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Member (Idle past 1427 days) Posts: 20714 From: the other end of the sidewalk Joined: |
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Author | Topic: Interweaving Evolution & Hybrid Vigor | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
herebedragons Member (Idle past 879 days) Posts: 1517 From: Michigan Joined:
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... but was the old population replaced or is it a hybrid population, mixing the best adaptations from the isolated population and the static population? Certainly the derived new population is a mosaic evolution from the static parent population with some new traits and some old traits, Ahhh, I see where you were going with this. I certainly agree that evolution is not a straight-line linear progression, but favors a mosaic, as you say.
For instance here are a pair of different interpretations of pelycodus and copelemur evolution: I don't think I have seen the Copelemurs on the charts before. Interesting. Is there a cladogram for this group? Whether the trend appears gradual or punctuated depends on where the branch is connected to the main trunk. What I don't like is that the author connected the red line to the mean of the different groups, but just made a basically straight line for the gradualism chart.
In both interpretations the first branch appears to die out or get reabsorbed, and I (not surprisingly) favor the reabsorbed with new mutations added back into the main population. Also I see that the whole population shifted to the left as this occurred, which is another reason why I see reabsorbtion as a viable option here. I think you make a good case for that.
One of my dad's pet comments was that evolution in general and human evolution in particular displayed mosaic evolution, essentially where parts evolve rather than the whole individual. He thought it was underplayed in the field. I think it is just a difficult and complex thing to nail down. We are just getting to the level where we can handle the kind of data needed to understand population, community and genetic networks. It's an exciting time to be a scientist!
Or am I smoking some kind of crack? Naw, Medical marijuana maybe? HBD Edited by herebedragons, : No reason given.Whoever calls me ignorant shares my own opinion. Sorrowfully and tacitly I recognize my ignorance, when I consider how much I lack of what my mind in its craving for knowledge is sighing for... I console myself with the consideration that this belongs to our common nature. - Francesco Petrarca "Nothing is easier than to persuade people who want to be persuaded and already believe." - another Petrarca gem. Ignorance is a most formidable opponent rivaled only by arrogance; but when the two join forces, one is all but invincible.
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RAZD Member (Idle past 1427 days) Posts: 20714 From: the other end of the sidewalk Joined:
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I don't think I have seen the Copelemurs on the charts before. Interesting. Is there a cladogram for this group? ... Sadly I don't have one, however I do have a link to the Gingrich paper where the grapic (afaik) originates (which is sort of like a cladogram bedded in the spatial\temporal matrix):
SYSTEMATICS, PHYLOGENY, AND EVOLUTION OF EARLY EOCENE ADAPIDAE (MAMMALIA, PRIMATES) IN NORTH AMERICA by Philip D. Gingerich and Elwyn L. Simons. see Page 32 for the graphic. There is also a long discussion of Copelemur and Pelycodus and their distinctions and relationships. Note that names used there differ from those used elsewhere (a not uncommon thing) and he gives reasons for these changes. The abstract is a good starting point:
quote: Note the discussion of the speciation event and divergence near the top of the graphic with one branch getting smaller while the other continues to get larger: "... Samples of species from successively higher stratigraphic horizons are progressively larger, until the second lineage of Pelycodus appears, after which one lineage begins to decrease in size while the other continues to increase. This is interpreted as a probable result of character divergence in body size to minimize competition between the two sympatric species. ... " -- this would be an example of the reinforcement selection you mentioned earlier. I also like where he says " ... The fossil record is now sufficiently complete that the boundary between Pelycodus and Notharctus is necessarily arbitrary. ... " as this is typical of what happens as more and more fossils are found. One can hope that a more complete picture\record of Copelemur and it's relationship to Pelycodus will also emerge with more fossils are found. This was written in 1977 after all. Scary thing, when doing a google on this one of the results was an EvC posting ... by me ...
Naw, Medical marijuana maybe? Painkillers for recent nasal basal cell carcinoma (non-malignant) surgery & skin graft (a friend says it looks like a nose piercing that went bad ). Enjoy Edited by RAZD, : addedby our ability to understand Rebel☮American☆Zen☯Deist ... to learn ... to think ... to live ... to laugh ... to share. Join the effort to solve medical problems, AIDS/HIV, Cancer and more with Team EvC! (click)
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RAZD Member (Idle past 1427 days) Posts: 20714 From: the other end of the sidewalk Joined: |
In this case, mating is not random but shows signs of inbreeding (the proportion of heterozygotes is reduced). We can estimate the inbreeding coefficient by F = (HO-HE)/HO where HO is heterozygotes observed and HE is heterozygotes expected. In this case F = 0.10 which means 10% of the population is autozygous. Evidence does not match expectation, it is the expectation (random mating) that is wrong.
Right, so we start with an allele frequency and determine the genotype. The population may then be subjected to selection which will remove an uneven proportion of alleles, ie. one allele will increase in frequency, the other will decrease. Selection models are kinda involved and I won't take time on it here, but let's say that the genotype aa is advantageous and the allele q increases from 0.10 to 0.15 because of selection. We now need to do the H-W calculation again to determine the genotypes of the next generation AA = 0.723, Aa = 0.255, aa = 0.022. So, an increase of 50% in allele frequency resulted in a 120% increase in 'aa' genotype frequency. Now if we consider {a} to have been a previously rare allele that is selected at a same normal frequency in the formation of the sub-population as it moved into a new habitat, ... and that it was beneficial there and increased 120% in a generation, ... but now the sub-population rejoins the parent population where {A} is still ~90%, and where {a} already existed as a selection neutral or mildly deleterious allele (hence the original rareness), ... this would not result in a significant rise of q in this recombined parent population, but one verging on stochastic variation within the large population from generation to generation. There would be virtually no difference in fitness of {aa} in this large population, no reason for selection to favor it this time around, no reason for it to expand in that population. So I don't see an existing, if rare, allele causing a significant change to the combined species population. There was a cause (selection, etc) that it was rare in the original population, and that cause would continue to operate. At best it could result in population subdivision if that new habitat continues to be used. This would act to keep {a} in the overall population, but still not become a major player in the overall population and not lead to takeover from the original population with a derived population. And even if taken to an extreme where the {a} allele achieves 90% frequency in the sub-population, when the populations rejoined the {aa} genotype could not be genetically incompatible with the parent population as it already exists there in small numbers (all things being equal and {aa} not being detrimental there). Certainly it cannot provide greater fitness in the original habitat as it already existed there. So I do not see this type of placid isolation and return changing things for the species population. But if we consider {a} to be derived by mutation in the small population then the picture changes. It enjoys faster selection in the small population and then when they rejoin the parent population (where q = 0) they would have an effect on the population. If the {aa} form is beneficial in the original habitat then it would continue to rise in frequency. It may or may not take over the whole population, depending on fitness. Enjoy Edited by RAZD, : clrtyby our ability to understand Rebel☮American☆Zen☯Deist ... to learn ... to think ... to live ... to laugh ... to share. Join the effort to solve medical problems, AIDS/HIV, Cancer and more with Team EvC! (click)
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RAZD Member (Idle past 1427 days) Posts: 20714 From: the other end of the sidewalk Joined:
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See Extent of Mutational Capability, message 109 and Message 110, Message 113 and Message 123 -- recent evidence of four more recent Homo species interweaving behavior.
Also see A frog with a doubled genome -- interweaving evolution in frogs. So I would not be surprised to see more evidence of periods following population isolation, with subsequent isolated evolution of different traits, being occasionally interrupted by brief rejoining, with hybridizing and mixing of those traits, before reproductive incompatibility arises. The isolation can be due to geography\ecology and it can be due to different mating preferences in sub-populations. Certainly this means that speciation is not as cut and dried as was previously thought. If we consider that reproductive incompatibility is not a necessary aspect of the evolution of isolated sub-populations, that there is no selection pressure for that to occur, we end up with a lower bar for speciation -- mating preferences. The more the subspecies evolve different traits, the more members of each subspecies will prefer mates from their own population over the other, and then it becomes less likely that interbreeding occurs, but not ruled out. When the difference between such species reaches the same degree of differences that are used for phyletic (linear) speciation we are then able to call them different species. From Introduction to Evolution:
quote: This adds an amount of uncertainty and arbitrariness to divergent speciation (ibid):
quote: Perhaps instead we should say: " ... such that interbreeding becomes rare, then the formation of new species can be deemed to have occurred. ... " Enjoyby our ability to understand Rebel☮American☆Zen☯Deist ... to learn ... to think ... to live ... to laugh ... to share. Join the effort to solve medical problems, AIDS/HIV, Cancer and more with Team EvC! (click) |
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