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Author Topic:   Another one that hurts
Stile
Member
Posts: 4295
From: Ontario, Canada
Joined: 12-02-2004


(1)
Message 337 of 508 (773346)
11-30-2015 10:35 AM
Reply to: Message 335 by Tangle
11-30-2015 10:01 AM


Tangle writes:
I do say that we should criticise the bad ideas that some Muslims have. I also say that we should enforce the laws that exist that are designed to control some of those bad ideas.
You (Modulous) seem to think that these are insignificant things.
I don't get that.
I see that you and Modulous both agree on your statement I've quoted.
Then I see that you say if we don't put this as the highest-priority-ever... then we're all horrible people.
Where I see Mod saying that if we keep the priority of this at the same level we had it at a month ago... high, but there's still lots of other things that are higher... then we can move forward in this fight against terrorism.
I agree with Mod that this isn't an issue to take an extreme stance on.
The whole problem is that some people are already taking an extreme stance and causing these horrible things in the first place. You can't solve this problem by taking an extreme stance in response. That only serves to fuel the fire they feed on.
Mod's not saying things are insignificant. He's just saying they're not-as-significant-as-some-knee-jerk-reactions-are-yelling-about.
That doesn't make them insignificant.
That doesn't even make them less significant.
They're still very significant and very important.
Just not extremely so.
This is the attitude shift that has to happen to combat this problem. The extreme-stance response doesn't work. It hasn't worked for the last 10-15 years.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 335 by Tangle, posted 11-30-2015 10:01 AM Tangle has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 338 by Tangle, posted 11-30-2015 11:21 AM Stile has replied

  
Stile
Member
Posts: 4295
From: Ontario, Canada
Joined: 12-02-2004


Message 339 of 508 (773364)
11-30-2015 12:33 PM
Reply to: Message 338 by Tangle
11-30-2015 11:21 AM


Tangle writes:
I fail to see what could be more extreme that attacking a major western city and putting all of Europe on high alert.
I agree... but only in my context
Which I think is causing a lot of communication problems.
The problem was not extreme in the sense of how many people died. This is trivially true.
The problem was certainly extreme in the sense of how our illusion of safety was attacked and destroyed.
These two things seem to be getting mixed up and cross-talked and it's causing a lack of focus.
People are rightfully and understandably shaken and upset by having our safety threatened and torn away.
But we have to be careful to focus on that issue. Or else we'll end up spending our efforts on other problems that are less harmful. Such a waste of time will only lead to more problems threatening our safety.
Bringing up deaths and the pain and suffering involved is part of what happened.
But the deaths and physical pain/suffering involved, although horrible in it's own right, is not very extreme on the scale of such subjects. In fact, it's kind of on the lower end of the scale.
The more we dwell on the deaths and physical pain/suffering... the less we dwell on the actual issue at hand that needs correcting.
We should be honest about being scared and angry that the safety we thought we were free to enjoy everyday is not quite what we thought it was.
Understanding that this is the real issue will help us focus on the right solutions.
We deserve to have such safety.
Not "we" as in "Major Western Cities"... but "we" as in "people"... everyone.
Most of what I'm referring to is about solving the problems on our home ground by education and reform.
Seems like a great place to focus efforts to me.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 338 by Tangle, posted 11-30-2015 11:21 AM Tangle has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 340 by Tangle, posted 11-30-2015 12:53 PM Stile has replied

  
Stile
Member
Posts: 4295
From: Ontario, Canada
Joined: 12-02-2004


Message 343 of 508 (773376)
11-30-2015 3:23 PM
Reply to: Message 340 by Tangle
11-30-2015 12:53 PM


Tangle writes:
I'm fully aware of the differences but reject the comparison.
Yes, you obviously do. But you haven't said why you do. Is it just to argue? Because you feel hurt? Do you have a good reason?
It's a simple fact of real life that a tragedy close to home has far more impact than one far away. That can't be wished away, it's the human conditional response to danger, risk and our ability to empathise.
No, it can't be wished away.
But, as you hinted at in your previous message, it certainly can be educated away.
That's what intelligence and education does... it helps us deal with and control our instinctual responses.
It's this spurious equalising argument I object to.
Of course the world would be a better place if wealth, freedom opportunity and democracy was everywhere. 'We' have made a good stab at improving 'our' lives through it and 'they' are trying to take it from us. That's 'their' stated mission through holy jihad.
Ha ha... "spurious equalising"
Wanting to treat all people equally is spurious?
That's all I said... all people deserve to have a safe place.
Of course, those who attack others forfeit such a right of their own. But we all start out with the same basic rights. Or we should, anyway.
But, again, what sort of sliding slope to you suggest if you don't think we should treat each other equally?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 340 by Tangle, posted 11-30-2015 12:53 PM Tangle has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 345 by Tangle, posted 12-01-2015 4:28 AM Stile has replied

  
Stile
Member
Posts: 4295
From: Ontario, Canada
Joined: 12-02-2004


Message 346 of 508 (773407)
12-01-2015 9:39 AM
Reply to: Message 345 by Tangle
12-01-2015 4:28 AM


Tangle writes:
Of course not. You miss the point.
I don't think I do.
Thank-you for the response.
Everything you just stated here agrees with everything I stated in my first two posts Message 337 and Message 339.
We seem to agree completely.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 345 by Tangle, posted 12-01-2015 4:28 AM Tangle has not replied

  
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