, start a new thread or bump and old one.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 613 by ICANT, posted 12-24-2017 4:46 PM ICANT has not yet responded

  
Astrophile
Member
Posts: 69
From: United Kingdom
Joined: 02-10-2014


(1)
Message 615 of 639 (826207)
12-25-2017 2:28 PM
Reply to: Message 604 by ICANT
12-23-2017 3:11 PM


ICANT writes:

OK so you don't believe the universe has existed eternally in the past.

So far as I understand it, I think that the universe has existed for the whole of time, but not that it is infinitely old.

ICANT writes:

Since it has not always existed then you must believe it had a beginning to exist as it does exist today.

Since the Earth's surface is not infinite, it must have an edge, and missing people, such as Lord Lucan, have fallen over it.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 604 by ICANT, posted 12-23-2017 3:11 PM ICANT has not yet responded

    
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