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Author Topic:   Catholics are making it up.
Phat
Member
Posts: 9881
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.4


Message 301 of 305 (821038)
10-01-2017 3:44 PM
Reply to: Message 300 by Capt Stormfield
10-01-2017 3:14 PM


Re: Evidence versus Subjective experience
Yes, I cannot deny that. Belief is partially a cultural meme, but it also stems in some cases from individual experience. The Sasquatch hunter must surely be aware that he has not caught any yet. Why he would want to keep hunting for something never seen is puzzling. Perhaps he has a Sasquatch Hunters support group.

Chance as a real force is a myth. It has no basis in reality and no place in scientific inquiry. For science and philosophy to continue to advance in knowledge, chance must be demythologized once and for all. RC Sproul
"A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." Mark Twain "
~"If that's not sufficient for you go soak your head."~Faith
An atheist is someone who has no invisible means of support~Bishop Fulton J.Sheen

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 Message 300 by Capt Stormfield, posted 10-01-2017 3:14 PM Capt Stormfield has not yet responded

  
Tangle
Member
Posts: 5097
From: UK
Joined: 10-07-2011
Member Rating: 2.2


Message 302 of 305 (821148)
10-03-2017 9:58 AM
Reply to: Message 293 by Dredge
09-29-2017 2:09 AM


Dredge writes:

But if you refuse point blank to believe in miracles, no amount of evidence will ever be enough.

What's belief got to do with it? Miracles are supernatural interventions in our natural world. If they existed we'd have so much evidence for them that belief would not be a factor.

I don't believe in dousing because it doesn't work. I don't believe in miracles because there aren't any. Show me a miracle and I'll accept it as fact, show me a douser that can detect water in controlled conditions and I'll accept it.


Je suis Charlie. Je suis Ahmed. Je suis Juif. Je suis Parisien. I am Mancunian. I am Brum. I am London.I am Finland. Soy Barcelona

"Life, don't talk to me about life" - Marvin the Paranoid Android

"Science adjusts it's views based on what's observed.
Faith is the denial of observation so that Belief can be preserved."
- Tim Minchin, in his beat poem, Storm.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 293 by Dredge, posted 09-29-2017 2:09 AM Dredge has not yet responded

  
Tangle
Member
Posts: 5097
From: UK
Joined: 10-07-2011
Member Rating: 2.2


Message 303 of 305 (821149)
10-03-2017 10:06 AM
Reply to: Message 294 by Dredge
09-29-2017 2:27 AM


Dredge writes:

If a woman (or an accomplice) confesses an abortion, an ordinary priest is not allowed to grant absolution, but has to ask the local bishop for permission as a means of emphasizing the evil of such sins.

Remember that the title of this thread is 'Catholics are making it up?' Well thanks for a new example.

As far as I know, it is a grave sin for any Catholic anywhere to use contraception.

And here's another one. It was deemed not to be a sin if your conscience allows it in the early 60s or so. A really nice cop out which slowed down the massive haemorrhage of good Christian parents leaving the Catholic faith for a more user-friendly one.

So, of course, virtually every Catholic in modern Western democracies practices contraception and priests don't bother anybody anymore. When was the last time you saw a family of ten kids?


Je suis Charlie. Je suis Ahmed. Je suis Juif. Je suis Parisien. I am Mancunian. I am Brum. I am London.I am Finland. Soy Barcelona

"Life, don't talk to me about life" - Marvin the Paranoid Android

"Science adjusts it's views based on what's observed.
Faith is the denial of observation so that Belief can be preserved."
- Tim Minchin, in his beat poem, Storm.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 294 by Dredge, posted 09-29-2017 2:27 AM Dredge has not yet responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 305 by 1.61803, posted 10-11-2017 10:43 AM Tangle has not yet responded

  
Tangle
Member
Posts: 5097
From: UK
Joined: 10-07-2011
Member Rating: 2.2


Message 304 of 305 (821462)
10-08-2017 8:01 AM


By complete chance, today I went to Santiago de Compostela in Northern Spain as a tourist. It's a UNESCO world heritage site and also the third most important site of pilgrimage for the Catholic church being the alleged resting place for St James the disciple's body after he was decapitated. You can look at the casket he's apparently in in the crypt - after paying of course.

Well, talk about making stuff up. The entire site is one long series of myths and legends woven into centuries of money making religious ventures, gouging pilgrims from all over the world for privileges and indulgences. Pilgrimages mean money for a town but to get to be a place of pilgrimage you need religious stories. The story of the miraculous finding of the body of St James involves deceit, continental travel, miraculous starlight and guidance by wild animals. The town became wealthy - there are 80 Catholic churches within the one square kilometre.

If you can get yourself buried in the Cathedral you automatically go to heaven. If you make a pilgrimage to the Cathedral when St Jame's birthday - or was it his deathday? - falls on a Sunday you automatically get to heaven. (But you have to have walked over 100km, for this to work.)

The symbol of Santiago is the scollop shell but to get one you could only buy it from the church - they had a nationwide monopoly. The fantasies just go on and on .... and people still believe them.

Some nice buildings though.

According to a tradition that can be traced back at least to the 12th century, when it was recorded in the Codex Calixtinus, Saint James decided to return to the Holy Land after preaching in Galicia. There he was beheaded, but his disciples managed to get his body to Jaffa, where they found a marvelous stone ship which miraculously conducted them and the apostle's body to Iria Flavia, back in Galicia. There, the disciples asked the local pagan queen Loba ('She-wolf') for permission to bury the body; she, annoyed, decided to deceive them, sending them to pick a pair of oxen she allegedly had by the Pico Sacro, a local sacred mountain where a dragon dwelt, hoping that the dragon would kill the Christians, but as soon as the beast attacked the disciples, at the sight of the cross, the dragon exploded. Then the disciples marched to collect the oxen, which were actually wild bulls which the queen used to punish her enemies; but again, at the sight of the Christian's cross, the bulls calmed down, and after being subjected to a yoke they carried the apostle's body to the place where now Compostela is. The legend was again referred with minor changes by the Czech traveller Jaroslav Lev of Romitl, in the 15th century.[18]

The relics were said to have been later rediscovered in the 9th century by a hermit named Pelagius, who after observing strange lights in a local forest went for help after the local bishop, Theodemar of Iria, in the west of Galicia. The legend affirms that Theodemar was then guided to the spot by a star, drawing upon a familiar myth-element, hence "Compostela" was given an etymology as a corruption of Campus Stellae, "Field of Stars."

In the 15th century, the red banner which guided the Galician armies to battle, was still preserved in the Cathedral of Santiago de Compostela, in the centre Saint James riding a white horse and wearing a white cloak, sword in hand:[19] The legend of the miraculous armed intervention of Saint James, disguised as a white knight to help the Christians when battling the Muslims, was a recurrent myth during the High Middle Ages.


Je suis Charlie. Je suis Ahmed. Je suis Juif. Je suis Parisien. I am Mancunian. I am Brum. I am London.I am Finland. Soy Barcelona

"Life, don't talk to me about life" - Marvin the Paranoid Android

"Science adjusts it's views based on what's observed.
Faith is the denial of observation so that Belief can be preserved."
- Tim Minchin, in his beat poem, Storm.


  
1.61803
Member
Posts: 2718
From: Lone Star State USA
Joined: 02-19-2004
Member Rating: 3.1


(1)
Message 305 of 305 (821706)
10-11-2017 10:43 AM
Reply to: Message 303 by Tangle
10-03-2017 10:06 AM


Tangle writes:

When was the last time you saw a family of ten kids?

"Ever-REEEeeeY sper-Rummm is Sacred!! Ever-reeey Sper-rumm is
great!"

If
A Sper-Ruumm is waisted
God gets quite irate!!"

Edited by 1.61803, : cuz


"You were not there for the beginning. You will not be there for the end. Your knowledge of what is going on can only be superficial and relative" William S. Burroughs

This message is a reply to:
 Message 303 by Tangle, posted 10-03-2017 10:06 AM Tangle has not yet responded

  
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