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Author Topic:   Is it moral for God to punish us?
Greatest I am
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Posts: 1384
Joined: 01-24-2007


(1)
Message 121 of 145 (772225)
11-10-2015 9:51 AM
Reply to: Message 119 by Phat
11-10-2015 2:19 AM


Re: More Gnock Gnock Jokes
Phat

And how can we think his way when Christian theology begins with the notion that God is unfathomable, unknowable and works in mysterious ways.

Tell us all what you know of the unknowable and fathom of the unfathomable.

Regards
DL


This message is a reply to:
 Message 119 by Phat, posted 11-10-2015 2:19 AM Phat has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 122 by Phat, posted 11-11-2015 1:01 AM Greatest I am has responded

    
Phat
Member
Posts: 9565
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.9


Message 122 of 145 (772249)
11-11-2015 1:01 AM
Reply to: Message 121 by Greatest I am
11-10-2015 9:51 AM


Re: More Gnock Gnock Jokes
Having the mind of Christ is a beginning. Only through Christ can GOD be understood...and even then only at the level we can handle.

of course if propaganda has convinced you to not trust the writings....

Has Christ ever said anything that could be questioned? (In other words do His teachings make sense? If not why not?


Chance as a real force is a myth. It has no basis in reality and no place in scientific inquiry. For science and philosophy to continue to advance in knowledge, chance must be demythologized once and for all. RC Sproul
"A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." Mark Twain

This message is a reply to:
 Message 121 by Greatest I am, posted 11-10-2015 9:51 AM Greatest I am has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 123 by Dr Adequate, posted 11-11-2015 1:35 AM Phat has acknowledged this reply
 Message 126 by Greatest I am, posted 11-11-2015 8:33 AM Phat has not yet responded

  
Dr Adequate
Member
Posts: 15948
Joined: 07-20-2006
Member Rating: 4.3


(1)
Message 123 of 145 (772250)
11-11-2015 1:35 AM
Reply to: Message 122 by Phat
11-11-2015 1:01 AM


Re: More Gnock Gnock Jokes
Has Christ ever said anything that could be questioned?

"Truly I tell you, some who are standing here will not taste death before they see the Son of Man coming in his kingdom."


This message is a reply to:
 Message 122 by Phat, posted 11-11-2015 1:01 AM Phat has acknowledged this reply

Replies to this message:
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Faith
Member
Posts: 25817
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 124 of 145 (772252)
11-11-2015 2:36 AM
Reply to: Message 123 by Dr Adequate
11-11-2015 1:35 AM


Re: More Gnock Gnock Jokes
Has Christ ever said anything that could be questioned?

"Truly I tell you, some who are standing here will not taste death before they see the Son of Man coming in his kingdom."

Questioned on what basis?

That spiritual ignorami have no idea what he was talking about?

That the personal experience was not reported by those who witnessed it?

That the hint of it in the transfiguration that occurred soon after isn't sufficient for spiritual ignorami?

Edited by Faith, : No reason given.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 123 by Dr Adequate, posted 11-11-2015 1:35 AM Dr Adequate has not yet responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 125 by Pressie, posted 11-11-2015 8:07 AM Faith has responded
 Message 127 by Greatest I am, posted 11-11-2015 8:42 AM Faith has responded

    
Pressie
Member
Posts: 1714
From: Pretoria, SA
Joined: 06-18-2010
Member Rating: 3.2


Message 125 of 145 (772257)
11-11-2015 8:07 AM
Reply to: Message 124 by Faith
11-11-2015 2:36 AM


Re: More Gnock Gnock Jokes
Faith writes:

Questioned on what basis?

Oh, quite a few basis.

One of them is that all those allegedly hearing what was allegedly said have factually all died in the meantime. Another one is that there's absolutely no empirical, verifiable evidence for the existence of Spooks today.There's many more.

Edited by Pressie, : No reason given.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 124 by Faith, posted 11-11-2015 2:36 AM Faith has responded

Replies to this message:
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Greatest I am
Member
Posts: 1384
Joined: 01-24-2007


Message 126 of 145 (772258)
11-11-2015 8:33 AM
Reply to: Message 122 by Phat
11-11-2015 1:01 AM


Re: More Gnock Gnock Jokes
Phat

Sure some of what the scribes put in Jesus' mouth makes sense. But Jesus is not the same as the Christ.

I am more concerned as to if what Jesus says is moral or not. Morality is what is important in religion. Not sense, although morality usually makes sense.

But overall, Jesus did not preach a good moral theology.

Take his no divorce for women policy. It is anti-love and anti-equality and just as loathsome as some Muslim policies.

Another issue is his turn the other cheek. Would you tell the Jews walking into the ovens to turn the other cheek or love your enemy?

Only an insane person would in such a situation.

The only way I know of to understand God's thinking is to go within yourself and find out how you think. You are the only God you will ever find.

Do not be a lawyer.

Luke 11:52 Woe unto you, lawyers! for ye have taken away the key of knowledge: ye entered not in yourselves, and them that were entering in ye hindered.

Mark 7:13 Making the word of God of none effect through your tradition, which ye have delivered: and many such like things do ye.

Regards
DL


This message is a reply to:
 Message 122 by Phat, posted 11-11-2015 1:01 AM Phat has not yet responded

    
Greatest I am
Member
Posts: 1384
Joined: 01-24-2007


Message 127 of 145 (772259)
11-11-2015 8:42 AM
Reply to: Message 124 by Faith
11-11-2015 2:36 AM


Re: More Gnock Gnock Jokes
Faith

"That spiritual ignorami have no idea what he was talking about?"

Which Jesus are you following?

Luke 19:27 But those enemies of mine who did not want me to be king over thembring them here and kill them in front of me.

Jhn 10:11; I am the good shepherd: the good shepherd giveth his life for the sheep. ... 14 I am the good shepherd, and know my [sheep], and am known of mine.

Which quote is the false one?

Both cannot be true.

Will Jesus kill us or cure us as a shepherd would when we meet him?

Regards
DL


This message is a reply to:
 Message 124 by Faith, posted 11-11-2015 2:36 AM Faith has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 129 by Faith, posted 11-11-2015 9:03 AM Greatest I am has responded

    
Faith
Member
Posts: 25817
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 128 of 145 (772260)
11-11-2015 8:58 AM
Reply to: Message 125 by Pressie
11-11-2015 8:07 AM


Re: More Gnock Gnock Jokes
You assume Jesus was talking about the final coming of the Kingdom but since that didn't happen we know that is not what he was talking about. The statement appears in three of the gospels and those were used by all the churches well past the death of the apostles, which wouldn't have occurred if that statement was understood to refer to the final coming of the Kingdom of God.

It may have referred to the fullness of the realization of the gospel when the Holy Spirit was given, when the apostles themselves possessed the Kingdom of God, or even to Jesus' appearance in His glorified body after the resurrection, or even in a limited sense to the experience of the Transfiguration witnessed six days after Jesus said it, by Peter, James and John.

It makes no sense to read it to mean he was referring to the final coming of the Kingdom.

Edited by Faith, : No reason given.


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Replies to this message:
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Faith
Member
Posts: 25817
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 129 of 145 (772261)
11-11-2015 9:03 AM
Reply to: Message 127 by Greatest I am
11-11-2015 8:42 AM


Re: More Gnock Gnock Jokes
Both are true. He died for his sheep and will at the end do away with his enemies. Sheep, enemies, two different categories.
This message is a reply to:
 Message 127 by Greatest I am, posted 11-11-2015 8:42 AM Greatest I am has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 133 by Greatest I am, posted 11-11-2015 11:50 AM Faith has not yet responded
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Tangle
Member
Posts: 4961
From: UK
Joined: 10-07-2011
Member Rating: 3.1


(2)
Message 130 of 145 (772262)
11-11-2015 9:25 AM
Reply to: Message 128 by Faith
11-11-2015 8:58 AM


Re: More Gnock Gnock Jokes
Faith writes:

It makes no sense to read it to mean he was referring to the final coming of the Kingdom.

Yes it does. It's the straightforward meaning of the words. Not only that, it was what those that heard him say it at the time also thought it meant.

You give away your 'logic' with this:

You assume Jesus was talking about the final coming of the Kingdom but since that didn't happen we know that is not what he was talking about.

The simple fact is that he claimed that the second coming was imminent and it wasn't. The conclusion is that the claim was wrong, not that everybody at the time and ever since misinterpreted what he said. It's not like it's a matter of no importance - a trivial detail. It's the biggest announcement ever made by anybody ever and yet he fucks up the message? "Sorry, I misspoke." Not remotely credible.


Je suis Charlie. Je suis Ahmed. Je suis Juif.

Life, don't talk to me about life - Marvin the Paranoid Android

"Science adjusts it's views based on what's observed.
Faith is the denial of observation so that Belief can be preserved."
- Tim Minchin, in his beat poem, Storm.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 128 by Faith, posted 11-11-2015 8:58 AM Faith has not yet responded

  
Dr Adequate
Member
Posts: 15948
Joined: 07-20-2006
Member Rating: 4.3


(4)
Message 131 of 145 (772263)
11-11-2015 9:32 AM
Reply to: Message 128 by Faith
11-11-2015 8:58 AM


Re: More Gnock Gnock Jokes
You assume Jesus was talking about the final coming of the Kingdom but since that didn't happen we know that is not what he was talking about.

Well, that made me laugh out loud.

I am infallible. I predict that today an elephant will fall on you. If that doesn't happen --- well, I'm infallible, so I must not have meant "an elephant will fall on you" in the sense of "you will be the subject of the unchecked descent of a pachyderm". In that case we know that I must have meant something else, and you may speculate on what.

Of course, if all my statements, no matter how apparently plain and simple, may in fact be obscure cryptic puzzles for the delight of hermeneuticians, then there's hardly any point in my making them. And the same applies to Jesus. If, by "the Son of Man coming in his kingdom" he didn't mean the Son of Man coming in his kingdom, then what reason do we have to think that when he said "love thy neighbor as thyself" he meant that you should love your neighbor as yourself? Maybe he meant that you should buy a bassoon and play it aggressively at squirrels.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 128 by Faith, posted 11-11-2015 8:58 AM Faith has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 132 by Faith, posted 11-11-2015 10:28 AM Dr Adequate has not yet responded

  
Faith
Member
Posts: 25817
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 132 of 145 (772264)
11-11-2015 10:28 AM
Reply to: Message 131 by Dr Adequate
11-11-2015 9:32 AM


Re: More Gnock Gnock Jokes
(deleted)

...decided it's not worth it.

Have a good day.

Edited by Faith, : No reason given.

Edited by Faith, : No reason given.

Edited by Faith, : No reason given.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 131 by Dr Adequate, posted 11-11-2015 9:32 AM Dr Adequate has not yet responded

    
Greatest I am
Member
Posts: 1384
Joined: 01-24-2007


Message 133 of 145 (772271)
11-11-2015 11:50 AM
Reply to: Message 129 by Faith
11-11-2015 9:03 AM


Re: More Gnock Gnock Jokes
Faith

Yet Jesus the shepherd said he came for the ill and not the well and you have him killing the ill instead of curing them.

Yours is not a consistent view.

Is Jesus to kill us or cure us at the end of days?

Will he put most of us on that wide path to hell or will he expand his narrow path the heaven to take all those he cures?

Why do you have your God doing more killing than curing?

Regards
DL


This message is a reply to:
 Message 129 by Faith, posted 11-11-2015 9:03 AM Faith has not yet responded

    
Greatest I am
Member
Posts: 1384
Joined: 01-24-2007


Message 134 of 145 (772272)
11-11-2015 11:53 AM
Reply to: Message 129 by Faith
11-11-2015 9:03 AM


Re: More Gnock Gnock Jokes
Faith

Should a shepherd die for his sheep?

Is a shepherd doing the right thing towards his family if he dies for his sheep and leaved his family fatherless?

Regards
DL


This message is a reply to:
 Message 129 by Faith, posted 11-11-2015 9:03 AM Faith has not yet responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 138 by ringo, posted 11-12-2015 11:26 AM Greatest I am has responded

    
ICANT
Member
Posts: 5625
From: SSC
Joined: 03-12-2007


Message 135 of 145 (772280)
11-11-2015 2:27 PM
Reply to: Message 123 by Dr Adequate
11-11-2015 1:35 AM


Re: More Gnock Gnock Jokes
Hi Dr

Dr writes:

Has Christ ever said anything that could be questioned?

"Truly I tell you, some who are standing here will not taste death before they see the Son of Man coming in his kingdom."

Do you think everyone standing there died before the events of verse 38 which took place the same day?

quote:
19:38 Saying, Blessed be the King that cometh in the name of the Lord: peace in heaven, and glory in the highest.

These people accepted Jesus as their King. A King has to have a kingdom.

God Bless,


"John 5:39 (KJS) Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me."

This message is a reply to:
 Message 123 by Dr Adequate, posted 11-11-2015 1:35 AM Dr Adequate has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 136 by NoNukes, posted 11-11-2015 3:41 PM ICANT has not yet responded
 Message 137 by Dr Adequate, posted 11-11-2015 8:31 PM ICANT has not yet responded

    
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