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Author Topic:   Another one that hurts
dronestar
Member
Posts: 1379
From: usa
Joined: 11-19-2008


Message 466 of 508 (773740)
12-08-2015 12:50 PM
Reply to: Message 461 by 1.61803
12-08-2015 11:05 AM


Re: bump
1.61803 writes:

Yes and that because of past moral transgressions of a state or country or group they should not automatically be forfeit any consideration or credibility.

Some states (most?, all?) don't allow convicted sociopathic axe murderers to vote or serve on jury duties. Do you think that is also a mistake? Should sociopaths be allowed to influence your society/culture? Should convicted child rapists be allowed to teach in school?

Did you think through your above stance at all?


This message is a reply to:
 Message 461 by 1.61803, posted 12-08-2015 11:05 AM 1.61803 has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 479 by 1.61803, posted 12-09-2015 10:19 AM dronestar has responded

  
dronestar
Member
Posts: 1379
From: usa
Joined: 11-19-2008


Message 467 of 508 (773741)
12-08-2015 12:57 PM
Reply to: Message 457 by xongsmith
12-08-2015 1:21 AM


Re: bump
drone writes:

From what catastrophic support of dictators, terrorists, or destabilized democracies does the West hone their moral highness from?

xongsmith writes:

Perhaps yours, yourself.

My catastrophic support of dictators, terrorists, or destabilized democracies? . . . My?

Sorry Xong, from the context of my original argument, I am not understanding your reply.

(maybe today was the wrong day for me to stop sniffing glue.)

Edited by dronestar, : clarity, added quote


This message is a reply to:
 Message 457 by xongsmith, posted 12-08-2015 1:21 AM xongsmith has acknowledged this reply

  
Jon
Inactive Member


Message 468 of 508 (773747)
12-08-2015 1:41 PM
Reply to: Message 464 by Tangle
12-08-2015 11:20 AM


Re: "You ain't no Muslim, bruv."
It's lying, plain and simple.

It's not powerful; it's cowardly and pathetic.


Love your enemies!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 464 by Tangle, posted 12-08-2015 11:20 AM Tangle has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 469 by Tangle, posted 12-08-2015 1:45 PM Jon has responded

  
Tangle
Member
Posts: 5166
From: UK
Joined: 10-07-2011
Member Rating: 2.5


Message 469 of 508 (773748)
12-08-2015 1:45 PM
Reply to: Message 468 by Jon
12-08-2015 1:41 PM


Re: "You ain't no Muslim, bruv."
Jon writes:

It's lying, plain and simple.
It's not powerful; it's cowardly and pathetic.

Explain yourself sir.


Je suis Charlie. Je suis Ahmed. Je suis Juif. Je suis Parisien.

Life, don't talk to me about life - Marvin the Paranoid Android

"Science adjusts it's views based on what's observed.
Faith is the denial of observation so that Belief can be preserved."
- Tim Minchin, in his beat poem, Storm.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 468 by Jon, posted 12-08-2015 1:41 PM Jon has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 470 by Jon, posted 12-08-2015 7:10 PM Tangle has responded

  
Jon
Inactive Member


Message 470 of 508 (773777)
12-08-2015 7:10 PM
Reply to: Message 469 by Tangle
12-08-2015 1:45 PM


Re: "You ain't no Muslim, bruv."
I think I've made my thoughts on this matter pretty clear already in other threads here, so I'll be brief:
  1. Islam was founded by the evil rapist and warlord Muhammad (his list of 'accomplishments' is actually much larger). Muslims idolize this man; indeed, he is the most important figure in their belief system after Allah himself. Groups like ISIS will continue to exist because those groups are right: their interpretation of Islam is not only in line with what is written in their scriptures, but carries on their great prophet's mission of subjecting the world to a backwards, oppressive theocracy. That said, the 'bruv' was an excellent Muslim.
  2. If folks like Mr. "You ain't no Muslim" want to really prove they are moderate, liberal, and enlightened, they need to throw off Islam; denounce that bastard prophet of theirs as the wicked and despicable piece of shit that he really was.
Hence the lie and him being a pathetic coward.

Edited by Jon, : No reason given.


Love your enemies!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 469 by Tangle, posted 12-08-2015 1:45 PM Tangle has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 471 by vimesey, posted 12-09-2015 2:29 AM Jon has responded
 Message 472 by Tangle, posted 12-09-2015 3:26 AM Jon has responded
 Message 480 by ringo, posted 12-09-2015 10:48 AM Jon has responded

  
vimesey
Member
Posts: 888
From: Birmingham, England
Joined: 09-21-2011


(1)
Message 471 of 508 (773780)
12-09-2015 2:29 AM
Reply to: Message 470 by Jon
12-08-2015 7:10 PM


Re: "You ain't no Muslim, bruv."
And how many Muslims have you actually sat down, spoken with, and listened to, in order to arrive at your understanding about their faith, their beliefs and their world view ?

Could there be any greater conceit, than for someone to believe that the universe has to be simple enough for them to be able to understand it ?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 470 by Jon, posted 12-08-2015 7:10 PM Jon has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 474 by Jon, posted 12-09-2015 5:19 AM vimesey has responded

    
Tangle
Member
Posts: 5166
From: UK
Joined: 10-07-2011
Member Rating: 2.5


(1)
Message 472 of 508 (773783)
12-09-2015 3:26 AM
Reply to: Message 470 by Jon
12-08-2015 7:10 PM


Re: "You ain't no Muslim, bruv."
Jon writes:


If folks like Mr. "You ain't no Muslim" want to really prove they are moderate, liberal, and enlightened, they need to throw off Islam; denounce that bastard prophet of theirs as the wicked and despicable piece of shit that he really was.

Hence the lie and him being a pathetic coward.

Well that's pretty damned ignorant and idiotic. This thread seems to bring out the worst in people.


Je suis Charlie. Je suis Ahmed. Je suis Juif. Je suis Parisien.

Life, don't talk to me about life - Marvin the Paranoid Android

"Science adjusts it's views based on what's observed.
Faith is the denial of observation so that Belief can be preserved."
- Tim Minchin, in his beat poem, Storm.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 470 by Jon, posted 12-08-2015 7:10 PM Jon has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 473 by Phat, posted 12-09-2015 3:58 AM Tangle has not yet responded
 Message 475 by Jon, posted 12-09-2015 5:24 AM Tangle has not yet responded

  
Phat
Member
Posts: 10087
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.3


Message 473 of 508 (773784)
12-09-2015 3:58 AM
Reply to: Message 472 by Tangle
12-09-2015 3:26 AM


Re: "You ain't no Muslim, bruv."
If we said as Jon suggested, They would make us give up Jesus.

Chance as a real force is a myth. It has no basis in reality and no place in scientific inquiry. For science and philosophy to continue to advance in knowledge, chance must be demythologized once and for all. RC Sproul
"A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." Mark Twain

This message is a reply to:
 Message 472 by Tangle, posted 12-09-2015 3:26 AM Tangle has not yet responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 476 by Jon, posted 12-09-2015 5:36 AM Phat has acknowledged this reply

  
Jon
Inactive Member


Message 474 of 508 (773786)
12-09-2015 5:19 AM
Reply to: Message 471 by vimesey
12-09-2015 2:29 AM


Re: "You ain't no Muslim, bruv."
Plenty. And why do you want to defend people's idolizing and following of a piece of shit like Muhammad?

Love your enemies!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 471 by vimesey, posted 12-09-2015 2:29 AM vimesey has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 478 by vimesey, posted 12-09-2015 9:03 AM Jon has not yet responded

  
Jon
Inactive Member


Message 475 of 508 (773787)
12-09-2015 5:24 AM
Reply to: Message 472 by Tangle
12-09-2015 3:26 AM


Re: "You ain't no Muslim, bruv."
So you have no real objection then other than to implicitly defend folks who worship rapist theocratic warlords and to refer to people who think it'd be better if they didn't as idiots.

Love your enemies!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 472 by Tangle, posted 12-09-2015 3:26 AM Tangle has not yet responded

  
Jon
Inactive Member


Message 476 of 508 (773788)
12-09-2015 5:36 AM
Reply to: Message 473 by Phat
12-09-2015 3:58 AM


Re: "You ain't no Muslim, bruv."
Huh? Why would anyone make you give up Jesus?

I don't think we should make anyone give up their incestuous xenophobic prophet. But I also think we need to be honest with ourselves and others in pointing out just who it is that's being idolized by supposedly moderate and well-adjusted Muslims.

I mean, really, what the fuck is anyone anyone doing following this guy?


Love your enemies!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 473 by Phat, posted 12-09-2015 3:58 AM Phat has acknowledged this reply

  
Percy
Member
Posts: 16178
From: New Hampshire
Joined: 12-23-2000
Member Rating: 3.0


Message 477 of 508 (773790)
12-09-2015 8:04 AM


Another Plea for Constructive, Informed Discussion
Generally the opposite of constructive, informed discussion would be unsupported assertions and/or short one sentence responses.

Again, I'm not playing a moderator role in this thread, so no one has to listen to me, but the thread has been fairly measured up to this point, and it would be nice if that could continue.

--Percy


    
vimesey
Member
Posts: 888
From: Birmingham, England
Joined: 09-21-2011


Message 478 of 508 (773792)
12-09-2015 9:03 AM
Reply to: Message 474 by Jon
12-09-2015 5:19 AM


Re: "You ain't no Muslim, bruv."
Let's have a look at the friendly neighbourhood Christian God - someone who ordered a bloke to be stoned to death for picking up sticks on the sabbath - someone who ordered his followers to commit genocide - someone who himself carried out the most comprehensive genocide you could ever imagine.

This is the same God who Christians nowadays (or at least the majority of them) worship as a kind, loving and forgiving God. In your view, should they also acknowledge that they are worshiping a sadistic, cruel and power-hungry overlord, and renounce their faith in order to be seen to be leading a decent life ?


Could there be any greater conceit, than for someone to believe that the universe has to be simple enough for them to be able to understand it ?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 474 by Jon, posted 12-09-2015 5:19 AM Jon has not yet responded

    
1.61803
Member
Posts: 2725
From: Lone Star State USA
Joined: 02-19-2004
Member Rating: 3.4


Message 479 of 508 (773794)
12-09-2015 10:19 AM
Reply to: Message 466 by dronestar
12-08-2015 12:50 PM


Re: bump
dronestar writes:

Some states (most?, all?) don't allow convicted sociopathic axe murderers to vote or serve on jury duties. Do you think that is also a mistake? Should sociopaths be allowed to influence your society/culture? Should convicted child rapists be allowed to teach in school?

I thought we where talking about countries, cultures doing evil things in the name of hegemony.

I thought your point was that since the U.S. and it's allies are guilty of invading, bombing and killing then when the shoe is on the other foot ISIL is justified in they're actions in turnabout is fair play.

A nations past sins do not mean the country forfeits the possibility of redemption.

The U.S. nuked Hiroshima . Do we now forfeit any credibility to speak out now against doing such a thing?

The U.S. has conducted Syphilis trials in the past,violating subjects confidence and health. Doe that mean the U.S. must now be looked upon as incapable of conducting honest clinical trails with subject consent, safety being crucial?

I get the feeling you think the U.S. and it's allies are deserved of ISILS brutality and are reaping what they sowed.

I am reminded of this poem for some reason.

quote:
"No man is an island, entire of itself; every man is a piece of the continent, a part of the main. If a clod be washed away by the sea, Europe is the less, as well as if a promontory were, as well as if a manor of thy friend's or of thine own were: any man's death diminishes me, because I am involved in mankind, and therefore never send to know for whom the bells tolls; it tolls for thee."
~John Donne

Take care dronestar.


"You were not there for the beginning. You will not be there for the end. Your knowledge of what is going on can only be superficial and relative" William S. Burroughs

This message is a reply to:
 Message 466 by dronestar, posted 12-08-2015 12:50 PM dronestar has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 481 by NoNukes, posted 12-09-2015 11:05 AM 1.61803 has responded
 Message 485 by dronestar, posted 12-09-2015 3:33 PM 1.61803 has responded

  
ringo
Member
Posts: 13889
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005
Member Rating: 1.7


Message 480 of 508 (773796)
12-09-2015 10:48 AM
Reply to: Message 470 by Jon
12-08-2015 7:10 PM


Re: "You ain't no Muslim, bruv."
Jon writes:

1.Islam was founded by the evil rapist and warlord Muhammad....


The US was founded by the evil warlord George Washington. Do we condemn all present-day Americans because of that?
This message is a reply to:
 Message 470 by Jon, posted 12-08-2015 7:10 PM Jon has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 484 by Jon, posted 12-09-2015 1:44 PM ringo has responded

  
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